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12 Sided Dices Dungeon Generator.

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12 Sided Dices Dungeon Generator.

Postby Valnar Nightrunner » Monday May 31st, 2021 11:56am

HI ALL !

Here are five 12 sided dices to print, with the various results of the Dungeon Generating Tables from Advanced Heroquest. HOPE YOU LIKE IT !

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Re: 12 Sided Dices Dungeon Generator.

Postby iKarith » Monday May 31st, 2021 2:14pm

Oh those would be handy to actually have made!

And now I need to find that video that explains how to tweak AHQ a little for a bit smaller tables and less sprawl to the dungeons. I think the major thing he did was eliminate the 3 section hallway and redistribute the others …

This video … is a bit slow, to be honest, but it goes through his rule customizations for solo play starting about 6:30. On different phases, he draws tokens and uses wandering monster and those work as modifiers to dice. Others are returned to the pot. Elsehwere he draws looking for the tokens he put back in the earlier phase and when he's got 4 of those, he will spend them at the next opportunity to favor the AI GM. At about 13:20 he starts talking about the changes he makes to keep the game on the table.

Effectively, when rolling for passage length, 1-7 is one, 8-12 is two.

He makes doors always two-spaces wide. WHQ I understand keeps "one" wide doors, but allows them to be placed across two tiles, making them effectively double-wide. (I actually do this with HQ doors.)

The idea of having dice that eliminate the table lookup is still really useful.
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Re: 12 Sided Dices Dungeon Generator.

Postby Valnar Nightrunner » Monday May 31st, 2021 2:38pm

iKarith wrote:The idea of having dice that eliminate the table lookup is still really useful.


Indeed but this only working with the original tables from the rulebook. Those tables are a bit different in many official quests from White Dwarf (and are totally disappear from the quest "Rivers of Blood", because the entire dungeon is already mapped). The tables system is very interresting because you can use your own for each scenari. Advanced Heroquest is a dungeon crawl, but it can be played like a true roleplaying game. In fact, it is more a roleplaying game than Heroquest or Warhammer Quest, some sort of a simplified Warhammer Roleplaying Game...

Those dices I made are usefull for solo play or for a "without GM" game.

Interesting video full of good ideas I mean !
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Re: 12 Sided Dices Dungeon Generator.

Postby iKarith » Monday May 31st, 2021 4:59pm

I imagine AHQ tiles are probably most useful with planned dungeons with maps drawn in advance. Toco's Allied HeroQuest had the original quest book re-imagined with AHQ tiles and his own sort of hybridized mechanics. If you're familiar with AHQ, its rules contain a lot for being able to take things from HQ and "evolve" them to play the more complex game. Toco did that in reverse: He took the more complex AHQ mechanics and gamepieces and "devolved" them to play by the simpler HeroQuest rules anywhere that made sense.

Sadly, out of an (over-)abundance of caution, he took it down when Hasbro announced they were reprinting the game. That said, Kurgan found they were archived, something I "the archivist" neglected to even check for. So they're less easy to find, with a common search engine, but … not hard to find once you know they're there. This actually gives the best of all worlds, really. Toco feels secure that he's not at risk anymore, but we still have access to all but the most recent quests for the thing he created.)

I haven't really delved into Allied, but I like the concept, and I really like the idea of adapting the GS quests to play on alternate boards. The original is certainly iconic and surprisingly versatile, and the German adaptation does a lot to improve what I see as its major flaws, but I really like the idea of having dungeons cut into rocks and caverns be cut into negative solid rock space in the way that most makes sense, just as I like those based upon fortifications, castles, mage's towers, etc. beginning with the thing to be fortified and then building the fortifications around them. It's not as easily done with the original board.

(If you'd like to see something that really does that continuity thing well, Mice and Mystics does it really well, perhaps at the cost of being able to easily reuse several of the boards in other homebrew quests. It's a tradeoff I guess.)
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Re: 12 Sided Dices Dungeon Generator.

Postby Davane » Monday May 31st, 2021 7:28pm

In WHQ, the doors are two wide. They clip on as two wide, and you can move diagonally through them, so for all intents and purposes they are two wide. In fact, there are very few spaces in WHQ that aren't two wide. A couple of corridor sections for ambushes, and some of the stairs in multilevel rooms. Gorgut's Lair is an interesting multi-level room, because it's a 5 wide objective room, but the entrance level has only four squares...

I do like the dice, but my one concern is that for passages, you inadvertently seem to get rid of the bell curve rolling 2d12 gives you. Have you taken this into account with your design, because it would be great if you did.

