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Apprentice Spell System

Discuss new Rules for HeroQuest.

Apprentice Spell System

Postby slev » Thursday June 2nd, 2016 12:35pm

Based on an idea elsewhere…

A simple spell system that can be followed by younger players.

Rules:
Every caster has a “Spellcraft”: 3 for the Wizard, 1 for the Elf. Others have a zero, just to allow expansion.
At the start of a player’s turn, they draw cards from the Spell Deck until they have a full hand of Spells.
Hand Limit is the player’s Spellcraft.

List of Spell Ideas (partial, there should be 54 Spells in total):
Fireball: Ranged attack, white equal to Spellcraft, target cannot defend.
Fireblast: Melee attack, white equal to twice Spellcraft, target cannot defend.
Bravery: Adjacent Hero adds white equal to the casters Spellcraft to all their attacks until no monsters in LoS.
Efreet: Ranged attack, white equal to twice Spellcraft.
Djinn: teleport number of figures up to spellcraft.
Tempest: as basic
Water of Life: Target in LoS recovers lost BP equal to caster’s Spellcraft
Veil of Mist: as basic
Sleep: as basic, but target has to roll over caster’s Spellcraft to break the Spell.
Restore Body: caster or adjacent target recovers lost BP equal to caster’s Spellcraft
Rock Skin: As basic
Pass Through Rock: As basic



Enchanter's Emporium - additional shop
Grimoire: +1 Spellcraft, not Barbarian, cannot use more than one.
Magic Ring: +1 Hand Limit for Spells, not Barbarian, cannot use more than one.
Magic Wand: Count Spellcraft as +1 for Spell Effects only, Wizard and Elf only, cannot use more than one.
Crystal Ball: At the start of your turn draw one extra Spell and then discard one Spell. Wizard Only.


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Re: Apprentice Spell System

Postby slev » Thursday June 2nd, 2016 3:45pm

List of Spell Ideas
partial, there should be 54 Spells in total.

Fireball: Ranged attack, white equal to Spellcraft, target cannot defend.
Fireblast: Melee attack, white equal to twice Spellcraft, target cannot defend.
Bravery: Adjacent Hero adds white equal to the casters Spellcraft to all their attacks until no monsters in LoS.
Efreet: Ranged attack, white equal to twice Spellcraft.
Djinn: teleport number of figures up to spellcraft.
Storm: Select a number of figures in line of sight equal to or less than your Spellcraft. These figures miss their next turn.
Water of Life: Target in LoS recovers lost BP equal to caster’s Spellcraft
Veil of Mist: Caster may re-roll a number of dice equal to their Spellcrafteach time they defend. This lasts until they suffer any BP damage.
Dreamshroud: Select a number of figures in line of sight equal to or less than your Spellcraft. These figures may not defend until the end of your next turn.
Restore Body: caster or adjacent target recovers lost BP equal to caster’s Spellcraft
Flesh of Stone: Caster adds white equal to their Spellcraft to all their defence rolls until they suffer any BP damage.
Worldwalking: The next time the Caster moves, they may pass through a number of walls and/or enemy figures equal to or less then twice their Spellcraft. They may not enter unexplored areas this way.
Counterspell: Place this card with any one Hero. Whenever that Hero is the target of a Spell or Magical Trap, they may discard this card instead of being affected.
Shield of Stone: Place a number of Walls of Stone on the game boar equal to half (round up) your Spellcraft.
Æther Form: Place this card in front of you with a number of markers equal to your Spellcraft. You may discard these markers instead of losing Body Points. Once there are no markers on this card, discard it.
See Future: Place this card in front of you with a number of markers equal to twice your Spellcraft. You may discard these markers to re-roll one die each. Once there are no markers on this card, discard it.
Crystal Ball: Chose a number of unrevealed rooms equal you your Spellcraft.
Seek Treasure: Draw a number of Treasure Cards equal to twice your Spellcraft. Pick a number of them equal to your SPellcraft and resolve them. Shuffle any remaining Hazards back into the Treasure Deck and discard the rest.
Darkblast: Ranged attack, white equal to Spellcraft, target defends with white = MP.
Shadow Lash: melee attack, white equal to twice Spellcraft, target defends with white = MP.
Shadow Field: Place this card in front of you with a number of markers equal to twice your Spellcraft. You may discard these markers to force an attacking enemy to re-roll one die each. Once there are no markers on this card, discard it.
Wrack Mind: Ranged attack, white equal to Spellcraft. Damage is MP.
Calm Spirit: Figures within your Line of Sight recover a number of MP between them equal to your Spellcraft.
Turn enemy: Pick a number of enemy figures equal to or less then your Spellcraft. You may use those figures as Men-at-Arms this turn.


