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D&D 5e Basic Rules released

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Re: D&D 5e Basic Rules released

Postby IvenBach » Thursday August 7th, 2014 7:27pm

Diving into http://media.wizards.com/downloads/dnd/DnDBasicRules.pdf for some light reading. After a brief, and I mean brief glance at differences that I check at every new edition it seems like they took 2nd and 3rd and tried to take the best of both.
8
    Noted was that 0th level spells now do damage, but don't progress as much. Shocking grasp now treated as 0th lvl doing 1d8 and increases at 5th 11th and 17th level; the same goes for Ray of Frost, while Firebolt seems to do 1d10.
    * Magic Missile only ups damage if you cast it at a higher level slot (guess this is like the Metamagic 'Heighten Spell' from 3rd).
    * Spell save DC seems to be now 8 + mods instead of 10.
    * 2 spells instead of 1 at each new spell level. Don't know if this takes into consideration a high ability score though.
    * Leveling up numbers were a lot lower
    * They explicitly stated that any specific rule contradicting a general rule take precedence. That's a plus in my book where they indicate that a rule can be broken. Oh how I used to milk them rules...
    * Advantage and Disadvantage: Advantage lets you roll 2 dice and take the best of the 2. So many stupid rolls screwed over great planning...
I'll get some reading done tonight and maybe report back with a better informed opinion. Brief glance shows promise.


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Re: D&D 5e Basic Rules released

Postby el_flesh » Thursday August 7th, 2014 9:43pm

I got a group that started on one game of HQ - now we're about to get started on D&D 5.
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Re: D&D 5e Basic Rules released

Postby IvenBach » Friday August 8th, 2014 4:21am

Quick post before I head to bed. The more I read the more I am inclined to say they've done the right thing with this edition. Still just going deeper into what catches my eye. I really like the Advantage/Disadvantage idea. Roll 2 dice: Advantage takes the best one while Disadvantage takes the worst. Simple but effective, kind of like HQ.

Burning hands is 3d6 for a lvl 1 spell! Finally a lvl 1 mage gets the chance to roll high and kill a boss at first level.


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Re: D&D 5e Basic Rules released

Postby Malcadon » Friday August 8th, 2014 11:28am

IvenBach wrote:Noted was that 0th level spells now do damage, but don't progress as much. Shocking grasp now treated as 0th lvl doing 1d8 and increases at 5th 11th and 17th level; the same goes for Ray of Frost, while Firebolt seems to do 1d10.

Actually, they can do some serious damage given their power level! That is, all 0-level spells are AT-WILL powers! Meaning, that a spell-caster can cast Fire Bolt, Ray of Frost or Shocking Grasp on each turn without running out of power!

Unlike other spell that can be boosted by assigning them to higher level spell-slots, 0-level spells do not need spell slots, as they are at-will spells that requires no re-memorization.
IvenBach wrote:Magic Missile only ups damage if you cast it at a higher level slot (guess this is like the Metamagic 'Heighten Spell' from 3rd).

It is a different rule than any other before it. Where in past editions, spells automatically progress in power as the character gains level, but in this, you have to assign it a higher level spell-slot.
IvenBach wrote:Spell save DC seems to be now 8 + mods instead of 10.

I assume that was to take into account that at the starting levels, you get a +2 Proficiency Bonus to all rolls -- skills, saves, etc. -- the PC is proficient at. So a roll with a starting Proficiency Bonus would effectively have the same odds as a DC 10 test: a 50% of success, not counting any ability adjustment.
IvenBach wrote:2 spells instead of 1 at each new spell level. Don't know if this takes into consideration a high ability score though.

