How to Get the Most Variety Out of the Basic HQ dice

[cornixt]

For the basis of this I will use the following abbreviations: S = Skull, W = White shield, B = Black shield
The magic items and monsters below are purely examples of how the rules can be used.

The basic HQ dice is S,S,S,W,W,B. so 3/6 chance of hitting, 2/6 chance of hero defending, and 1/6 chance of monster defending (I will stick with x/6 terminology rather than simplfying the fractions). The variation in the base game was purely based on the number of dice rolled for each action. For some people this is not granular enough, so let's look at several different ways to use only those dice but have much more variety in the results.

Rerolls
These are the simplest. You can allow players to reroll one, two, all dice, all black shields, etc, or force them to reroll successes. This produces a lot of variety and doesn't change any fundamental part of the game. Two dice with a one die reroll is slightly worse than a 3 dice roll, being statistically the same as allowing only a max of two skulls if the player only chooses to reroll misses. Two dice with the chance of rerolling both skews the dice average to be better.
Magic sword - Roll three combat dice to attack. You may reroll one attack dice per turn.
Big shield - Roll one extra combat dice to defend. Attackers must reroll one skull result before you defend.
Sneaky Gobbo - May reroll defence dice once per turn.

Switcheroo
Rather than relying on skulls=attack and shield=defense, you have items and skills that can use the other dice results as a success. You can combine them or use them on their own, allowing for a full range of values on a single die (1,2,3,4,5,6 = B, W, S, S+B, S+W, S+W+B). One drawback is that you have to remember that you are looking for a different result on the dice than normal.
Deathspear - Roll two dice to attack. White shields count as skulls.
Demon - Rolls two dice to defend, where skulls also count as black shields.
Slug - Attacks with one combat die. Hits with black shields instead of skulls.

Detriments and Extras
A variant on the switcheroo. Not content with a simple attack, then how about weapons that harm the user or do super attacks?
Cursed Sword - Roll three combat dice to attack. A roll of a black shield makes the bearer lose one body point.
Evil Sword - Roll three combat dice to attack. A roll of a black shield counts as two hits.
Absorbing Orb - Roll one extra die in defense. If it is a skull, the orb is destroyed but the body point is saved.

Best of
The monster/hero rolls several dice, but can't use the results of all of them.
Serpent Blade - Roll four combat dice to attack, but ignore the result of one die of your choice.

Roll Up
Repeatedly roll until a failure/success.
Hydra Axe - Roll one combat die to attack. Roll again if the result is a skull, adding this to the total number of hits. Repeat until you get a non-skull result.
Mist Shield - May not have any other armour or shields. Roll 3 dice in defense. Add up the number of white shields rolled, then reroll any white shields again, adding this number to the previous total. Repeat until no white shields are rolled.

[knightkrawler]

That's what I'm talking about. No need to go on a spending spree for fancy dice in colors that have nothing to do with what they attempt to convey.

[cynthialee]

It works.

That Mist Shield is rather spiffy. I could see it being the most argued over Artifact in a group.

[cornixt]

That's what I'm talking about. No need to go on a spending spree for fancy dice in colors that have nothing to do with what they attempt to convey.

Yeah, I started writing a reply to one of those and realised that it would serve better if I explained my thoughts as a standalone. While I see the benefit of simplicity with using the various coloured dice, I don't think they are really necessary if you want to add more depth to certain items. It just pushes the associated rules out of reach of everyone else.

[knightkrawler]

For me, it's more romantic or nostalgic. The original dice are THE prop that springs to mind when I think of HeroQuest.
Those things have to be defended.
The post was necessary, so thanks for doing that.

[Count Mohawk]

Ah, this is a very useful thread. A couple of thoughts though:

Rerolls
These are the simplest. You can allow players to reroll one, two, all dice, all black shields, etc, or force them to reroll successes. This produces a lot of variety and doesn't change any fundamental part of the game. Two dice with a one die reroll is slightly worse than a 3 dice roll, being statistically the same as allowing only a max of two skulls if the player only chooses to reroll misses. Two dice with the chance of rerolling both skews the dice average to be better.
Magic sword - Roll three combat dice to attack. You may reroll one attack dice per turn.

Best of
The monster/hero rolls several dice, but can't use the results of all of them.
Serpent Blade - Roll four combat dice to attack, but ignore the result of one die of your choice.

