• Advertisement

Ye Olde Inn is proudly hosted by

Proudly Hosted by MDD Hosting

Host your Website at MDD Hosting by clicking the logo above and Ye Olde Inn will receive a commission that we'll put toward keeping Ye Olde Inn online for everyone to enjoy!

First-player token for balancing any number of Heroes

Discuss new Rules for HeroQuest.

First-player token for balancing any number of Heroes

Postby Daedalus » Tuesday March 14th, 2017 2:53pm

Since revisiting the How many Heros?! topic, it has occurred to me it is possible to scale standard Hero Quest from 1 to as many Heroes you want to crowd on the board without calculations or guessing. The trick is to use a first-Hero token which always governs four Hero turns with one Morcar/Zargon turn.

How it works:
The first-Hero token begins next to the Hero Card of the player seated on M/Z's left (right-most Hero if the player has more than one card.) The Hero with the token takes his turn, then play passes clockwise (even between multiple Heroes of a single player) until four Heroes have had their turns. Next, M/Z takes his turn and the first-Hero token is passed counter-clockwise to the next Hero Card, plus an extra pass for each Hero over 5. The Hero with the token is now first in the new round of Hero turns.

Heroes* Round 1 Round 2 Round 3 Round 4 Round 5 Round 6 Round 7 Round 8
B B,B,B,B,
M/Z
B,B,B,B,
M/Z
B,B,B,B,
M/Z
B,B,B,B,
M/Z
B,B,B,B,
M/Z
B,B,B,B,
M/Z
B,B,B,B,
M/Z
B,B,B,B,
M/Z
B,D B,D,B,D,
M/Z
D,B,D,B,
M/Z
B,D,B,D,
M/Z
D,B,D,B,
M/Z
B,D,B,D,
M/Z
D,B,D,B,
M/Z
B,D,B,D,
M/Z
D,B,D,B,
M/Z
B,D,E B,D,E,B,
M/Z
E,B,D,E,
M/Z
D,E,B,D,
M/Z
B,D,E,B,
M/Z
E,B,D,E,
M/Z
D,E,B,D,
M/Z
B,D,E,B,
M/Z
E,B,D,E,
M/Z
B,D,E,W B,D,E,W,
M/Z
D,E,W,B,
M/Z
E,W,B,D,
M/Z
W,B,D,E,
M/Z
B,D,E,W,
M/Z
D,E,W,B,
M/Z
E,W,B,D,
M/Z
W,B,D,E,
M/Z
B,D,E,W,
B2
B,D,E,W,
M/Z
B2,B,D,E,
M/Z
W,B2,B,D,
M/Z
E,W,B2,B,
M/Z
D,E,W,B2,
M/Z
B,D,E,W,
M/Z
B2,B,D,E,
M/Z
W,B2,B,D,
M/Z
B,D,E,W,
B2,D2
B,D,E,W,
M/Z
B2,D2,B,D,
M/Z
E,W,B2,D2,
M/Z
B,D,E,W,
M/Z
B2,D2,B,D,
M/Z
E,W,B2,D2,
M/Z
B,D,E,W,
M/Z
B2,D2,B,D,
M/Z
B,D,E,W,
B2,D2,E2
B,D,E,W,
M/Z
B2,D2,E2,B,
M/Z
D,E,W,B2,
M/Z
D2,E2,B,D,
M/Z
E,W,B2,D2,
M/Z
E2,B,D,E,
M/Z
W,B2,D2,E2,
M/Z
B,D,E,W,
M/Z
B,E,D,W,
B2,D2,E2,W2
B,D,E,W,
M/Z
B2,D2,E2,W2
M/Z
B,D,E,W,
M/Z
B2,D2,E2,W2
M/Z
B,D,E,W,
M/Z
B2,D2,E2,W2
M/Z
B,D,E,W,
M/Z
B2,D2,E2,W2
M/Z

    *B2,D2,E2,W2 represent differently identified miniatures from the Main Game System, be they uniquely painted or proxy alternatives. Homebrew Heroes and figures can also be substituted into the order, such as a Ranger for B1, a Trollslayer for D2, and so on.
Admittedly, a solo Hero with four turns for every one M/Z turn is awkward, both thematically and tactically. Attacks would be very concentrated for the Hero as he moved in and out of combat, so movement should be limited to one red die for each Hero turn. One red die for movement probably would make sense for two Heroes as well. (I haven't play tested either case yet.)

