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Copyright. :(

Discuss other HeroQuest expansion topics that do not fit into the above categories.

Re: Copyright. :(

Postby mitchiemasha » December 9th, 2015, 8:31 am

If I grab a picture from the net for my game it is no big deal as far as I am concerned.


But really it is a big deal. Yes we all do it but if you think about it it's nothing to do with selling for profit, it's some ones hard work and if they arn't offering it for free we shouldn't take it. Do I sell the bread I buy in the shop... No. well on the same premise, as I'm not selling it, am I allowed to take it!!!

We are experiencing pleasure from anothers work, reusing it, if it wasn't offered up by them for free, it is theft.


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Re: Copyright. :(

Postby Anderas » December 9th, 2015, 9:19 am

The difference is, if you take the bread it is gone from the shop. If you take the picture it is still there, so the theft aspect is more difficult to explain.

We are able to build batteries that contain 10x more energy than today's best. Imagine smartphones you recharge once per week and electric cars that make 3000 km before they are empty . We don't do it because the patents are in the hands of 10 different companies around the world who won't share with each other. On the other hand these patents wouldn't exist without this protection. So it really is a difficult topic.

I did ask Ulysses as in any way I can use the pictures for me and my four friends no matter the outcome, and maybe even share legally. I can't. OK.

Ulysses somehow also has its hands in super dungeon explore.


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Re: Copyright. :(

Postby Count Mohawk » December 9th, 2015, 10:04 am

Anderas wrote:The difference is, if you take the bread it is gone from the shop. If you take the picture it is still there, so the theft aspect is more difficult to explain.

We are able to build batteries that contain 10x more energy than today's best. Imagine smartphones you recharge once per week and electric cars that make 3000 km before they are empty . We don't do it because the patents are in the hands of 10 different companies around the world who won't share with each other. On the other hand these patents wouldn't exist without this protection. So it really is a difficult topic.

Well, of course patents wouldn't exist without patent protection.

You know, the US Constitution actually has a short section about copyrights and other intellectual property: Article I, Section 8, Clause 8, known as the Copyright Clause. It empowers Congress "To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries." The key word in the above clause is "limited"; i.e. inventors and authors get the first bite at the apple of profit for their inventions and creations, followed by the eventual passing of that material into the public domain for the advancement of the public. The concept still makes as much sense today as it did in 1789, although the definition of "limited" these days has been stretched pretty damn far - copyrights last for 70 years past the death of the author, while patents last for a more reasonable duration of 20 years (although in the tech world where new tech comes out practically every month, 20 years is still basically an eternity).

As far as "theft" goes, GK has the right of it - people pirate stuff because they don't want to pay the price being asked for a legit copy, or because they don't want to accept the restrictions on the use of that stuff set by the seller, such as region-locking. From the perspective of the seller, piracy is a net loss. But the actions many companies take to attack piracy actually do very little to stop it because their actions do not fix the issues that drive people to pirate to begin with. Taken from that perspective, whose fault is it really that piracy still exists?


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Re: Copyright. :(

Postby Big Bene » December 9th, 2015, 11:12 am

Goblin-King wrote:I think it's safe to say that image was created by pirates/sympathizers! It's very ironic. :lol:
This was my first thought, too.
Goblin-King wrote:That list cracks me up by the way. Especially "science"?!? wtf? I must have been on a break when that happened :lol:
You can find it all in the Electric Universe Thread.
It's worthwile to read through, even if you'd not be interested in the topic.

You will find that science is perfectly suited to cause friction between people - and it has been so throughout history. If you really take the time to read the historical documents, you'll find that the great changes of paradigms like the heliocentric model or evolution theory met much more (and much more under-the-belt) hostilities by the contemporary academics than by religious groups.
In the 20th century the tone of scientific debate has much calmed down, and relativity or quantum mechanics, wich are also big changes of paradigm, were accepted much faster than the two beforementioned historical examples. But even if the leading mainstream scientists accepted them (not at once and not without resistance, but relativelely fast), there was much resistance from the wider scientific community - school level scholars, science buffs, and just common people interested in the matter, plus the pseudoscience scene - persons who at least tried approach the world scientifically.
Many of the big heated discussions of today - nuclear energy, environment, the various schools of nutrition, including veganism etc., are about topics thar are scientific by their nature, but are treted in a purely ideological manner.
Have a look ;)


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Re: Copyright. :(

Postby Goblin-King » December 9th, 2015, 5:01 pm

Anderas wrote:The difference is, if you take the bread it is gone from the shop. If you take the picture it is still there, so the theft aspect is more difficult to explain.

That's why it's a specified form of theft, namely piracy.
You are still taking something that's not yours. It's really not that difficult a concept.

But again, I don't really think people don't know it's illegal... But oh boy, the rationalizing!