These two concepts have exactly the same expected outcomes. Incidentally, a full, unconditional reroll is only very slightly worse than outright rolling an extra die. To exemplify this point, suppose you attack with the Serpent Blade one time, and a normal Battle Axe another time. If the dice show the same faces for both weapons, the only time the Serpent Blade will come out worse is if the result is four skulls, a 3.2% chance.

In approximately ascending order, the value of various different buffs, assuming you're rolling 3 dice and looking for skulls:

• Normal roll with no modifiers: 1.500
• Count a black shield as a skull on one specific die, chosen in advance: 1.667
• Reroll one black shield: 1.711
• Reroll one specific die, chosen in advance: 1.750
• Reroll all black shields: 1.800
• Reroll one white shield: 1.852
• Option to reroll your entire roll once: 1.922*
• Reroll any one die: 1.938
• Reroll your entire roll once and take the better of the two: 1.969
• Count black shields as skulls: 2.000
• Roll one extra die (4 total): 2.000
• Reroll each separate die once each: 2.250
• Count black shields as TWO skulls: 2.500
• Reroll all skulls until non-skull rolled, taking the sum of all skulls rolled: 3.000

• Reroll your entire roll once and take the worse of the two: 1.031

*This result assumes the player rerolls if he gets 0 or 1 skulls. Note that the result is worse than just keeping the first roll only 3/64 = 4.7% of the time, if he rerolls on 1 and gets 0 back.

This isn't meant to be an exhaustive list, but I trust it illustrates the relative value and granularity of the various different ways to roll normal white combat dice.

Also, for the "choose a die in advance" modifiers, if you don't mind defacing your dice a little, one way to ensure you know which die you chose without having to roll it separately would be to take a highlighter or marker and color the white of the dice, so you can tell which one is 'special'.

[Anderas]

Not to forget the opportunities to influence the opponent.

Fast as a lightning strike: The target rolls a defense die less. (two, three, as you like)
The target has to reroll his defense roll if you want. (of only a single die of two)

And so on

[Tott]

yeah the classic combat dice are - simply put - the best. they don't need changing and they don't need double shields/skull variants. you can change what the results mean so many different ways with just a few words added to the items description. i think your better off being very careful and deliberate with the wording of your item to give you much more varied play.
one I'm particularly fond of is what i like to think of as a critical hit:
Big Sword - 3 cd in attack, if you roll three or more skulls your opponent may not defend.
fast sword - 3 cd in attack, if you roll three or more skulls, you may attack again. (but your oppnent may defend again)
sharp sword - 3 cd in attack, if you roll 3 or more skulls, you may reroll each skull and add any new skulls to your total attack.

three items with fairly similar mechanics, but when you actually look at the maths there's a massive amount of difference

[Anderas]

If you open your mind, you will see a lot of added possibilities with the methods mentioned above AND the additional dices.

Basis for my thoughts is not only to have opportunities, but also to remove the need for any explanation if possible. I would readily replace the sentence "a black shield counts as two skulls" with a dice that actually shows two skulls, even if the result on the table is the same.

But then another thought kicks in. I don't like flat probabilities like with a single die. Two dices are better as the result is a little more reliable. Three dices are even better because now you get close to something similar of a gauss curve.

Four dice, however, are already too reliable for my taste. There shall be enough uncertainty remaining.

This is where all the special rules and special dices come into play. You can formulate a lot of weapons only with two or three dices, if you make full use of the colored dices and all the special rules count Mohawk was presenting.
you can introduce unreliable all or nothing weapons, like a triple morning star, by using three dices with double skulls and a forced reroll of all single skulls. Or you can introduce a master forged slim fencing blade with one white and one black die, and one reroll. It will have a low but super reliable result.

So don't narrow down your thinking. Use all the opportunities you have!

[Goblin-King]

A+ thread!

I agree with the sentiment that the original HQ dice are all that is needed to create all the variety you could want.
Using only original components also makes it more attractive for other people to adopt your ideas.

In the end though, it all boils down to how good a chance you want to roll certain results.
To meet this end you could also throw in static +1/-1 modifiers.

Heartpierce Dagger: Roll 2 dice in an attack. Add an additional skull to the result.
Cursed Blade: Roll 5 dice in an attack. Subtract 1 skull from the result.
Armor of Anticipation: Allows you to roll 2 dice in defense. Add an additional Shield to the result.

Or just plain statics without rolls!

Blade of Reliability: This weapon automatically rolls 2 skulls in an attack.
Spirit Armor: This armor automatically rolls 2 white shields in defense.