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The Wizard Clearing House of House Rules

Discuss new Rules for HeroQuest.

Re: The Wizard Clearing House of House Rules

Postby Gold Bearer » Saturday November 22nd, 2014 12:23pm

sajungzak wrote:
Gold Bearer wrote:That's only in the US rules and it's very stupid. You shouldn't be able to do anything after you die, because you're dead. That rule, allowing anyone to use scrolls and being able to disarm any trap in sight are the three silliest rules in the game.


Ah, but the actual point of death is undefined in the real world. In movies, when a main character dies, there is often enough time for a prolonged death scene. 0bp does not mean instant death, it means that death is imminent. If it is the dying heroes turn they could still have an action left for a healing spell before the end of their turn.(ie if they fell victim to a trap. If they got a bad treasure card, it is their own fault.) You must remember that a turn based game is the method used to play out what would be happening simultaneously. If it is Zargon's turn, the heroes next action can be used out of order to avoid removing the figure from the board prematurely. Essentialy, a hero is dead if he starts his turn with 0bp.
* edit* As kk pointed out, makes more sense that he is dead if he has 0bp at the beginning of Zargon's turn.
If I was going to use that rule I'd do it only for 0BP, not a minus amount. I still don't like it though. I think as Road Warrior said it's because that's not the way I'd ever seen it until I came here. There's quite a few rules that favour the heroes in the US version that aren't in the Euro rules because of the higher BP monsters in the US.

sajungzak wrote:Scrolls should be used to balance the tougher quests. If the heroes find the quests a breeze with their equipment upgrades, you can edit the quest to leave some, or all, of them out.
I just don't think the barbarian and dwarf should be able to use them, I can't see it.

sajungzak wrote:You have to be on the same tile as the trap in order to disarm it. In fact, you have to clearly state, "I am moving onto this trap with the intention to disarm it."
Again that's in the US rules. In the Euro rules you can disarm any trap in sight. Wtf were they thinking? This is easily the worst one, I'm not surprised they changed it.
:goblin: 1BP, :orc: 2BP, :fimir: 3BP, :skeleton: 1BP, :zombie: 2BP, :mummy: 3BP, :chaoswarrior: 4BP, :gargoyle: 5BP. US :chaoswarrior: 3BP, US :gargoyle: 4BP.

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Re: The Wizard Clearing House of House Rules

Postby sajungzak » Saturday November 22nd, 2014 12:47pm

I haven't read the EU rule book. Since it was in the same paragraph, I thought you were referring all your points to the US version, lol! That is weird. Another reason to play with US rules, eh?

Do the scrolls say on the card that they can be used by anyone? I don't remember. If not, it would be an easy house rule, "Magic can only be used by the elf or wizard."
Like my only house rule (I think there's only one so far) is that another hero can use a spell/potion to save a dying hero if their turn is after that of the dumb hero. (that was a typo, but I'm leaving it)
I don't use negative numbers in HeroQuest. 0 is the minimum. Yes, this means that it's better to save that potion until your at 0 because this monster might take more than you got. I do not tell them this. I do tell them to use their potions/spells wisely.
Last edited by sajungzak on Saturday November 22nd, 2014 1:23pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: The Wizard Clearing House of House Rules

Postby GimmeYerGold » Saturday November 22nd, 2014 1:01pm

The Road Warrior wrote:
I think the EU wizard is a far better balanced member of the group because he can take on the general dungeon fodder, saving his spells for the stronger monsters (or leaving them to his stronger companions). The artefacts allow him to improve on his 2 combat dice attack but the group must decide between them who has which artefact so the wizard cannot guarantee having Borin's armour and the Spirit Blade. in my humble opinion Orc's Bane is more use to the Wizard than any other Hero. The NA game was just plain cruel to the Wizard


I'm thinking of removing the Wizard-exception rule from my NA artifact cards, AND leaving the Wizard-exclusive Staff and Cloak artifacts in the mix. The Wizard's Cloak will have 2 defend dice instead of 1 (to set it apart from the cloak of protection sold in the armory).

