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Rules for "Dominate" and "Command" ?

PostPosted: Saturday March 9th, 2019 12:45pm
by Kurgan
So Zargon gain's control of a Hero due to the effects of one of these Chaos Spells (NA Game System, Ogre Horde, etc)...

They can attack, use spells and move (using their regular movement dice) against the other Heroes, obviously.

But since they are now a monster, are they:

-Able to be affected by Traps?

-Able to use potions? (this also comes up if the Hero is killed while under the effects of the spell)

If Killed, are they immediately freed ? Do they get the "saving measure" of the potion or healing spell if no action done on their turn (if freed, does this mean they have that free action now?)
Is the survival instinct such that they can even do this? Or are they still under the evil control until they do their saving roll?

Thanks for any insights!

Re: Rules for "Dominate" and "Command" ?

PostPosted: Monday March 11th, 2019 6:35am
by Maurice76
The biggest issue I'd see is that these would enable the EW kill off a Hero, without them being able to do anything about it. I can't believe that's fun for any involved, with exception of sadistic EW's and masochistic players.

Personally, I would rule that triggering Traps is most definitely possible (with all effects) as well as using any potions they have. However, should 'fatal' damage occur, I would rule that at that moment control is lost and any remaining potions may be used to bring up hitpoints again, as the player is back in control.

Re: Rules for "Dominate" and "Command" ?

PostPosted: Tuesday March 12th, 2019 6:53am
by Kurgan
We're also assuming then, that if you kill off the bad guy figure who was the source of the controlling spell, that also frees the Hero, because otherwise my motivation as another Hero player might be to kill the tainted comrade as quickly as possible, as opposed to just backing off to allow him to keep trying to roll to save himself (while being a threat to everyone else).

A dominated Wizard is going to be pretty dangerous, but have many more opportunities to escape with his high mind points, so there's that.

When I played a scenario where I basically forced the Heroes to try to "cure" an infected Hero, it was quite a contest. Of course in that scenario I basically reduced him to the powers of a Zombie rather than giving him everything he'd normally have. It wasn't quite the usual scenario we are talking about here. Interesting stuff...

So if we say the other ways to free the Hero, other than some kind of counter-active potion, or the Hero rolling out of it, were to kill the Hero or to kill the bad guy who put him in that state, that seems reasonable. If Zargon can just suicide the Hero, that is a sneaky way to force him to use a life-saving ability or item, but the real thing is we want to see one of the Heroes suddenly becoming a threat to the others, then get saved at the last minute, right? Even if somehow Zargon takes control of a Hero, wipes out all the others and is just moving this guy all over the board, that guy still is "alive" in the sense that the player can keep rolling every turn to try to get out of it, and once he does, the Hero side has a chance again...

But the wild card here is that we agree the commanded Hero can do things a monster wouldn't otherwise be able to do... opening doors... Zargon could have him go searching for stuff, knowing he'd be triggering traps and wandering monsters (that wouldn't attack him, presumably, because they're on the same side?). Then again if we were to take the card literally and minimally, it just sounds like he can move and attack other heroes, period. I want it to be threatening I just don't want to open up a scenario that breaks the game.

Re: Rules for "Dominate" and "Command" ?

PostPosted: Tuesday March 12th, 2019 3:39pm
by lestodante
I remember the card says that you can not make the Hero attack another Hero, but only move him.
So you can make it fall inside an existing trap or move far away from the other Heroes or open lot of doors (activating monsters, if any).
I think it would be cool if the EW could command a drastic action against the hero himself (like cut your own throat) or also using a spell (Rock Skin) on a monster to increase his attack/defence skills! Obviously the commanded Hero should have the chance to roll a dice to try to mentally resist such kind of actions.

Re: Rules for "Dominate" and "Command" ?

PostPosted: Tuesday March 12th, 2019 7:58pm
by Kurgan
Basically, the spell turns the Hero into a zombie, right? So if the now "evil" Hero dumps Holy water on his own head...

Re: Rules for "Dominate" and "Command" ?

PostPosted: Wednesday March 13th, 2019 7:24am
by Maurice76
Kurgan wrote:Basically, the spell turns the Hero into a zombie, right? So if the now "evil" Hero dumps Holy water on his own head...


:lol: . He's not actually an Undead :P. You could say that his muscle control is done by the EW, that the Hero in question is just a passenger in his own head for the ride, until the spell breaks. His body, though, still needs sustenance, to breathe, to use the bathroom, etc ...

Re: Rules for "Dominate" and "Command" ?

PostPosted: Monday July 1st, 2019 11:58pm
by Anderas
We had a couple of questions right now.

Situation:
An indiana stone comes fast. Dwarf enters, the Fimir plays "Control" and Dwarf stays where he is, blocking the doorway.
Image

:redorb: A controlled hero blocks the doorway. May other heroes move through the controlled hero? Yes, heroes move through other heroes without problem or no, the controlled hero is treated as a monster?
:redorb: Someone kills the Fimir. Is the dwarf free or is he still under control?

Re: Rules for "Dominate" and "Command" ?

PostPosted: Tuesday July 2nd, 2019 3:28am
by mitchiemasha
Anderas wrote: :redorb: A controlled hero blocks the doorway. May other heroes move through the controlled hero? Yes, heroes move through other heroes without problem or no, the controlled hero is treated as a monster?
:redorb: Someone kills the Fimir. Is the dwarf free or is he still under control?


The dwarf would be free, more incentive to rush the attack on the Fimir, more incentive for the Fimir to have the dwarf block the door.

I believe passing a hero normally was a choice in 1 edition but a given in the other??? I forget!
If passing a hero is a given, a player might believe that preventing them passing needs to be specified in the spell, to change the official rule
If it's a choice, the current controller gets that choice, no doubt about it.

I'd play it... The controller gets to choose, regardless!!! or perhaps... No passing at all "the controlled hero is treated as a monster!"

Re: Rules for "Dominate" and "Command" ?

PostPosted: Tuesday July 2nd, 2019 5:05am
by Maurice76
If the Dwarf is under control by the Fimir, the EW decides if he lets the other Heroes pass the Dwarf. It could be tactical to have a sole Hero enter the room and the others blocked off.

As soon as the Fimir dies, the control should be broken and the Dwarf is once again under player control. I might rule that the Dwarf can't act or perhaps only move during that turn.