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Re: Apprentice Spell System

Postby Count Mohawk » Thursday June 2nd, 2016 10:13pm

Ah, an Apprentice spell system. Then I suppose your and Anderas's system involving Spell Mastery would be a "Journeyman Spell System"? :roll: :D |_P
slev wrote:Based on an idea elsewhere…

A simple spell system that can be followed by younger players.

Rules:
Every caster has a “Spellcraft”: 3 for the Wizard, 1 for the Elf. Others have a zero, just to allow expansion.
At the start of a player’s turn, they draw cards from the Spell Deck until they have a full hand of Spells.
Hand Limit is the player’s Spellcraft.

So the 'Spellcraft' value does two important things: it increases the versatility of the caster (more hand size means better access to the right magic at the right time), and it also increases the power of many of the spells you listed above. My initial impression: I think that doing this puts too much weight on a single characteristic value, putting Quadratic Wizards into play in a bad way. To counterbalance this concern, I would suggest changing either the character's hand size or the power level of the spells to rely more on the number of Mind Points rather that the Hero's Spellcraft. (I might be wrong, though, if 4-6 hand size turns out to be too good)

A couple of other thoughts:
  • While the Wizard is indeed more powerful with this system in place, the Elf also gets a sizeable boost, since he too benefits from potentially infinite spell use. I was about to say that he was unquestionably the best character, but then I remembered that his Spells are much less powerful than those of the Wizard, which helps keep him in line. Magic as a whole seems better, which is probably for the best.
  • You'll want to have a good balance between attack spells, defense spells, utility spells and healing spells. Attacks should probably be the most common type, since they're the ones that get used up most quickly and the ones the Wizard will want most frequently. And let's face it, who doesn't like to blow away monsters with magical fireballs and such?
  • Conversely, don't put too much healing into your decks. There should definitely be at least a few healing cards available; even in base form, healing is one of the few things the Wizard can do that no other Hero really gets access to (except maybe the Elf, if he gets the Spell Ring), and healing Spells are far and away the most powerful type (although area-of-effects come in a close second). If a low-Spellcraft Hero draws a Healing spell early, however, he'll probably hold onto it for a while to maximize its benefit, which may clog his hand and prevent him from casting anything else for a while. Also, too many healing Spells remove the danger from the Quest and make completing it without losing a Hero relatively trivial.
  • Related to the previous point, don't let the Heroes freely discard and draw Spells without having to pay some sort of real price. If you reshuffle the Spell deck when it runs out, munchkinly Heroes will sit outside the door looking for healing and buffing Spells to recharge before each encounter. The problem is less pervasive with a finite Spell deck, although some would say that not reshuffling comes with its own problems.


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Re: Apprentice Spell System

Postby slev » Friday June 3rd, 2016 5:02am

Count Mohawk wrote:Ah, an Apprentice spell system. Then I suppose your and Anderas's system involving Spell Mastery would be a "Journeyman Spell System"? :roll: :D |_P

Journeyman would be the "classic" system.

Count Mohawk wrote:So the 'Spellcraft' value does two important things: it increases the versatility of the caster (more hand size means better access to the right magic at the right time), and it also increases the power of many of the spells you listed above. My initial impression: I think that doing this puts too much weight on a single characteristic value, putting Quadratic Wizards into play in a bad way. To counterbalance this concern, I would suggest changing either the character's hand size or the power level of the spells to rely more on the number of Mind Points rather that the Hero's Spellcraft. (I might be wrong, though, if 4-6 hand size turns out to be too good)


Fair point. In this case, we'd have "Spellcraft", and seperately, the hand size can be half (round up) the current MP. Thus the Wizard starts with 4 cards, the elf with three, but the Wizard's cards are far more potent.