In the past, 1st level Wizards Mage Magic-Users had to deal with only one spell and no cantraps. I assume that is to make then less of a "glass-cannon" by giving them that one extra 1st level slot. Although, with the damage one can inflict with some of the damage-inducing cantraps -- with no real limit on daily use -- that one extra spell slot is not needed... as much.
IvenBach wrote:Leveling up numbers were a lot lower

You mean Proficiency Bonus? Yeah, you will have a flat +2 to all proficient rolls for the first four levels, then at 5th level, it goes up to +3 for the next four levels, and finally it goes up to +6 at levels 17-20! Now that is different! But logical. The intention of that is to keep the characters form becoming too powerful with each level, and to make the challenges less reliant on specific levels -- basically a starter adventure is geared towards levels 1-4, veteran adventures are levels 5-10, and so one. This is a good thing, as monsters are not throwaway creatures after one or two levels. Even if a monster was a challenge for 3rd levels characters, they are still a threat at 6th level, if you add one or two more per encounter. On top of that, it keeps players form accumulating a mountain of bonuses at high level. Plus, the uniformed system make managing bonuses easier on the DM. (Making high-level NPCs in 3.5 used to be such a huge pain in the ass!)

I remember the idea for limited bonus progression first being proposed by Zak S. form Playing D&D With Porn Stars -- there is a rumor that his blog seems to be required reading at WofC. In this case, each new level would give the player the option to advance one or two stats (skill, save, attack, etc.) by +1. They took his advice, but used a different approach.
IvenBach wrote:They explicitly stated that any specific rule contradicting a general rule take precedence. That's a plus in my book where they indicate that a rule can be broken. Oh how I used to milk them rules...

That is a given. Skills and Feats are meant to be enhancement to what a character can normally do, or special actions or abilities that other people cannot do. That is a simple rule clarification. Plus, as far as the DM is concerned, rules can be changed at will! People got so dogmatic with edition 3.5, but they totally forgot that little rule established in 3.0 called Rule-0. Basically, if the DM or game group are content with a rule, the wording, or the like, they are at liberty to change it. So if you though that grappling was total balls, you could say "Screw that!" and used a different method for grappling.
IvenBach wrote:Advantage and Disadvantage: Advantage lets you roll 2 dice and take the best of the 2. So many stupid rolls screwed over great planning...

Yeah, that is a great rule! The first time I seen it was in Barbarians of Lemuria, but in that, Advantages/Disadvantages are character traits and flaws based on specific tasks. So something like Attractive grant an extra die (3d6, dropping the lowest result) in situations where good looks are important. This is a good rules, as is speeds up combat and skill rolls by removing all those chunky tactical adjustments (although, cover provides a +2 AC bonus). A character can only have one Advantage or Disadvantage, and having an Advantage and Disadvantage cancels each other out. No fuss... no muss!

Here are some other things I found about it:

  • Characters are not reliant on magical healing. With Short Rests, the player can use recovery dice (they call it "Hit Dice", but that is too confusing) -- equal to the character's level -- to heal lost hip points. This is basically resting, eating, drinking and patching-up injuries. Spent recovery dice cannot be revered by normal healing (spells or potions), and can be recovered with Long Rest. With Long Rest, you recover all lost hit points, and half the lost recovery dice.
  • Feats are an optional rule that is going to be featured in the PHB. Unlike the old feats form 3rd edition (they were originally meant to provide special combat abilities/maneuvers for Fighters) that provide some small ability or bonus to a particular task, but the feats in the 5th edition seems to be special character kits akin the the Background rules. They are also seem to be key with Multiclassing.
  • Equipment Packs and Tools/Kits are used to list a uniformed package of items. This is good, as it saves time in CharGen, when purchasing starting gear.
  • They list the Potion of Healing as standard Adventuring Gear. This item costs 50gp. And Shield now provide a +2 to AC. Now they feel less useless!
  • They list a handful of basic services (food, coach cab, messenger, hirelings, etc.), but none of it relates to prostitution -- this is a huge oversight that could totally delegitimize it as an edition of Dungeons & Dragons! (Hell, HeroQuest feels incomplete without prostitutes! ;) )
  • Death Saves are a neat new rule. Basically, at 0 Hit Points, you need to make three successes to stabilize, while three failures will kill you outright! The PC get no adjustment, as he/she is in the hands of fate. Also, negative hit points are equal to the character's total hit points.


