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Zargon/Morcar mini question...

Discuss compatible Miniatures, Miniature making/painting and share Miniatures you've made/painted.

Re: Zargon/Morcar mini question...

Postby j_dean80 » Wednesday June 28th, 2017 11:44pm

aaronAGN wrote:
j_dean80 wrote:Is that the Dragon Inn they are standing on?


If that's from DragonStrike, then yes.


Dragon Inn was a foldout from D&D magazine.
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Re: Zargon/Morcar mini question...

Postby Goblin-King » Thursday June 29th, 2017 1:58am

Thanks for the pictures.

Doom does seem to be on the larger side. I wouldn't use those minis for a new hero, but as an end boss I think he is just right.


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Re: Zargon/Morcar mini question...

Postby whitebeard » Thursday June 29th, 2017 9:42am

Yes, yes... "Everything is Awesome!"


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Re: Zargon/Morcar mini question...

Postby aaronAGN » Friday June 30th, 2017 8:54am

aaronAGN wrote:Another good choice
Image



THIS ONE IS BACK IN STOCK SHOULD ANYONE WANT IT

http://www.trollandtoad.com/p298264.html
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Re: Zargon/Morcar mini question...

Postby aaronAGN » Friday June 30th, 2017 11:36pm

Goblin-King wrote:Thanks for the pictures.

Doom does seem to be on the larger side. I wouldn't use those minis for a new hero, but as an end boss I think he is just right.


Unless I'm mistaken HeroQuest minis are 28mm and HeroClix minis are 30mm.
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Re: Zargon/Morcar mini question...

Postby knightkrawler » Saturday July 1st, 2017 1:31am

Those scale differences are not all that important as long as you can eyeball them yourself and see if the mini fits your taste and tolerance level.
I mix many scales (which are rather arbitrarily chosen by the manufacturers in the first place) and it works out for me as long as I like the figure itself and can put it in some plausible context.
28, 30, 32, even 35 mm... I am writing up two human races for my background world to accomodate for size differences, the one would be a typical modern 32 mm figure and the other a scrawnier 28 mm figure.

Sometimes a larger figure, let's say a Troll, advertised to be a certain scale, let's say 35 mm, won't fit the rest of the 35 mm figures because of the way he is posed and stares straight forward as if fighting another Troll instead of a 35 mm human. Get my line of thinking here?
That would be something that, to me, doesn't fit the prerogatives of HeroQuest proxy minis even though the figures are "in scale".
Doesn't metter if the mini is great and nothing else about it annoys me, of course.

That first Doom figure, the one with the puffed up cloak, now that figure is pretty awesome, even in HQ context and even though it is in larger scale.
BE plausible: first of all his pose is right and he looks threateningly slightly downwards (into the eyes of an HQ hero)
and second of all he's been alive dabbling in magic for dozens or even unnaturally hundreds of years.
There is no reality version of an explanation how it cannot be the case that his magics changed his body thus.
Look at Sauron. Pretty tall dude, right? Morcar can be pretty tall, too.

The key is be plausible, don't try to be realistic.
But I digress... still roughly in the topic though.
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Re: Zargon/Morcar mini question...

Postby aaronAGN » Saturday July 1st, 2017 7:13pm

Agreed with everything you just said
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Re: Zargon/Morcar mini question...

Postby aaronAGN » Friday August 4th, 2017 3:34am

knightkrawler wrote:Those scale differences are not all that important as long as you can eyeball them yourself and see if the mini fits your taste and tolerance level..


So random question.
I'm trying to find replacement minis for the BQ pack.
I've seen a lot of stuff on "scale" which just confuses me.
It seems that things like 28mm and 50mm scale are referring to the size of the base.
But I don't know.
And I just want to find minis that match the originals in height.
For instance, how tall is the Gargoyle mini? How tall is the Yeti mini? Or the Polar Warbear? Or Frozen Horror?
And how do I find out how tall Pathfinder Battles minis are or D&D Monster Menagerie minis are before I buy them?

Like this:
http://www.trollandtoad.com/p1047752.html

Or this:
http://www.trollandtoad.com/p1013421.html

I read it has a 24mm scale base. but I used to think 24mm meant 24mm tall. Now I don't know.
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Re: Zargon/Morcar mini question...

Postby knightkrawler » Friday August 4th, 2017 10:36am

Nononono, the scale has nothing to do with the base size.
Some say, a miniature scale is from the bottom of its feet to its eyes. In this case, 28mm represent roughly 1,70m real life for a normally built male figure.
Some say its measured from the bottom of its feet to the top of its head. Then 28mm represent roughly 1,80m real life.
An Ogre of 41 mm to its eyes then would have an extrapolated real-life height of about 2,80 m.
The scale number you ask for only counts for a "typical male human". Other races are extrapolated and proportioned from that.

Common mm scales are
28 mm and 32 mm for the games and miniature ranges we like to scan for proxies in.
There's also 30 mm and 35 mm and some old manufacturers had 25 mm (Ral Partha and Grenadier, for example).
These ranges in size are what you look for when searching for HQ proxies, but you don't do that by typing the scale in an ebay search,
but rather by knowing what is in that scale and what isn't-
Hint: Fantasy Flight Games' humanoid figures (for the game Descent, for instance) are unusable combined with HQ figures because FFG use their own weird scale (25 mm realistic; this scale has never been used by anyone ever).

