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paeterboy wrote:I was wondering if anyone has ever figured out a "point system" you could use to more precisely balance quests you create. For example, assigning "point values" to each kind of monster. Any thoughts? Thanks.
Daedalus wrote:paeterboy wrote:I was wondering if anyone has ever figured out a "point system" you could use to more precisely balance quests you create. For example, assigning "point values" to each kind of monster. Any thoughts? Thanks.
I posted this elsewhere before I found the Inne (edited for appearance):
Something that has been done before: assign an experience point (XP) value to monsters for leveling up the Heroes. The following system could be used for that, but that's not what I'm after.
Instead, the purpose of the system is for rating the difficulty of the HQ Questbook Quests and to make comparisons possible with your own Quests. Interested? Do you dare read my mountain of words?
Monster XP The general principle in this rating system is to assign a factor of experience points, or XP, to a monster for each characteristic point above a minimum. Collectively, the monsters and master monsters have the following minimums for characteristics: Move 1, Attack 1 (derived from the Wizard), Defend 1, Body Points 1, and Mind Points 0. Any characteristic above a minimum awards a certain number of XP per attack die, defend die, Body Point or Mind Point.
Move works differently, as it is compared to a Hero's average Move of 7. If a monster's Move is less than half of a Hero's average Move, a -1 XP penalty is accrued. If a monster's Move is equal to or greater than a Hero's average Move, a +1 XP bonus is gained.Monster Characteristics XP Values
Move Attack Defend Body Mind
less than 4 .......... -1 XP 3 XP for each 2 XP for each 3 XP for each 1 XP for each
between 4 and 6 .... 0 XP die over 1 die over 1 point over 1 point over 0
greater than 6 ..... +1 XP
To illustrate using a Goblin [Move 10, Attack 2, Defend 1, Body 1, Mind 1], it gets 1 XP for a Move of 7 or more, 3 XP for one attack die over the minimum of 1, and 1 XP for 1 Mind Point over the minimum of 0. The total is 1+3+1 = 5XP.
This system provides the basic monsters with the following:
Monster Experience Point ValuesGoblin ... 5 XP Skeleton ... 5 XP Zombie ... 7 XP Orc ... 10 XPMummy ... 12 XP Fimir ... 13 XP Chaos Warrior ... 25 XP Gargoyle ... 27 XP
Traps and Hazards XP Calculating the difficulty of a Quest requires more than simply summing the XP values of its monters. Traps and hazards must also have values assigned. Comparing the likely damage of a trap or the automatic damage of a hazard to the probable damage from a monster, parallels may be drawn to arrive at the XP value of a trap or hazard:
Traps and Hazards Experience Point ValuesHazard Chest trap Spear trap Pit trap Falling rock trap Unavoidable* Undetectable^
10 XP 5 XP/ BP 3 XP 5 XP 7 XP +2 XP +5 XP
* Unavoidable: Is the goal that is blocked by a trap unreachable by another, safer route? (Both a chest trap and hazard already have this factored in- they don't add this bonus.)
^ Undetectable: Is the trap located directly behind the other side of a door, or likewise not possible to search for? (A hazard already has this factored in- it doesn't add this bonus.)
Example: There is a pit trap located on the other side of the only door into a room. The value is figured as 5 XP for the pit trap, +2 XP for being unavoidable, and +5 XP for being undetectable- for a total value of 12 XP.
Wandering Monsters and Hazards Most Quests only require two more XP considerations, that of Wandering Monsters and Hazards. The number encountered are dependent upon the players' searches for treasure. Therefor, they are both recorded as a factor triggered by the treasure deck. For example, Quest 1 uses the Orc (10 XP) as the Wandering Monster. This Quest would add 10/WM for Wandering Monsters and 10/H for Hazards to the base XP total of all monsters and traps. Knowing that there is a 6 in 24 (1 in 4) chance of pulling a Wandering Monster and a 4 in 24 (1 in 6) chance of pulling a Hazard, and assuming a certain average number of treasure deck draws per player (say 4), you could estimate the Wandering Monster value at 40 and the Hazard value at 30.
Monster Spells One more possible XP issue is certain monster's spells. They require XP values to add to the master monster's XP, so use the following:Monster Spell XP ValuesFear ...................... 1 XP Tempest ............ 1 XP Ball of Flame ...... 2 XP
Sleep ..................... 2 XP Rust ................. 2 XP Escape ............. 3 XP
Cloud of Chaos .......... 4 XP Command ........... 4 XP Summon Orcs ..... 4 XP
Summon Undead ........ 4 XP Lightning Bolt ...... 5 XP Firestorm .......... 5 XP
Quest Special Rules An individual Quest may have a special rule that affects the XP value, so apply judgement in such cases. Consider the North American ed., Quest 10, Castle of Mystery. Some rooms are less likely to be teleported to by more than one Hero, so they are more dangerous. The monsters within were valued appropriately: teleport on a 7, no adjustment; teleport on a 6 or 8, XP x 1.25; teleport on a 5 or 9, XP x 1.5; teleport on a 4 or 10, XP x 2; teleport on a 3 or 11, XP x 3.