Also WHQ can be played as a roleplaying game, but because the roleplaying aspect of it is so small, many players simply forget this, even though that's why they called the big whopping tome the roleplay book. By small, I mean you get maybe 30 pages of a 192 page tome covering the rules which are basically, "the GM makes up the rules," and "GM, here's some advice for some rules." The expansions included very little extra material for GMs, consisting mainly of another published multi-deep adventure, but the advice on steering uncooperative players to your adventure from Catacombs of Terror is hilarious to read.

It's kind of sad how, despite being somewhat of a success as a dungeon crawling board game, because WHQ wasn't as big a success as it's premium lines, and it didn't fulfill it's true purpose of encouraging more players to buy GW miniatures, it wasn't allowed to become all that it could be. But, even then, it always sounded like it was a glorified romp for the devs when they couldn't get their armies out more than anything, but the rules for using your Warhammer Quest Warriors in WFB was a masterclass in coming up with thematic WFB heroes of your own.

Whilst I'm gushing, if you can find an online copy of the Mordheim rules, that's always worth a look. Although it's a skirmish game, the between battle events and territory had a lot of fodder for the imagination, and given the similarity in scale between WHQ, WFB, and Mordheim, combining Mordheim could be just what you need to turn WHQ into a full roleplaying game that would rival even AHQ...
"The HeroQuest World is loosely based on the Warhammer World which is the copyright of Games Workshop and is used by their permission."

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Re: 12 Sided Dices Dungeon Generator.

Postby iKarith » Monday May 31st, 2021 9:02pm

WHQ doors are 2 wide, noted. I've never actually seen WHQ in real life. I've seen other games in the WHQ line more recently, and I want to say I saw a one-to-two transition between tiles in some playthrough or other of Cursed City. I thought that was a design intention. If memory serves correctly, it might be for Cursed City. Seems I was mistaken about the original WHQ though.

I'd like to make some double-wide HQ doors. I've notion of how to make some single-wide ones that would be really cool and pretty easy to make using one of two methods, but I don't know how to make double-wide ones yet. I haven't decided which method I am going to prefer for making the single-wide doors either.

Both involve wide tongue depressor "popsicle sticks" which are about the right size for HQ doors I think. Both ideas involve taking one of these and cutting it to a hair under the length you want for a door height. Basically to give you room to use it as a marking jig to cut the actual doors. Then you need a frame. To finish the doors, scratch lines in them with your xacto, deep ones to make planks and shallow ones to make wood grain if you want it. Strips of card stock for banding on the door and a tiny jump ring from the bead/jewelry section of your craft store as a door pull. Just glue 'em on.

First idea for a frame is to make a template of a frame, then cut that out of nearly half-inch foamcore. Could use half-inch XPS for this, but Dollar Tree Rediboard is meant to have the paper peeled off it and apparently if you glue-stick two pieces of it together before cutting the door frame out of it, the join line for the two sheets disappears, and it's a lot easier to get some rediboard home than it is a 4'x8' sheet of Foamular XPS foam. You then draw your keystone and the rest of the bricks on that and cut the door out. making a U shape. The inside cut might be easier with a Foamwerks circle drill. I'm not sure this is easier than the individual brick method.

Second idea is actually to cut strips of it and make foam bricks. Put 'em in a few small pebbles and some sand and shake and the result will look way better than you can get with the first idea. But this method trades having to draw bricks with a craft knife and then a wide tipped ballpoint for having to MAKE foam bricks and then glue them together. Wax paper over a drawn template (or an actual door made from your template), start with the keystone and just glue these things around the door. Cut them flush with the door's base.

Both door frames get glued to a piece of the center of the sticks you didn't use for the doors themselves. These need a hard coat (particularly for open doors) to not be weaker than the chipboard doors that came with HQ. Mod Podge works extremely well for this. Then just handle the bases however you like and paint the stones and door likewise.

I could make essentially French doors this way for double-wide, but … I think they'd look silly. My clever solution for actually using something made of wood to make a wooden door works for 1 wide classic HQ doors (I've cut and scratched up a couple potential doors, they do look pretty good) but I'm going to need to find other material or actually develop skills to make a double-wide I think unless someone else has inspiration after I do up a bunch and post pictures. My (lack of) workspace has been in a state of chaos for weeks, so I haven't had much time to do more than noodle around with methods.


Davane wrote:I do like the dice, but my one concern is that for passages, you inadvertently seem to get rid of the bell curve rolling 2d12 gives you. Have you taken this into account with your design, because it would be great if you did.


For what it's worth, it wasn't my design. All I get credit for here is "hey, I saw some video once and I bet I can find it in my YouTube history…" But no, it doesn't have any sort of bell curve to it. At the point you are rolling for corridors, you've already established that you're going to have one. Will it be short or long? Video's creator has weighted his to be short if I interpreted his note in his photocopy of the rulebook correctly: 1-7 for short and 8-12 for long. That's going to trend to keep the dungeon much more compact, which might cause problems because he's also decided to incorporate rooms that are neither 5x5 nor 5x10 from other GW products or otherwise.