Four Heroes don't require turn balancing, but a rotating first player might prove interesting enough on its own. With eight Heroes turns won't rotate, so the first-player token can be dropped. The M/Z player simply takes a turn after four Heroes have had their turns.

Finally, Hero groups of 1 to 3 will have a smaller combined pool of Body Points to finish a Quest. To compensate, one Potion of Healing may be drawn from the Treasure Cards before the Quest for each lacking Hero. These special draws may not be kept between Quests and are returned to the Treasure Card deck when used. (Potion of Healing cards drawn in-game are discarded as usual.)
..
UNCLE ZARGON
Image
WANTS.. YOU


Rewards:
Grin's Stone Map Played a turn in five (5) Play-by-Post games. Created a Hot Topic. Slain a measly Goblin! Slaughtered an Orc! Killed a mighty Fimir! Shattered a Skeleton! Destroyed a Zombie! Unravelled a Mummy!Crushed a powerful Chaos Warrior! Smashed a massive Gargoyle! Encountered all eight (8) Game System monsters. Encountered a menacing Chaos Warlock!
User avatar
Editor-in-Chief
Daedalus
Slacker Ruleslawyer

Wizard
Wizard
 
Posts: 3210
Images: 14
Joined: Monday May 9th, 2011 2:31pm
Forum Language: English (United States)
Evil Sorcerer: Zargon
Usergroups:
Wizards of Zargon Group Member Adventurers' Guild Group Member Artists Group Member Champion Group Member

Re: First-player token for balancing any number of Heroes

Postby torilen » Tuesday March 14th, 2017 8:33pm

I'll have to come back to this and read it more carefully. This is an intriguing idea, though.
Good work.


Rewards:
Hosted a Play-by-Post game. Played a turn in a Play-by-Post game. Wrote an article for the Blog. Created a Hot Topic.
torilen

Swordsman
Swordsman
 
Posts: 1849
Joined: Friday October 9th, 2009 4:18am
Location: Virginia, USA
Forum Language: English (United States)
Evil Sorcerer: Morcar
Hero:
Usergroups:
Adventurers' Guild Group Member Champion Group Member Scribes Group Member

Re: First-player token for balancing any number of Heroes

Postby whitebeard » Tuesday March 14th, 2017 8:49pm

VERY cool. I'm looking at having a 5th player every now and then because our gaming group is getting bigger. From what you have posted here, I see now how it could work. This player could "hold the torch" and only roll movement... then pass the torch on the next turn. I think I would also subtract one body point from ALL players except the wizard (although they can be healed back to the maximum later). This would keep the game moving nicely as well.


Rewards:
Participated in two (2) Miniature Exchanges. Zealot Miniatures: Twisting Catacombs Kickstarter Backer Grin's Stone Map Destroyed a Zombie! Smashed a massive Gargoyle!
whitebeard

Giant Wolf
Giant Wolf
 
Posts: 767
Images: 0
Joined: Friday September 12th, 2014 7:15pm
Forum Language: English (United States)
Evil Sorcerer: Zargon
Usergroups:
Artists Group Member Champion Group Member

Re: First-player token for balancing any number of Heroes

Postby cornixt » Wednesday March 15th, 2017 9:47am

That seems a little complicated. Have you seen the Imperial Assault method of giving extra turns? It's much simpler.


Rewards:
Destroyed a Zombie!
cornixt

Orc Shaman
Orc Shaman
 
Posts: 388
Joined: Tuesday November 4th, 2014 12:56pm
Forum Language: British English
Evil Sorcerer: Morcar
Hero:
Usergroups:
Champion Group Member

Re: First-player token for balancing any number of Heroes

Postby mitchiemasha » Wednesday March 15th, 2017 12:58pm

Why not make it a simple rotation. Who ever is next that didn't go last time plays first. Stay clock wise. EW plays after every 4 turns.

OR if you want play order to change

Use initiative linked with Mind. Who ever bids the most goes 1st. If you don't play this round you get yours back. Meaning you have more to bid next round. Those with the greater Mind will now get out of sticker situations easier, when needed, unlike the Barbarian who'll have to stay and fight. In our game we have counter attack abilities too so even better.

If bids are tied, highest MP goes first, if still tied, roll.

Initiative could be represented by a 1d6. Each player has 6, if you bid 4 and play, next go you'll have 2. But a lil more thought and testing would be needed on this idea.