I've added the sling to the equipment list to give the Wizard a weapon to purchase outside of the usual dagger & staff.

I agree with Road Warrior, Orc's Bane would make a rad weapon for the Wizard--my "problem player" wizard just found one, and I'm thinking of dropping in this new house rule for the next quest so he can do some slayin! Either way, it's great to give the Wizard the CHOICE to use those artifact weapon and armor, instead of a flat ban. He could always sell the artifact to another player...

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Re: The Wizard Clearing House of House Rules

Postby cynthialee » Saturday November 22nd, 2014 1:42pm

If I allowed the Wizard to use Orks Bane {And it is sorely tempting} I would print off a new card with the text added "This Ancient Elvin Blade is so light and well balanced even the Wizard may use effectively."

---------------------------

Back to starting heroes:
The first 5 games are the hardest in my estimation. No equipment to speak of, just base abilities, smarts and the prayer the dice gods don't hate you too much sustain the hero.
In this environment is where the flaws of the mage are not so bad but they are present and starting with an uneven base will bite you in the butt come endgame.

That one fix that fixes it is my goal....What is that one thing that fixes the problem...? Could it be as easy as adding 1 Body point? The apt illustration above of the mage being jumped by a skeleton during a search is spot on.
But that would have the Wizard with an extra point some may complain...
As a GM my counter is 'that is just part of the thing about being the Wizard. Deal with it.'
Just one body point might seem a small thing but it isn't really. 1 Hit Point is the difference between alive and dead in many situations. I can not count how many times a dungeon came down to the bad guy and a single hero down to their last hit points and locked in mortal combat. {like the dice gods like to see this scenario} A single point can and has in many situations been the fulcrum on which the entire storyline rides on in the end...

Weapons allowable to class ... always hated those rules. These rules often hobble the Mage. I figure the reason the mage doesn't use a battle axe or other large weapons is that it gets in the way of using a staff, and he doesn't have the strength to optimize the weapon. It isn't because the mage literally can not pick it up and swing it, just it isn't practical for him.

Still not at my solution.
So it is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you can win a hundred battles without a single loss.
If you only know yourself, but not your opponent, you may win or may lose.
If you know neither yourself nor your enemy, you will always endanger yourself.
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Re: The Wizard Clearing House of House Rules

Postby sajungzak » Saturday November 22nd, 2014 2:30pm

cynthialee wrote:
Back to starting heroes:
The first 5 games are the hardest in my estimation. No equipment to speak of, just base abilities, smarts and the prayer the dice gods don't hate you too much sustain the hero.
In this environment is where the flaws of the mage are not so bad but they are present and starting with an uneven base will bite you in the butt come endgame.


Someone in Another Thread wrote:i wrote the stuff in red
Karlens Circlet and Gems

We could make an Amethyst of Health and another could be a Peridot of Intelligence, maybe.
Remember, the wearer can choose 4 of the 6 gems to use in the circlet. I suppose he can change it between quests? Or use an action?
As for when to find this artifact,
The circlet could be found in quest 7, "The Lost Wizard." Nice teaser,or, if you tease with Amethyst of Health and Peridot of Intelligence in quests 5 and 6, they can now be in effect.
The Ruby of Fire best goes in quest 8, "The Fire Mage." Gives extra offensive spells
The Amber of Earth could be a special treasure in quest 9, "Race Against Time,"Gives an extra healing spell and an extra defensive buff spell
The Pearl of Air could go in quest 10, "Castle of Mystery,"Gives an extra Genie
The Sapphire of Water might work for quest 11 "Bastion of Chaos" Even though it doesn't have to do with water, maybe the marauding orcs and goblins stole the Sapphire.Gives another extra healing spell.
You pick up the Wizard's Staff in quest 12
and the Spirit Blade in quest 13
and you fight the Witch Lord in quest 14.
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Re: The Wizard Clearing House of House Rules