There's also a huge difference between "heroic" scales and others. Warhammer is heroic scale and you can see and evaluate the differences to more realistic figures.

Then there's the "painters'" scales, like 54 mm, 72 mm, and 90 mm.

Then there's scales in modelling. Here we don't have the measure of the figure itself, but a real
proportion scale like 1:43 (many model cars), 1:72 (small toy soldiers) and others.

The problem is, nobody names their scale officially anymore.
Some manufacturers help you with actually mm measures given for particular miniatures. fraggle scale in that case, the manufacturer is doing you a world of good there.
There's not much more tips I can give you.
I have owned and re-sold a lot of miniatures that didn'f fit my bill as I wanted to
and it's sheer experience knowing what's the right size.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________

EDIT: You probably read my post fom today where I said, the Yeti's base looks like 50 mm (http://forum.yeoldeinn.com/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=54&start=280).
That's just that: the base has a diameter of 50 mm. It has nothing to do with the miniature's scale, which is 28 or 32 mm.
But I can easier guess at the figure's size, knowing that the D&D minis have only a certain amount of bases: 25 mm, 50 mm, and so on in diameter.
This is then a clearer fact I see. Either the base is 25 mm, then that Yeti is very small.
So it must be a 50 mm base, so you can roughly extrapolate its height and set that in proportion to, say, the HeroQuest Barbarian.
HQ - Heroes & Villains (Dropbox-download link) https://www.dropbox.com/sh/jgj0kzsys9w38oh/AAA_VEHx6vMv4HKRX7IiOWTFa?dl=0
Feedback http://forum.yeoldeinn.com/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=3560
Gallery http://forum.yeoldeinn.com/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=1972&hilit=knightkrawler+gallery&start=200
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

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Always make more promises than you can break.


Rewards:
Grin's Stone Map Created a Hot Topic. Participated in three (3) Miniature Exchanges. Killed a mighty Fimir! Shattered a Skeleton! Destroyed a Zombie! Unravelled a Mummy! Crushed a powerful Chaos Warrior! Smashed a massive Gargoyle! Encountered a menacing Chaos Warlock!
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Re: Zargon/Morcar mini question...

Postby aaronAGN » Monday August 7th, 2017 11:03am

knightkrawler wrote:Nononono, the scale has nothing to do with the base size.
Some say, a miniature scale is from the bottom of its feet to its eyes. In this case, 28mm represent roughly 1,70m real life for a normally built male figure.
Some say its measured from the bottom of its feet to the top of its head. Then 28mm represent roughly 1,80m real life.
An Ogre of 41 mm to its eyes then would have an extrapolated real-life height of about 2,80 m.
The scale number you ask for only counts for a "typical male human". Other races are extrapolated and proportioned from that.

Common mm scales are
28 mm and 32 mm for the games and miniature ranges we like to scan for proxies in.
There's also 30 mm and 35 mm and some old manufacturers had 25 mm (Ral Partha and Grenadier, for example).
These ranges in size are what you look for when searching for HQ proxies, but you don't do that by typing the scale in an ebay search,
but rather by knowing what is in that scale and what isn't-
Hint: Fantasy Flight Games' humanoid figures (for the game Descent, for instance) are unusable combined with HQ figures because FFG use their own weird scale (25 mm realistic; this scale has never been used by anyone ever).

There's also a huge difference between "heroic" scales and others. Warhammer is heroic scale and you can see and evaluate the differences to more realistic figures.

Then there's the "painters'" scales, like 54 mm, 72 mm, and 90 mm.

Then there's scales in modelling. Here we don't have the measure of the figure itself, but a real
proportion scale like 1:43 (many model cars), 1:72 (small toy soldiers) and others.

The problem is, nobody names their scale officially anymore.
Some manufacturers help you with actually mm measures given for particular miniatures. fraggle scale in that case, the manufacturer is doing you a world of good there.
There's not much more tips I can give you.
I have owned and re-sold a lot of miniatures that didn'f fit my bill as I wanted to
and it's sheer experience knowing what's the right size.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________

EDIT: You probably read my post fom today where I said, the Yeti's base looks like 50 mm (http://forum.yeoldeinn.com/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=54&start=280).
That's just that: the base has a diameter of 50 mm. It has nothing to do with the miniature's scale, which is 28 or 32 mm.
But I can easier guess at the figure's size, knowing that the D&D minis have only a certain amount of bases: 25 mm, 50 mm, and so on in diameter.
This is then a clearer fact I see. Either the base is 25 mm, then that Yeti is very small.
So it must be a 50 mm base, so you can roughly extrapolate its height and set that in proportion to, say, the HeroQuest Barbarian.


I feel.... really really dumb right now.
That's a lot to take in.
And unfortunately none of it made much sense to me. I still am unsure how to extrapolate the height of the 50mm base Yeti as compared to the HQ Barbarian. My guess is that the Yet is about twice as big.

Still figuring all this out.
Went ahead and bought the yeti anyway. Was only a couple dollars. So If it doesn't work for Frozen Horror Yeti mini replacement, I'll either find some other use for it or give it to a friend of mine running tabletop games who needs more minis.

I'll get this figured out sooner rather than later I imagine. It's like you said. It's more about sheer experience.
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