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Re: D&D 5e Basic Rules released

Postby IvenBach » Monday August 11th, 2014 2:46pm

Now into the latter half of spells and have a more informed view of 5th edition. From everything that I've read they took the best of all editions and cut out all the bloat. I started with 2nd edition and disliked the awkward tables for every save among other things. 3rd edition fixed that but added TONS of meta-gaming in, I honestly never realized how bad it was till looking back on it. 3.5 addressed some issues but still added way more complexity. 4th I completely passed on but heard it was more like MTG instead of tabletop. Pathfinder I just scratched the surface of and pared back a little of what was wrong with 3.5. Taking the core of each edition it seems they came up with a good amalgamation of all. This seems like it was because of the open playtesting and the old schooler's out there that were able to put their :2cents: on it.

0th level at will spells are finally worth it. They can do damage that isn't insignificant.

Spell damage is apparently front end loaded.
They do quite a bit more damage initially than in previous editions but don't gain more damage as you do, unless you use a higher level spell slot.

Fireball: Starts out at 8d6 (avg 28 dmg) at character level 5. This beats out damage till 3 levels later if you still cast as a 3rd level spell. If you use it in a higher level slot its still better till character level 11 (6th level spell) at which you'll certainly have better spells available. I like this.

Burning hands: 3d6 (avg 10-11) instead of 1d4 at 1st level. You can seriously hurt if not actually kill outright if you end up getting into melee. This for me is a nice change for casters since it'd take out a group of guys directly in front of you.

Guiding Bolt: 4d6 (avg 14) to start and it gives Advantage on the next attack against it. Strongest single hitting spell there is at 1st level. Undoubtedly will drop bosses crazy fast. It's a cleric spell too!

Magic Missile: 3 Missiles of 1d4+1 (avg 10-11) can pick off one target of have each missile hit a different target.That's some nice utility.



Other Spells of Note
Healing Word: 1d4+Ability Modifier for ranged healing. Nice to see a ranged heal for once in the rulebooks.

Faerie Fire: AKA Glitterdust if memory serves that now gives Advantage to all attack roles against those affected.

Mage Armor: Can't be wearing any armor and gets an effective +3 to ac. Lasts 8 hours! Finally a useful duration that doesn't stack onto your facetanky Fighter.

Sleep: Has no saving throw! 5d8 (average 22-23 hit points affected) should be a staple for many casters. Severe diminishing return if you try to use it at higher levels but against a single foe it still has plenty of potential.



Notable Wizard/Caster changes
Concentration can apparently be maintained even while casting another spell, so long as it doesn't also require concentration. Unless we erroneously played it wrong concentration always seemed like you couldn't cast any other spells in previous editions. Brief check in PHB 3.5 says it's a standard action that provokes AoO (attack of opportunity) so we did play it right.

No armor check pentalty. If you have proficiency in it you can cast in it. I'm already seeing many level 1 Fighters suddenly claim they can now start using magic as Wizard.

Wizards no longer memorize a spell in each slot, instead function more like Sorcerors in 3rd edition.
Page 30 DND Basic Rules wrote:...if you're a 3rd-level wizard, you have four 1st-level and two 2nd-level spell slots. With an Intelligence of 16, your list of prepared spells can include six spells of 1st or 2nd level, in any combination, chosen from your spellbook. If you prepare the 1st-level spell magic missile, you can cast it using a 1st-level or a 2nd-level slot. Casting doesn't remove it from your list of prepared spells.
Makes playing them a lot more rewarding instead of pigeonholing them.



Miscellaneous Stuff
Skills are now 18 skills instead of the ridiculous 45 skills in 3rd. Less tables and more intuition is nice.

Elves now have Darkvision :( . Disagree with that one. Elves have seemingly always only needed to 'meditate' for 4 hours to get 8 hours of rest. Also they get advantage against charm and can't be put to sleep by magic.Still seems like Elves get more love than the other races, meh...

Halflings can move through the space of any creature larger than them. They can also reroll any Attack, Ability Check, Saving throw on a natural 1, but must use the subsequent roll. It can't get any worse than a 1 so that's a nice trait.

If an attack would kill a creature you can choose to knock it unconscious. No more -4 penalty for dealing subdual damage with a weapon.