Count Mohawk wrote:[*]You'll want to have a good balance between attack spells, defense spells, utility spells and healing spells. Attacks should probably be the most common type, since they're the ones that get used up most quickly and the ones the Wizard will want most frequently. And let's face it, who doesn't like to blow away monsters with magical fireballs and such?
[*]Conversely, don't put too much healing into your decks. There should definitely be at least a few healing cards available; even in base form, healing is one of the few things the Wizard can do that no other Hero really gets access to (except maybe the Elf, if he gets the Spell Ring), and healing Spells are far and away the most powerful type (although area-of-effects come in a close second). If a low-Spellcraft Hero draws a Healing spell early, however, he'll probably hold onto it for a while to maximize its benefit, which may clog his hand and prevent him from casting anything else for a while. Also, too many healing Spells remove the danger from the Quest and make completing it without losing a Hero relatively trivial.
[*]Related to the previous point, don't let the Heroes freely discard and draw Spells without having to pay some sort of real price. If you reshuffle the Spell deck when it runs out, munchkinly Heroes will sit outside the door looking for healing and buffing Spells to recharge before each encounter. The problem is less pervasive with a finite Spell deck, although some would say that not reshuffling comes with its own problems.[/list]


All good points.
[*]the ballence of spells is the next thing in the deck. I was going to either duplicate the spells I've already done, or come up with a broader selection, including that ballence.
[*]as the system is designed for younger players, I'd not consciened them having the patience to cycle the deck. If using it with older players, you can institute an EWP deck with this, to prevent the faffing.


The list currently:

4x Fireball: Ranged attack, white equal to Spellcraft, target cannot defend.
3x Fireblast: Melee attack, white equal to twice Spellcraft, target cannot defend.
2x Bravery: Adjacent Hero adds white equal to the casters Spellcraft to all their attacks until no monsters in LoS.
4x Efreet: Ranged attack, white equal to twice Spellcraft.
2x Djinn: teleport number of figures up to spellcraft.
2x Storm: Select a number of figures in line of sight equal to or less than your Spellcraft. These figures miss their next turn.
1x Water of Life: Target in LoS recovers lost BP equal to caster’s Spellcraft
2x Veil of Mist: Caster may re-roll a number of dice equal to their Spellcrafteach time they defend. This lasts until they suffer any BP damage.
2x Dreamshroud: Select a number of figures in line of sight equal to or less than your Spellcraft. These figures may not defend until the end of your next turn.
3x Restore Body: caster or adjacent target recovers lost BP equal to caster’s Spellcraft
2x Flesh of Stone: Caster adds white equal to their Spellcraft to all their defence rolls until they suffer any BP damage.
2x Worldwalking: The next time the Caster moves, they may pass through a number of walls and/or enemy figures equal to or less then twice their Spellcraft. They may not enter unexplored areas this way.
1x Counterspell: Place this card with any one Hero. Whenever that Hero is the target of a Spell or Magical Trap, they may discard this card instead of being affected.
2x Shield of Stone: Place a number of Walls of Stone on the game boar equal to half (round up) your Spellcraft.
2x Æther Form: Place this card in front of you with a number of markers equal to your Spellcraft. You may discard these markers instead of losing Body Points. Once there are no markers on this card, discard it.
2x See Future: Place this card in front of you with a number of markers equal to twice your Spellcraft. You may discard these markers to re-roll one die each. Once there are no markers on this card, discard it.
1x Scrying: Chose a number of unrevealed rooms equal you your Spellcraft.
1x Seek Treasure: Draw a number of Treasure Cards equal to twice your Spellcraft. Pick a number of them equal to your SPellcraft and resolve them. Shuffle any remaining Hazards back into the Treasure Deck and discard the rest.
5x Darkblast: Ranged attack, white equal to Spellcraft, target defends with white = MP.
3x Shadow Lash: melee attack, white equal to twice Spellcraft, target defends with white = MP.
3x Shadow Field: Place this card in front of you with a number of markers equal to twice your Spellcraft. You may discard these markers to force an attacking enemy to re-roll one die each. Once there are no markers on this card, discard it.
2x Wrack Mind: Ranged attack, white equal to Spellcraft. Damage is MP.
1x Calm Spirit: Figures within your Line of Sight recover a number of MP between them equal to your Spellcraft.
2x Turn enemy: Pick a number of enemy figures equal to or less then your Spellcraft. You may use those figures as Men-at-Arms this turn.[/quote]