ETA: I thought I read in the table in the book that 1-3 should result in one long, something similar should be three long, and the rest two, creating a bell distribution as you just suggested. Look at the printable cardboard dice there…

1: XX
2: XXXXXX
3: XXXX

That's not quite a bell. Seems like one of those threes should be a one. Did I read the less than clear picture of the table in the youtube video incorrectly, or is the above graphic not representing what's in the book quite correctly?

Davane wrote:Also WHQ can be played as a roleplaying game, but because the roleplaying aspect of it is so small, many players simply forget this, even though that's why they called the big whopping tome the roleplay book. By small, I mean you get maybe 30 pages of a 192 page tome covering the rules which are basically, "the GM makes up the rules," and "GM, here's some advice for some rules." The expansions included very little extra material for GMs, consisting mainly of another published multi-deep adventure, but the advice on steering uncooperative players to your adventure from Catacombs of Terror is hilarious to read.

It's kind of sad how, despite being somewhat of a success as a dungeon crawling board game, because WHQ wasn't as big a success as it's premium lines, and it didn't fulfill it's true purpose of encouraging more players to buy GW miniatures, it wasn't allowed to become all that it could be. But, even then, it always sounded like it was a glorified romp for the devs when they couldn't get their armies out more than anything, but the rules for using your Warhammer Quest Warriors in WFB was a masterclass in coming up with thematic WFB heroes of your own.


I kinda always knew AHQ was essentially a failure from GW's perspective (and perhaps from many players' as well), and I do know that some elements of AHQ have found their way into other GW titles. To what extent is AHQ a prototype for WHQ I wonder? Having spent just enough time with AHQ to see that it wasn't really HQ anymore and shove it back in its box and not touch it for a decade, and having seen nothing of WHQ, it's only my gut and and the fact that GW had their hands in all three games on some level that tells me your notion of combining elements from each might yield something really cool.

From Mr. The Dungeon Dive's video (if that individual is here on the Inn, hi! Your video did give me a great appreciation for AHQ, and I sort of regret looking it over, being disappointed, and shoving the box in a closet for a decade after seeing it), AHQ still feels a little unrefined to me, but the game does seem to have a lot going for it when combined with HQ as was probably sort of intended it would be. Battlin' Barrow Gaming had a video where he looked at AHQ perhaps a little less fondly, but I definitely recommend that video to anyone who doesn't have experience with AHQ and what came in the box. He did say that AHQ was from a time when GW games had thick tomes of rules that were kind of a bit crap, actually. I can't evaluate that claim, but my sense is AHQ's rules are a bit hit and miss and otherwise overly long for anything other than the dungeon generation which seems to be fairly short and to the point actually.

I do very much like the threat system in AHQ and we play HQ with something sort of similar (and The Dungeon Dive's suggestion for how to work that into solo play sounds interesting if I understand it right as well.) When you have a GM, it gives that person something to do when there aren't monsters on the board to attack the players. It also puts a bit of strategy into the game for the GM. I also like how the players can run to the village in the middle of the quest. It leaves heroes a little vulnerable while someone's run off, but it could mean they return with exactly what is needed…


Davane wrote:Whilst I'm gushing, if you can find an online copy of the Mordheim rules, that's always worth a look. Although it's a skirmish game, the between battle events and territory had a lot of fodder for the imagination, and given the similarity in scale between WHQ, WFB, and Mordheim, combining Mordheim could be just what you need to turn WHQ into a full roleplaying game that would rival even AHQ...


Honestly, I wouldn't mind seeing a HQ role playing game. A lot of stuff works the way it does in the game because nobody ever thought there'd be a reason players would ever want to do X. I often note that I like the homebrew rule some have discussed of having someone jump up on the table to get a combat advantage. Cost? He's now a table-sized target. (I think you also need to roll to see if the table doesn't just collapse and drop the hero on their heroic ass and possibly causing injury, but that doesn't appear to be part of anyone's homebrew that I know of.) I just like the storytelling implications of stuff like that. Or grabbing a burning chunk of wood sticking out of the fire in the fireplace and … yeah it's only doing 1CD attacks. Except against that mummy, it'll do 2CD against him.

Another game I'm told is worth investigating is Talisman. I know very little about it.
Milton Bradley: "So guys, everyone knows about orcs, goblins and mummies and stuff, but what about these 'fimirs' we're putting in the game? Tell me all about them!"

Games Workshop: "Uhhhhhhhhhhh...."
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