Ye Olde Inn

by **Daedalus** » June 22nd, 2013, 6:45 pm

I'd recommend those interested in the Chapterhouse vs. Games Workshop lawsuit check out the prime source for what is on the web, http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2013/06/legalwatch-games-workshop-vs_14.html. The results of the case are still forthcoming over the next few days, as is the actual judgement. A more neutral, and thus reliable and complete description of the verdict than that provided by the legal team defending Chapterhouse is available there.

Copyright claims: GW won 1/3, CH won 2/3
Trademark claims: GW won 37, CH won 55
Damages awarded: CH to pay GW $25,000 USD
Both sides may appeal.

Yes, it's great GW has been fought and beaten on many fronts, but they also prevailed on many others. For a legal matter closer to the Hero Quest community, check out this thread.

Daedalus wrote:I'd recommend those interested in the Chapterhouse vs. Games Workshop lawsuit check out the prime source for what is on the web, http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2013/06/legalwatch-games-workshop-vs_14.html. The results of the case are still forthcoming over the next few days, as is the actual judgement. A more neutral, and thus reliable and complete description of the verdict than that provided by the legal team defending Chapterhouse is available there.

Copyright claims: GW won 1/3, CH won 2/3
Trademark claims: GW won 37, CH won 55
Damages awarded: CH to pay GW $25,000 USD
Both sides may appeal.

That doesn't sound like a win at all

by **chaoticprime** » June 22nd, 2013, 7:09 pm

We're not even using anything close to what Chapterhouse did, and ours involves a product mutually owned by two different companies, one of which made its assets publicly available for download. We're wanting to make compatible miniatures for a non-existent product.

Also, its very much a win if you consider that GW wanted over $160,000 in damages, and the complete and total shutdown of Chapterhouse.

by **Daedalus** » June 22nd, 2013, 7:21 pm

Jewels wrote:
Daedalus wrote:Copyright claims: GW won 1/3, CH won 2/3
Trademark claims: GW won 37, CH won 55
Damages awarded: CH to pay GW $25,000 USD
Both sides may appeal.

That doesn't sound like a win at all

It depends how you look at it. Chapterhouse may still operate with much of its business still intact, including much of its website. Games Workshop was looking to totally destroy this guy. He's coming out of it with a severe limp.

I don't see the verdict as a deathknell for a Hero Quest Kickstarter--it can still happen pretty much how chaoticprime has described it. He's talking about a lot of new miniatures in the old style. With new sculpts, it should be do-able to create them with enough difference to avoid the big guns. Bloodmoon Miniatures has already done this with their Bog Raiders, aka Fimir. I'm playing devil's advocate in the hopes of keeping expectations in the safe zone. (Also, I'm probably being reactionary.) I think there are a lot of great ideas pushing around with this, and chaoticprime looks like the best guy to see things done. I'm cautiously interested.

by **chaoticprime** » June 22nd, 2013, 8:44 pm

Plus, both GW and Hasbro(by way of owning Milton Bradley) co-own the copyright to HeroQuest in the United States. As sets of rules cannot be copyrighted, we can go so far as to claim "compatibility with the rules from HeroQuest," even. We cannot represent ourselves as the legitimate article, however. This is why Words with Friends can exist as being nothing more than Scrabble with a different trademark.

by **Jewels!** » June 22nd, 2013, 9:05 pm

chaoticprime wrote:Plus, both GW and Hasbro(by way of owning Milton Bradley) co-own the copyright to HeroQuest in the United States. As sets of rules cannot be copyrighted, we can go so far as to claim "compatibility with the rules from HeroQuest," even. We cannot represent ourselves as the legitimate article, however. This is why Words with Friends can exist as being nothing more than Scrabble with a different trademark.

I didn't mean to imply this would have an effect on this project, It just seemed like a Pyrrhic victory when reading the blog post. Putting it into perspective helped.

Now I'm imagining a HQ clone being sold as "Quests with Friends."

by **chaoticprime** » June 22nd, 2013, 9:19 pm

Jewels wrote:
chaoticprime wrote:Plus, both GW and Hasbro(by way of owning Milton Bradley) co-own the copyright to HeroQuest in the United States. As sets of rules cannot be copyrighted, we can go so far as to claim "compatibility with the rules from HeroQuest," even. We cannot represent ourselves as the legitimate article, however. This is why Words with Friends can exist as being nothing more than Scrabble with a different trademark.

I didn't mean to imply this would have an effect on this project, It just seemed like a Pyrrhic victory when reading the blog post. Putting it into perspective helped.

Now I'm imagining a HQ clone being sold as "Quests with Friends."

I believe we have our name.

by **Jewels!** » June 22nd, 2013, 9:29 pm

chaoticprime wrote:I believe we have our name.

by **knightkrawler** » June 23rd, 2013, 1:45 am

chaoticprime wrote:Plus, both GW and Hasbro(by way of owning Milton Bradley) co-own the copyright to HeroQuest in the United States. As sets of rules cannot be copyrighted, we can go so far as to claim "compatibility with the rules from HeroQuest," even. We cannot represent ourselves as the legitimate article, however. This is why Words with Friends can exist as being nothing more than Scrabble with a different trademark.

We already settled on similar, but yet different bases. Let's avoid simple replicas for the minis.
No dice pictures are involved, anyway. And - up till now - there's no rule set or even rule parts or anything written, so there's no danger concerning copyright, anyway.
There's only miniatures, maintaining the style of existing (but uncontinued) miniatures by a company long having evolved their style into something entirely different.

Neither GW nor Hasbro are being interested in any way in making profit with the miniatures GW/MB offered with HeroQuest, so they (the miniatures as a set) are a non-existing product.
I don't see us hurting anybody.

by **Sjeng** » June 23rd, 2013, 4:24 am

I think that as long as you don't use copyrighted names, such as "fimir", you're fine. The whole Chibi Adventurers kickstarter was nothing more than chibi versions of all the D&D cartoon characters from the 80's. They use a different colour scheme for the heroes, and slightly different names for monsters. They were only told to remove the bullywogs, shambling mound and hooked horror minis. The others (bugbear, tiamat, owlbear, goblin, orc, skeleton, zombie, mummie etc. etc. even a one-eyed demon "fimir" chibi) were allowed.