Almost everything I've seen has been a change for the better so this has been a nice read. There's other stuff but these were the ones that stood out most. I'll definitely look into 5E more now that I've had a chance to see what it's like.


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Re: D&D 5e Basic Rules released

Postby Sjeng » Wednesday August 20th, 2014 4:02am

D&D roleplaying has always drawn me, but never really got to play it.
There's just oo much to remember, and even if I could get into it enough to play a character, I'd still need some friends to play with, ánd most importantly, a good and skilled DM who actually knows all the ins and outs of D&D.
It's always been mission impossible sadly...

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Re: D&D 5e Basic Rules released

Postby Malcadon » Wednesday August 20th, 2014 8:23am

Heads-up, guys! They updated the basic rules, and added a something for the DM. You can find them here.

The Players Book is just like the first file, but now with the following:
  • Added acid splash, counterspell, disguise self, poison spray, shatter, and wall of fire spells.
  • Added noble background.
  • Added appendix containing the Forgotten Realms deities.
  • Added appendix containing descriptions of the five factions that feature in the D&D Adventurers League.
The Dungeon Master Book list quite a number of monsters (including stock NPCs), with the last few pages noting EXP rewards, and some magic items.

Basically, its enough to game with, if you like to game it like the old Basic/Expert D&D game, but you'll have to make-up stuff to fill the gaps (like making more backgrounds and magic items).


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Re: D&D 5e Basic Rules released

Postby torilen » Wednesday August 20th, 2014 10:19am

Still not sure. I haven't read any more of the books yet - just reading what you guys are posting here.
It sounds a lot better than 4th ed., maybe even 3.5, since there were SOOOO many additional books
that allowed for people to break every rule there was (unless, as the good DM would, you limited the
use of all the outside books). There still sounds like quite a bit I wouldn't like.

It seems like, as with 4th ed, they are simply trying to make every character type be able to do everything
all at once. Wizards doing so much damage at 1st level with an at will spell...that just seems ludicrous to me.
There needs to be clear distinction of the roles for characters and there needs to be positives and negatives for
playing different characters.

Granted - my skill cards and magical items make it possible for all players to have very similar characters if they
want to. My hope would be that they would use the wide variety and availability to really create diverse characters
with genuine roles in the adventure group.

Any how - thanks for all the posting. Keep writing, and hopefully I'll get around to reading things myself soon.
For now, though, I'll still stick with basic/companion/expert for my D&D kicks.


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Re: D&D 5e Basic Rules released

Postby IvenBach » Thursday August 21st, 2014 2:27am

Played a little bit at my local game store. Nothing too big to shout about. Mage damage is frontloaded early on but doesn't scale like it used too. Ray of frost is basically a magic crossbow that slows movement speed. Flare or whatever the other cantrip is (1d10) is better for damage. DAYUM there are some geeky kids but it was balanced out by a dad that brought his kids, they were really well behaved and attentive. Minimal combat but the advantage/disadvantage came up and I really like its simplicity.

My halfling cleric killed 2 of the 6 kobolds we encountered. He may be short but he cracks skulls with his warhammer! I was also complimented on my cleric mini by some of the players. It made me feel all warm and tingly inside :lol:

The biggest mention I have is the fact that numbers are kept low. Meaning your proficiency bonus doesn't scale like it used to. No longer do fighters get +1bab every level. I asked the gm and he said it felt like they were trying to keep artificial cielings from being imposed on players going against impossible to hit ac for non fighter types. With another session and less startup time I'll probablyhave more to comment on.


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Re: D&D 5e Basic Rules released

Postby torilen » Thursday August 21st, 2014 9:05am

I will say one thing - it has been mentioned that some of the lower-level monsters are now not as
throw away as they used to be. I would like that quite a bit. D&D has always been reliant on powerful
monsters and enemies...notice that through the many versions there are few published adventures for
anything under 3rd level. And one always has to wonder, if there are so many high level adventurers
running around...enough to take care of all of the high level monsters...how is the world not completely
destroyed or overrun with high level monsters and ego-maniacal high level characters?

They've tried to explain this away in DM guides before, but I never did buy the explanation.


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