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New spells, equipment, monsters, heroes and a few new rules

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Re: New spells, equipment, monsters, heroes and a few new ru

Postby Templar » Tuesday March 13th, 2012 5:55pm

torilen wrote:Or is that what you were saying...that no shield should have a better price, since you're giving up more?

Precisely, though the question is how much better. Remember that you also have to pay for the shield, so if you can only afford a weapon, it might as well be a two handed weapon...
torilen wrote:Also - would you differentiate between a thrown weapon and a simple range weapon (crossbow, sling, bow, etc.)
I would say that a range weapon should have a higher price that a thrown weapon...

Yes, I also feel that there is a major difference. Of course a proper ranged weapon is better than a thrown weapon at range since it reaches longer and have no chance of breaking (with my rules). On the other hand, a thrown weapon is of use in close combat, so... :?

After exploring different value systems I have so far come up with two sets of modifiers. My initial one:
Allows no shield -40%; Diagonal attack +20%; Thrown weapon +20%; One less defence +20%; Two less defence +60%;
Price step: 25 gold
This gives the correct cost for the reference weapons. Here are some other prices...
Spear: 175g
Scythe: 150g
Sledgehammer: 300g
Longsword: 300g
Greatsword: 525g

Here is an alternative set of modifiers which gives the right reference prices.
Allows no shield -47%; Diagonal attack +28%; Thrown weapon +22%; One less defence +15%; Two less defence +50%
Price step: 10 gold
Spear: 180g
Scythe: 130g
Sledgehammer: 260g
Longsword: 320g
Greatsword: 610g

I still like my first option more though... :mrgreen:
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Re: New spells, equipment, monsters, heroes and a few new ru

Postby Daedalus » Thursday March 15th, 2012 7:13pm

@Templar-
I now get your math (2-H only reduces costs), thanks for clarifying. I like the system.
Looking at your list, I came to 2 conclusions:

First, I'd change the 40% cost reduction for no shield use to a flat 50 gc savings. The rationalization is loosing the use of a shield is a constant not tied to increasing attack dice cost. Other abilities should stay at a percentage (mostly 20%). It makes sense that a diagonal, 3-Attack-dice weapon costs more than a weapon that only deals 2 Attack dice diagonally--the effect of the extra dice combines with the special attack benefits. The same applies to thrown damage or armor breaking damage. But losing the use of a shield is no worse of a penalty, whether the Attack dice is 2, 3, or even 4. The effectiveness of the attack rolls are independent of the no-shield restriction, as the dice rolls are seperate actions.

Second, I feel the numbers for 4 Attack dice weapons are too fiddly, requiring unecessary adjustment. Instead of making a 400 gc Battle-Axe the starting point, try doubling the 250 gc, base weapon-cost of a 3 Attack-dice weapon--just as the 2 Attack-dice, base weapon-cost was doubled from 125 gc. This sets a 4 Attack-dice weapon at 500 gc--more consistent and simpler to convert percentages from. From there, applying the constant -50 gc cost to a Battle Axe for the limitaion of no shield-use gives the weapon a cost of 450 gc. I feel it's close enough to the equipment card cost of 400 gc--after all, the NA Armory set the Battle Axe cost at 450 gc, anyway.

Hope this helps. At least it helped me to notice a possible error in my own Armory table. :)
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Re: New spells, equipment, monsters, heroes and a few new ru

Postby Templar » Saturday March 17th, 2012 6:33pm

Daedalus wrote:@Templar-
I now get your math (2-H only reduces costs), thanks for clarifying. I like the system.
Looking at your list, I came to 2 conclusions:

First, I'd change the 40% cost reduction for no shield use to a flat 50 gc savings. The rationalization is loosing the use of a shield is a constant not tied to increasing attack dice cost. Other abilities should stay at a percentage (mostly 20%). It makes sense that a diagonal, 3-Attack-dice weapon costs more than a weapon that only deals 2 Attack dice diagonally--the effect of the extra dice combines with the special attack benefits. The same applies to thrown damage or armor breaking damage. But losing the use of a shield is no worse of a penalty, whether the Attack dice is 2, 3, or even 4. The effectiveness of the attack rolls are independent of the no-shield restriction, as the dice rolls are seperate actions.