Postby sajungzak » Saturday November 22nd, 2014 3:03pm

This way they have to choose between: two extra healing spells (for a total of 4) plus either extra fire spells or an extra Genie; or fire and Genie and only one extra health. At endgame. Without any extra armor not in NA. Without any changes to any other characters. Is he on par with the others? Or does this create a powerhouse? Are the extra spells enough to keep him in the action? Without much defenses, he would be relying on health spells and potions to keep bouncing back from 0 bp.
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Re: The Wizard Clearing House of House Rules

Postby cynthialee » Saturday November 22nd, 2014 3:16pm

sajungzak wrote:This way they have to choose between: two extra healing spells (for a total of 4) plus either extra fire spells or an extra Genie; or fire and Genie and only one extra health. At endgame. Without any extra armor not in NA. Without any changes to any other characters. Is he on par with the others? Or does this create a powerhouse? Are the extra spells enough to keep him in the action? Without much defenses, he would be relying on health spells and potions to keep bouncing back from 0 bp.


It has allot of potential I think. Added to the other stuff the Wizard is going to acquire and compared to the rest of the heroes at that point the circlet works well.
My big hang up is the heals.
Perhaps the circlet can only store a single spell from any particular school...?
So it is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you can win a hundred battles without a single loss.
If you only know yourself, but not your opponent, you may win or may lose.
If you know neither yourself nor your enemy, you will always endanger yourself.
~Sun Tsu The art of War~


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Re: The Wizard Clearing House of House Rules

Postby sajungzak » Saturday November 22nd, 2014 3:22pm

I was worried about the heals too. My thought is that it would make him more confident, no longer lingering in the back, and therefore more vulnerable. It would be important to restrict armor in this case for sure, so he will take more damage. Reviving himself every few battles he participates in.

* edit * Apon further reflection, perhaps it would be prudent to remove a potion (or two) from the treasure deck when introducing the Circlet.
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Re: The Wizard Clearing House of House Rules

Postby cynthialee » Saturday November 22nd, 2014 3:53pm

sajungzak wrote:I was worried about the heals too. My thought is that it would make him more confident, no longer lingering in the back, and therefore more vulnerable. It would be important to restrict armor in this case for sure, so he will take more damage. Reviving himself every few battles he participates in.

* edit * Apon further reflection, perhaps it would be prudent to remove a potion (or two) from the treasure deck when introducing the Circlet.

This is so true. I can not tell you the amount of times I have seen a mage in High Fantasy get a little to big for his britches and start acting like he is Rambo....Always bites him in the butt in the end.
So it is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you can win a hundred battles without a single loss.
If you only know yourself, but not your opponent, you may win or may lose.
If you know neither yourself nor your enemy, you will always endanger yourself.
~Sun Tsu The art of War~


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Re: The Wizard Clearing House of House Rules

Postby Anderas » Saturday November 22nd, 2014 3:57pm

Sajungzak,
the extra healing spells are a problem. They don't raise the Wizards BP, instead they raise the generally available BP of the entire group. If he just stays in the background and heals the Barbarian 4 times, then the Barbarian could stay in front of the most dangerous monsters without even have the remote feel of danger. In short term, this is a "cool tactic" but in the long run, it removes the fun from the game.

If you want to give the Wizard wizard-exclusive bonus BP, there should be a spell to heal himself. No target choosing.

Apart from that, i would even say that your wizard is under-powered. It's just the mechanics of healing spells that isn't fitting.

In the end, it is the non-participation that generates frustration. The wait state before the final monster arrives. The "i save myself for the final fight" boringness during parts of the game.

KK addresses this with unlimited fire balls, the EU edition addresses this with weaponry - if you give the wizard player the feeling of active participation, plus a chance to reach the endgame, and a small chance to even survive it, it's perfect. Maybe there should be a find-and-disarm-traps spell, an unlock-door spell (if Morcar builds dungeons with locked doors... ;) ); such things. Practical to use, not too strong if it is one-use.


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