Rewards:
Destroyed a Zombie! Encountered a menacing Chaos Warlock!
mitchiemasha

Scout
Scout
 
Posts: 1020
Joined: Thursday August 14th, 2014 2:05am
Forum Language: British English
Evil Sorcerer: Morcar
Hero:
Usergroups:
Champion Group Member

Re: First-player token for balancing any number of Heroes

Postby Daedalus » Wednesday March 15th, 2017 4:09pm

whitebeard wrote:VERY cool. I'm looking at having a 5th player every now and then because our gaming group is getting bigger. From what you have posted here, I see now how it could work. This player could "hold the torch" and only roll movement... then pass the torch on the next turn. I think I would also subtract one body point from ALL players except the wizard (although they can be healed back to the maximum later). This would keep the game moving nicely as well.

The torch idea is nice--it keeps the group cohesive. The Body Point penalty for larger groups also makes sense as the converse of allowing Potions of Healing for smaller groups.

cornixt wrote:That seems a little complicated. Have you seen the Imperial Assault method of giving extra turns? It's much simpler.

It's been a while. I'll check it out.

mitchiemasha wrote:Why not make it a simple rotation. Who ever is next that didn't go last time plays first. Stay clock wise. EW plays after every 4 turns.

D'oh! :x Why didn't I think of that?! I was so focused on passing the token that I lost the HQ way--thanks!
..
UNCLE ZARGON
Image
WANTS.. YOU


Rewards:
Grin's Stone Map Played a turn in five (5) Play-by-Post games. Created a Hot Topic. Slain a measly Goblin! Slaughtered an Orc! Killed a mighty Fimir! Shattered a Skeleton! Destroyed a Zombie! Unravelled a Mummy!Crushed a powerful Chaos Warrior! Smashed a massive Gargoyle! Encountered all eight (8) Game System monsters. Encountered a menacing Chaos Warlock!
User avatar
Editor-in-Chief
Daedalus
Slacker Ruleslawyer

Wizard
Wizard
 
Posts: 3210
Images: 14
Joined: Monday May 9th, 2011 2:31pm
Forum Language: English (United States)
Evil Sorcerer: Zargon
Usergroups:
Wizards of Zargon Group Member Adventurers' Guild Group Member Artists Group Member Champion Group Member

Re: First-player token for balancing any number of Heroes

Postby whitebeard » Wednesday March 15th, 2017 5:32pm

Daedalus wrote:
mitchiemasha wrote:Why not make it a simple rotation. Who ever is next that didn't go last time plays first. Stay clock wise. EW plays after every 4 turns.

D'oh! :x Why didn't I think of that?! I was so focused on passing the token that I lost the HQ way--thanks!


I thought this was what you were doing although it appeared you were passing it CCW?

There is a "Torch Card" that is used to mark the first player in the new Warhammer Quest (Hammerhal), I have not played it yet, but I would grab the card or create a prop for this. And you would just pass it down the row with the torch bearer being the player with the last turn and they can only move (and search?).

I really like this for larger groups, but I don't think I like the way it will work with smaller groups. Consecutive turns for one hero seems a bit too much. If I had just one player, I think it would be best to roll to see if EWP gets a turn, with Zargon waiting at most 4 turns This will reduce ridiculous maneuvers where you would otherwise be surrounded on four sides by EWP.


Rewards:
Participated in two (2) Miniature Exchanges. Zealot Miniatures: Twisting Catacombs Kickstarter Backer Grin's Stone Map Destroyed a Zombie! Smashed a massive Gargoyle!
whitebeard

Giant Wolf
Giant Wolf
 
Posts: 767
Images: 0
Joined: Friday September 12th, 2014 7:15pm
Forum Language: English (United States)
Evil Sorcerer: Zargon
Usergroups:
Artists Group Member Champion Group Member

Re: First-player token for balancing any number of Heroes

Postby cynthialee » Wednesday March 15th, 2017 10:14pm

It just doesn't work well for less players, especially with just 1 player.
It may make for a really powerful warrior, but the wizard will blow through his spells in a handful of rooms. Also a string of dart trap and small pit hazard cards in a row and even the Barbarian is in serious trouble in short order...