Second, I feel the numbers for 4 Attack dice weapons are too fiddly, requiring unecessary adjustment. Instead of making a 400 gc Battle-Axe the starting point, try doubling the 250 gc, base weapon-cost of a 3 Attack-dice weapon--just as the 2 Attack-dice, base weapon-cost was doubled from 125 gc. This sets a 4 Attack-dice weapon at 500 gc--more consistent and simpler to convert percentages from. From there, applying the constant -50 gc cost to a Battle Axe for the limitaion of no shield-use gives the weapon a cost of 450 gc. I feel it's close enough to the equipment card cost of 400 gc--after all, the NA Armory set the Battle Axe cost at 450 gc, anyway.

Hope this helps. At least it helped me to notice a possible error in my own Armory table. :)

This definitely got thinking about new pricing options. I did't even consider a set number as a modifyer...this opens new possibilites for sure! Good input Daedalus |_P

I'll dive right back in and see what I can come up with :D
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Re: New spells, equipment, monsters, heroes and a few new ru

Postby Templar » Tuesday March 20th, 2012 5:32am

Changing the subject for a while...

When I design the quests for my questpack (to go with my new monsters and rules, and such and such) I think of the evil wizard as an opponent rather than the game master. I think it is my competitive side that shines through in this regard, for better or for worse depending on point of view. Anyway, my basic thought is that the campaign could, like in sports :geek: , be treated as a series of matches that results in points for the victorious side. Obviously, the heroes can not win if they fail to complete the mission. Similarly, the evil wizards goal should be to make the mission fail and kill as many heroes as possible whilst doing so. :mrgreen:

So, for each of my 10 basic quest (not the final quest) the scoring would be as follows:
Mission completed and all heroes survived: Heroes 3 points - Evil wizard 0 points.
Mission completed but with casualties: Heroes 2 points - Evil wizard 1 point.
Mission has failed but all heroes survived: Heroes 1 point - Evil wizard 2 points.
Mission has failed and casualties taken: Heroes 0 points - Evil wizard 3 points.

For the heroes to win the campaign they have to rack up at least 20 points by quest 10, and then complete the final mission regardless of casualties. Depending on how many points the evil wizard ends up with, he gets different bonuses for the boss-quest. :twisted:

Is this a good idea? Is it flawed from the beginning?
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Re: New spells, equipment, monsters, heroes and a few new ru

Postby Thrawn » Tuesday March 20th, 2012 5:35pm

I'm not a fan of "competitive" gamemasters for any RPG style game, even board games. Gamemasters have too much of an advantage anyway, and it's really their job to make sure that everyone else is having fun, and it's hard to do that while you are going the extra mile to slaughter them.

I do think having results of early quests affecting end quests is a good thing though. I'm all for continuity like that, so the implementation is alright. I'd like to say that in like 200 quests, I've only had one full party wipe I believe, although I've seen dozens of deaths. I think the heroes actually being able to overcome the obstacles is a key feature of the game.


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Re: New spells, equipment, monsters, heroes and a few new ru

Postby Templar » Thursday March 22nd, 2012 5:43pm

Thrawn wrote:I'm not a fan of "competitive" gamemasters for any RPG style game, even board games. Gamemasters have too much of an advantage anyway, and it's really their job to make sure that everyone else is having fun, and it's hard to do that while you are going the extra mile to slaughter them.

I do think having results of early quests affecting end quests is a good thing though. I'm all for continuity like that, so the implementation is alright. I'd like to say that in like 200 quests, I've only had one full party wipe I believe, although I've seen dozens of deaths. I think the heroes actually being able to overcome the obstacles is a key feature of the game.

I hear ya...Game mastering is definitely preferable on most occations, but it takes the right people for it to work. Also, I find that the sense of beeing a team of heroes strengthens when there is an outspoken opponent. With my current playing friends, this seems like the more preferable option.