Enchanter's Emporium - additional shop
Broach of Mastery: +1 Hand Limit for Spells, Wizard Only, cannot use more than one.
Crystal Ball: At the start of your turn draw one extra Spell and then discard one Spell. Wizard Only, cannot use more than one.
Energy Jewel: Discard when you cast a Spell. Your Spellcraft counts as one point higher for this casting only.
Magic Wand: Spellcraft +1, Wizard and Elf only, cannot use more than one.
Ring of Power: +1 Hand Limit for Spells, not Barbarian, cannot use more than one.
Spell Grimoire: +1 Spellcraft, not Barbarian, cannot use more than one.


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Re: Apprentice Spell System

Postby slev » Friday June 3rd, 2016 5:43am

Optional addition to teh Enchanter's emporium. This requires the use of HQR-syle keywords.

Physical Focus: When using a Spell with the Elemental Keyword, count your Spellcraft as one point higher, Wizard and Dwarf only, cannot use more than one.

Mental Focus: When using a Spell with the Philosophic Keyword, count your Spellcraft as one point higher, Wizard and Elf only, cannot use more than one.


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Re: Apprentice Spell System

Postby Gold Bearer » Friday June 3rd, 2016 5:54am

If you want some quick spell ideas to steal. viewtopic.php?f=38&t=2454 ;)
:goblin: 1BP, :orc: 2BP, :fimir: 3BP, :skeleton: 1BP, :zombie: 2BP, :mummy: 3BP, :chaoswarrior: 4BP, :gargoyle: 5BP. US :chaoswarrior: 3BP, US :gargoyle: 4BP.

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Re: Apprentice Spell System

Postby slev » Friday June 3rd, 2016 6:28am

thx.

I've also the 84 extra spells I added for HQR!

The problem is keeoing them simpel enough that they can be parsed by the younger kids, and getting them based off of Spellcraft values.
Last edited by slev on Friday June 3rd, 2016 7:56am, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: Apprentice Spell System

Postby Gold Bearer » Friday June 3rd, 2016 7:00am

Oh yea, I forgot that was you. :) I think those spells are the pdf file sitting on my desktop. I can't open it because I haven't got photoshop. I downloaded a free program but it doesn't run on xp so I need an older version. :roll:
:goblin: 1BP, :orc: 2BP, :fimir: 3BP, :skeleton: 1BP, :zombie: 2BP, :mummy: 3BP, :chaoswarrior: 4BP, :gargoyle: 5BP. US :chaoswarrior: 3BP, US :gargoyle: 4BP.

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Re: Apprentice Spell System

Postby slev » Friday June 3rd, 2016 7:54am

Gold Bearer wrote:Oh yea, I forgot that was you. :) I think those spells are the pdf file sitting on my desktop. I can't open it because I haven't got photoshop. I downloaded a free program but it doesn't run on xp so I need an older version. :roll:


I released those in .jpg format...


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Re: Apprentice Spell System

Postby slev » Friday June 3rd, 2016 11:22am

After a lot of maths, updated spell list. In HQR-style notation for clarity..

(3x) Fireball
Spell Magic Memory Fire Elemental
╏, ╱: ╣(┘=Spellcraft)░.

(2x) Fireblast
Spell Magic Memory Fire Elemental
╏, ╱: ╠(┘┘=Spellcraft)░.

(1x) Bravery
Spell Magic Memory Fire Elemental
╏, ╱: The caster or one adjacent Hero gains ╠+(┘=casters Spellcraft). This effect lasts until there are no monsters in Line of Sight of the target.

(3x) Efreet
Spell Magic Memory Air Elemental
╏, ╱: ╣(┘┘=Spellcraft).

(2x) Djinn
Spell Magic Memory Air Elemental
╏, ╱: A number of figures up to your Spellcraft are moved from inside your Line of Sight to any other revealed space on the game board.