Quest XP Values Now for the NA ed. Quests with their XP values:Quest Book Quests and Their XP ValuesWM = Wandering Monster H = Hazard
Quest 1 261 XP +10/WM, +10/H Quest 2 168 XP + 10/WM, + 10/H
The Trial .................... 331 XP* The Rescue of Sir Ragnar .... 238 XP*
Quest 3 192 XP +10/WM, +10/H Quest 4 214 XP +13/WM, +10/H
Lair of the Orc Warlord ... 262 XP* Prince Magnus' Gold .......... 296 XP*
.
Quest 5 213 XP +7/WM, +10/H Quest 6 242 XP +13/WM, +10/H
Melar's Maze ................ 271 XP* Legacy of the Orc Warlord ... 324 XP*
Quest 7 227 XP +12/WM, +10/H Quest 8 274 XP +13/WM, +10/H
The Lost Wizard ........... 305 XP* The Fire Mage ................ 356 XP*
Quest 9 241 XP +13/WM, +10/H Quest 10 316 XP +0/WM, +10/H
Race Against Time ........ 323 XP* Castle of Mystery ............. 346 XP*
Quest 11 280 XP +13/WM, +10/H Quest 12 Barak Tor- 234 XP + 5/WM, +10/H
Bastion of Chaos ........... 362 XP* Barrow of the Witch Lord .... 284 XP*
Quest 13 Quest 251 XP +25/WM, +10/H Quest 14 221 XP +12/WM, +10/H
for the Spirit Blade ........ 381 XP* Return to Barak Tor ........... 299 XP*
* The XP value is considered average if the Heroes each search for treasure 4 times in a Quest.
The above reference could be used as a comparison model for an unfinished Quest, or for any home-brew Quest as well.
Heroes' XP As for the Heros' XP values, they are calculated a bit differently. There normally is no Move bonus, but plate armor can cost a -1 XP penalty, and Elven Boots can give a +1 XP bonus. Defend dice are more valuable, so each die over 1 accrues 3 XP instead of 2. The Dwarf's disarm and remove traps has a value of 5 XP.
Armory items, artifacts, and potions: Armory items add their dice value over 1, just as a Hero's Attack or Defend dice do. Weapons with a diagonal attack add 1 to the dice value of the weapon. Artifact armor and weapons work similarly. Some artifacts will require individual judgment. Most treasure deck potions are worth 2 XP, but a Heal potion is worth 5 XP.
Hero Spells: Spells add to XP using the following values:Hero Spell XP ValuesSwift Wind ................. 1 Fire of Wrath ......... 1Tempest .................... 1 Ball of Flame .......... 2Genie ....................... 3 Courage ............. 1/4^Pass Through Rock ........ 1 Veil of Mist ............ 1Rock Skin ................... 1 Sleep ................... 2Heal Body .................. 5 Water of Healing ..... 5
^ Use 1 if ruled useful for the next attack only, or use 4 if ruled useful for multiple attacks.
Heroes' XP value(s): Altogether, the Heroes begin with 131 XP, broken down as follows:
Barbarian [Move -, Att 6 XP, Def 3 XP, BP 21 XP, MP 2 XP] 32 XP
Dwarf [Move -, Att 3 XP, Def 3 XP, BP 18 XP, MP 3 XP], Disarm and remove traps 5 XP, 32 XP
Elf [Move -, Att 3 XP, Def 3 XP, BP 15 XP, MP 4 XP], Spells: 5 XP(air), 4/7* XP(fire), 7 XP(rock), or 8 XP (water); 30 XP, 29/32 XP*, 32 XP, or 33 XP
Wizard [Move -, Att 0 XP, Def 3 XP, BP 9 XP, MP 6 XP], Spells: 16/19 XP* (no water), 17/20 XP* (no rock), 20 XP (no fire), or 19/22 XP* (no air); 34/37 XP*, 35/38 XP*, 38 XP, or 37/40 XP*
* Use the first value if Courage is useful for 1 attack only, or use the second if it is useful for multiple attacks.
Comparing Hero XP with Quest XP If the Heroes each draw 4 times from the treasure deck, on average they will gain 4 potions worth a total of 14 XP. Combine this with the Heroes' 131 XP. If you double that 145 XP to 290 XP, it is roughly equivalent to each value of the first few Quests. Note that the first XP value of Quest 1 is 331 XP, a good deal above the 290 XP value for the Heroes; this Quest is considered hard. The next Quests come in at an easy to moderate 238 XP and 262 XP. They are considered very achievable. The conclusion can be drawn that the XP difficulty of a Quest can guaged by doubling the XP value of the Heroes' XP, assuming an average of 4 draws of the treasure deck per Hero. I'm too tired to compare all the Quests against progressing Heroes with better dice and artifacts. Maybe someone can respond and beat me to it as a critique.
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