Now for a 5 man or larger group, I can certainly see the mechanic being useful, but I can also see it extending the boredom in certain circumstances.
So it is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you can win a hundred battles without a single loss.
If you only know yourself, but not your opponent, you may win or may lose.
If you know neither yourself nor your enemy, you will always endanger yourself.
~Sun Tsu The art of War~


Rewards:
Created a Hot Topic.
cynthialee

Crossbowman
Crossbowman
 
Posts: 1685
Images: 4
Joined: Tuesday September 27th, 2011 10:56am
Location: the forests of Washington State
Forum Language: English (United States)
Evil Sorcerer: Zargon
Hero:
Usergroups:
Adventurers' Guild Group Member Champion Group Member

Re: First-player token for balancing any number of Heroes

Postby Goblin-King » Thursday March 16th, 2017 3:22am

Fully agree with cynthia here.
Even goblins will quickly whittle down a single barbarian if they only focus on him.
For single heroes it's just better to just make dedicated solo quests in my opinion (I understand that's not really the point of this topic though ;) )

But of course the opposite problem kinda arises with more than 4 heroes. Even though they move in groups of four the monsters are still relatively weaker as they are up against more body points.
How would activating heroes in groups of 3 work out?
B-W-D M E-B2-W2 M

That would allow the monsters more staying power to compensate for the increased hero BPs.


Rewards:
Created a Hot Topic. Participated in four (4) Miniature Exchanges. Destroyed a Zombie! Encountered a menacing Chaos Warlock!
User avatar
Ye Olde Judge Dredd
Goblin-King
Really looks like David Bowie

Polar Warbear
Polar Warbear
 
Posts: 3300
Images: 84
Joined: Monday September 26th, 2011 2:54pm
Location: Sønderholm, Denmark
Forum Language: British English
Evil Sorcerer: Morcar
Hero:
Usergroups:
Wizards of Zargon Group Member Adventurers' Guild Group Member Artists Group Member Champion Group Member

Re: First-player token for balancing any number of Heroes

Postby Gold Bearer » Thursday March 16th, 2017 8:16am

Daedalus wrote:Since revisiting the How many Heros?! topic, it has occurred to me it is possible to scale standard Hero Quest from 1 to as many Heroes you want to crowd on the board without calculations or guessing. The trick is to use a first-Hero token which always governs four Hero turns with one Morcar/Zargon turn...
mitchiemasha wrote:Why not make it a simple rotation. Who ever is next that didn't go last time plays first. Stay clock wise. EW plays after every 4 turns.

OR if you want play order to change

Use initiative linked with Mind. Who ever bids the most goes 1st. If you don't play this round you get yours back. Meaning you have more to bid next round. Those with the greater Mind will now get out of sticker situations easier, when needed, unlike the Barbarian who'll have to stay and fight. In our game we have counter attack abilities too so even better.

If bids are tied, highest MP goes first, if still tied, roll.

Initiative could be represented by a 1d6. Each player has 6, if you bid 4 and play, next go you'll have 2. But a lil more thought and testing would be needed on this idea.
I go into this kind of thing here: viewtopic.php?f=38&t=3256&p=63995&hilit=initiative#p63995.
Last edited by Goblin-King on Saturday March 18th, 2017 5:43am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Deleted disrespectful comment
Football's coming home.

:goblin: 1BP, :orc: 2BP, :fimir: 3BP, :skeleton: 1BP, :zombie: 2BP, :mummy: 3BP, :chaoswarrior: 4BP, :gargoyle: 5BP. US :chaoswarrior: 3BP, US :gargoyle: 4BP.

Combined Spells: viewtopic.php?f=38&t=2454

Wanna learn martial arts? Check out my youtube channel, tutorials coming soon. Most popular video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ie6BkN-3E

Door to higher dimensions - DMT, Spirit Molecule: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtT6Xkk-kzk


Rewards:
Grin's Stone Map Hosted a Play-by-Post game. Played a turn in five (5) Play-by-Post games. Created a Hot Topic. Slain a measly Goblin! Slaughtered an Orc! Killed a mighty Fimir! Destroyed a Zombie! Shattered a Skeleton! Unravelled a Mummy! Crushed a powerful Chaos Warrior! Encountered a menacing Chaos Warlock!
User avatar
Gold Bearer

Crossbowman
Crossbowman
 
Posts: 1629
Joined: Monday June 4th, 2012 4:21pm
Forum Language: British English
Evil Sorcerer: Morcar
Hero:
Usergroups:
Adventurers' Guild Group Member Champion Group Member

Next

Return to Rules

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: CommonCrawl [Bot] and 0 guests