(1x) Storm
Spell Magic Memory Air Elemental
╏, ╱: Select a number of figures in line of sight up to your Spellcraft. These figures miss their next Activation.

(1x) Water of Life
Spell Magic Memory Water Elemental
╏, ╱: Any one target in Line of Sight recovers a number of lost up to the caster’s Spellcraft.

(2x) Veil of Mist
Spell Magic Memory Water Elemental
╏, ╱: Caster may re-roll a number of dice up to their Spellcraft each time they defend. This lasts until they suffer any damage. Any given die roll may only be re-rolled once.

(3x) Dreamshroud
Spell Magic Memory Water Elemental
╏, ╱: Select a number of figures in line of sight up to your Spellcraft. These figures may not defend until the end of your next turn.

3x Restore Body
Spell Magic Memory Earth Elemental
╏, ╱: The Caster or one target adjacent figure recovers a number of lost up to the caster’s Spellcraft.

(1x) Flesh of Stone
Spell Magic Memory Earth Elemental
╏, ╱: Caster gains ╎+(┘=Spellcraft) until they suffer any damage.

(2x) Worldwalking
Spell Magic Memory Earth Elemental
╏, ╱: The next time the Caster moves, they may pass through a number of walls and/or enemy figures up to twice their Spellcraft. They may not enter unexplored areas this way.

(2x) Counterspell
Spell Magic Memory Protection Philosophic
╏, ╱: Place this card with any one Hero. Whenever the Hero with this card in front of them is the target of a Spell or Magical Trap, they may discard this card instead of being affected.

(2x) Shield of Stone
Spell Magic Memory Protection Philosophic
╏, ╱: Place a number of Walls of Stone on the game board up half (round up) your Spellcraft.

(2x) Æther Form
Spell Magic Memory Protection Philosophic
╏, ╱: Place this card in front of you with a number of markers equal to your Spellcraft. You may discard these markers instead of losing . Once there are no markers on this card, discard it.

(3x) See Future
Spell Magic Memory Detection Philosophic
╏, ╱: Place this card in front of you with a number of markers = twice your Spellcraft. You may discard these markers to re-roll one die each. Once there are no markers on this card, discard it. Any given die roll may only be re-rolled once.

(2x) Scrying
Spell Magic Memory Detection Philosophic
╏, ╱: Chose a number of unrevealed rooms equal you your Spellcraft. The Evil Sorcerer Player reveals the contents of those room

(1x) Seek Treasure
Spell Magic Memory Detection Philosophic
╏, ╱: Draw a number of Treasure Cards equal to twice your Spellcraft. Pick a number of them equal to your Spellcraft and resolve them. Shuffle any remaining Hazards back into the Treasure Deck, then discard the rest.

(3x) Darkblast
Spell Magic Memory Darkness Philosophic
╏, ╱: ╣(┘=Spellcraft), target defends with ┘=.

(2x) Shadow Lash
Spell Magic Memory Darkness Philosophic
╏, ╱: ╠(┘┘=Spellcraft), target defends with ┘ = .

(1x) Shadow Field
Spell Magic Memory Darkness Philosophic
╏, ╱: Place this card in front of you with a number of markers equal to twice your Spellcraft. You may discard these markers to force an attacking enemy to re-roll one die each. Once there are no markers on this card, discard it. Any given die roll may only be re-rolled once.

(3x) Wrack Mind
Spell Magic Memory Control Philosophic
╏, ╱: ╣(┘=Spellcraft)╴.

(1x) Calm Spirit
Spell Magic Memory Control Philosophic
╏, ╱: Figures within your Line of Sight recover a number of between them equal to your Spellcraft.

(2x) Turn enemy
Spell Magic Memory Control Philosophic
╏, ╱: Pick a number of enemy figures up to your Spellcraft. You may use those figures as Men-at-Arms this turn.

(2x) Dark Fire
Spell Magic Memory Fire Darkness Elemental Philosophic
╏, ╱: ╣(┘=Spellcraft+1)░.

(2x) Frost Touch
Spell Magic Water Control Elemental Philosophic
╏, ╱: ╠(=Spellcraft).

(2x) Frost Touch
Spell Magic Air Darkness Elemental Philosophic
╏, ╱: ╠(┘=Spellcraft+2)╋.


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