I agree with Mohawk in his postulate that the continued existence of massive piracy is somewhat the sellers own fault. Well of course it's the pirates' fault because they keep doing it... Buuuut...
I specifically think of the music, movie and games industries. They need to change to suit today's audience. It's expensive and troublesome.

A thing like Steam is really nice. I definitely started buying more games after I started using it. The fact that all your games are just digital and downloadable at anytime forever is really awesome.
No more scratched or lost CDs. No more missing CD-keys. No more physical storage.
But then again, I can't borrow a game from a friend (family sharing is a step in the right direction though).
And I can't sell a game when I'm done with it.
And then we have massive turds like U-play! Yeah! A game service within my game service. U-play can please go die in a fire.
And that's a big part of why games piracy is still a thing.


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Re: Copyright. :(

Postby Anderas » December 10th, 2015, 12:24 am

Don't know U-Play?
A steam-similar thing made me read digital books.
If i had kept each and any book i've ever read, my house would be full of books. Full. Full. REALLY full.
So i threw a lot away, a lot i lent somebody without ever asking to get it back, some i was exchanging with other people... that was nice.
Now i have a kindle. It is so practical, so... just better than a book, that i buy digital now. My Kindle keeps filling up, and the books don't take up space anywhere!


Then i have films. I am german. I live in france. Apart from the fact that most french films are just not worth looking, i want just want to see films in german. I want that my daughter watches TV in german so that she has a good reason and doesn't only learn french, but also german.
I wanted to buy dvds in german here. The old promise is that there are multiple languages on a dvd. Yes they have multiple languages. French, Dutch, English. No German.
I tried to download on the Pro7 group commercial channel in the net (i forgot the name) and was ready to pay. "This service is not available in your region".
I tried to buy dvds in german in amazon. "Not possible. You have to pay with a german bank account and the dvd will be delivered to germany"
I wanted Netflix in german. "Not in your region".

I am able to pay. I am willing to pay. I don't want to put up with the viruses and the legal harassment and the half hour lost each time when searching for a film illegally.
It's just _not_ possible.

I CAN NOT get german films in ANY WAY but illegally!

* I could pay a proxy server to fake a german address
* I could go to illegal download sites
* I could cheat amazon by using my old german bank account from the times before i came here and misuse the sister of my wife as real-post-proxy
* Or the offer is just not available.

And that's, in my eyes, a system-wide malfunction.
Europe has plenty of tiny countries. Not one of these is much more than 1000 km in diameter, many are a lot smaller. You get in a car, you drive in a straight line, you will cross two or three country borders a day, sometimes a lot more. Nationalism is really absurdly provincial here, laughable, only understandable because we have all the different languages.
I just can't understand why the big american film industry on the other side of the world is bothering to make this supertiny patchwork of rights-and-licenses along the national borders of europe, effectively reducing the market reach of each of their language fixed products.

I mean, it's a given in capitalism.
If you reduce the customer basis of a product, the price is getting lower. If you have a wide customer basis, the price has a chance to stay high for longer. In a digital world, for digital products, the price behaves pretty digital.
If you access the customer - he pays. You fail to access the customer - he doesn't pay. I can't pay. I would, normally. I am a potential customer, but i get excluded.

People who just don't want to or can't pay are not customers. You can't sell a Ferrari to a McDonald's burger builder, he just doesn't have the money, so he is not a customer of Ferrari. Ferrari fails to access this customer. They do it in express.

The film industry does it because... i don't know why.


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Re: Copyright. :(

Postby Count Mohawk » December 10th, 2015, 1:22 am

Anderas wrote:The film industry does it because... i don't know why.

Because it gives them control, and control can be converted to money. Also because the majority of cable companies and such have not yet figured out how to adapt to the technological reality of the 21st century aside from buying politicians and xeroxing them new laws to push through.

On a related note, can you imagine what the copyright crowd would say if libraries didn't exist and someone tried to invent one in this day and age??? Although the concept of the library itself is about 50 years out of date at the moment due to the rise of the internet. I'd just as soon see them all become evolve into something like internet cafes. The books can stay, though - people gotta have something to read.


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Re: Copyright. :(

Postby Daedalus » April 18th, 2016, 4:48 pm

torilen wrote:...I would just say tread carefully, and be aware that we need to put a good face forward as fans of HQ, so that others
will take us seriously and we don't rile up the original copyright owners.
(For example...I've read in a couple of places here that Gary Chalk can be easy going with his work and I believe has
allowed one or two people to use stuff, provided they are not selling commercially)

It sounds like you are referencing Project Aon, the Lone Wolf fan site for the online works. The Project Aon License conveniently explains things in layman's terms. Basically, you can download works there, including a lot of Gary Chalk art, for personal use only--no sharing online or any other kind of redistribution is permitted.

The group of authors and artists involved with the project appear to have little interest in policing fan infringement at this point. We can hope this continues, but it's a share-at-your-own-risk thing.
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