As long as everyone is happy goin into the quest, it hardly matters anyway :mrgreen:

Although we might disagree somewhat on the first point, it is nice to hear that you like the point system. It is, as you said, a special feel to when each quest matters in the long run! 8-)
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Re: New spells, equipment, monsters, heroes and a few new ru

Postby Templar » Sunday May 27th, 2012 3:33pm

My playtesters have noted that some of my spells have a lot of text, and that it takes a rather long time to decide which spell groups to choose.

So, to cut down on preparation time, I've made a crib sheet. I categorized each spell group between Very offensive/Offensive/Balanced/Defensive/Very defensive (2 each) and describes each spell's effect with a few lines, after which the practical meaning is summarized.

Short spell descriptions

Fire Spells (Very Offensive)
Ball of Flame: Intense heat burns the victim beyond recognition. Direct damage.
Fire of Wrath: Vengeful flames seek out and surround the victim. Direct Damage.
Courage: All of the targets fear and caution disappear. Boosts player, several turns.
Death Spells (Very offensive)*
Hunger: The victims feel week and unfocused. Weakens victims, area effect, One turn.
Age: The victim is aged half a lifetime in an instant. Direct damage but can affect the caster.
Plague: Disease starts to spread between the victim and individuals in the vicinity. Direct damage but can affect the caster and other players, several turns.
Light Spells (Offensive)
Portable Sun: A bright sphere is created to help all players see their opponents better. Boosts players, one turn.
Spear of Light: A concentrated light beam penetrates all in its path. Direct damage, area effect.
Teleportation: The target player disappears with a BAMF! and reappears somewhere else. Affects movement, one turn.
Necromancy (Offensive)*
Raise Skeleton: One recent killed monster is reanimated as a skeleton. Creates creature, several rounds.
Raise Zombies: Up to two recently killed monsters are reanimated as zombies. Creates creatures, one turn.
Soul Theft: The caster attempts to suck out some of the victim's soul from its body. Direct Damage.
Air Spells (balanced)
Genie: A magical djinn appears to make way for his master, or attack an enemy. Choice of effect.
Tempest: A local storm cloud is formed around the paralysed victim. The victim loses a turn.
Swift Wind: Tailwind helps the target to move faster. Affects movement, one turn.
Witchcraft (balanced)
Forked Lightning: Powerful electric sparks spreads from the caster’s fingers. Direct damage Area Effect.
Luck: The target finds that all manoeuvres he or se attempts leads to surprisingly good outcomes. Boosts player, several rounds.
Familiar: A creature from another dimension is summoned to help his master to carry equipment or remove traps. Choice of effect.
Water Enchantment (Defensive)
Sleep: The victim has to struggle to stay conscious. Weaken monsters, several rounds.
Veil of Mist: A vapour screen covers the targets movement. Affects movement, one turn.
Water of Healing: Life-giving water gives new strength to the target. Heals Player.
Art of Transformation (Defensive)
Wolf form: The target turns into an uncontrollable werewolf. Boosts player but can affect other players, several rounds.
Ether Shift: The target is transferred into the supernatural plane, as the body turns into ghost plasma. All movement is slowed, but is no longer affected by worldly things. Boosts player, several turns.
Regeneration: A healing wave spreads through nearby heroes. Heals Players, Area Effect.
Earth Spells (Very defensive)
Rock Skin: The player's skin becomes as hard as granite. Boosts player, several turns.
Heal Body: Invigorating energies of the earth flows through the target. Heals Player.
Pass Through Rock: The target shifts in and out through walls and stone blocks as if they were air. Affects movement, one turn.
Wilderness spells (Very Defensive)
Shadow Hunter: The target blends into the ambient shadows to increase battlefield control. Boosts player, weakens monsters, several turns.
Enhanced Senses: The eyesight, hearing, reflexes and sense of balance of the target is enhanced. Boosts player, several turns.
Haste: The target’s stamina is pushed to its peak. Affects movement, several turns.

*The death spells and necromancy spells can only influence living or recently killed monster, not the undead or the recently destroyed undead.


Any toughts or comments are most welcome.
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