A Way to Fix the Wizard - Cantrips

Discuss new Rules for HeroQuest.

Re: A Way to Fix the Wizard - Cantrips

Postby cynthialee » Tuesday November 18th, 2014 10:33pm

whitebeard wrote:
Jafazo wrote:The spell scroll idea I like, and in fact, it could work, but there are two problems with it. 1. It isn't a self sufficient idea. If the GM gets sloppy you could end up with an overpowered Wizard. 2. ANYONE can use spell scrolls, not only the Wizard. The elf might want to keep his scrolls or the Barbarian might decide he'll hang on to Scrolls of Courage and Healing Scrolls. Getting them to the Wizard just won't work without too much hassle.


Interesting interpretation. I always figured the Barbarian could not read at all. And Dwarves, well they mostly mistrust magic (the spell is likely to back fire on him so he won't even try to use a magic scroll). In fact the dwarf probably cannot read the language of magic anyways, so no go there. The Elf should only be able to read scrolls in the spell group he has chosen. Or you can argue that the elf is a magical being and his limited spell casting ability is due to his innate ability. Since he has received very little formal training in magic, cannot read the scrolls either.

Presto! Only the wizard can use magic scrolls. :2cents:


You could charge heroes that are not the Wizard a Mind point to use a Scroll spell. This way anyone can still use Scroll Magic but most would prefer to leave it to the Wizard.
So it is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you can win a hundred battles without a single loss.
If you only know yourself, but not your opponent, you may win or may lose.
If you know neither yourself nor your enemy, you will always endanger yourself.
~Sun Tsu The art of War~


Rewards:
Created a Hot Topic.
cynthialee

Crossbowman
Crossbowman
 
Posts: 1685
Images: 4
Joined: Tuesday September 27th, 2011 10:56am
Location: the forests of Washington State
Forum Language: English (United States)
Evil Sorcerer: Zargon
Hero:
Usergroups:
Adventurers' Guild Group Member Champion Group Member

Advertisement

Re: A Way to Fix the Wizard - Cantrips

Postby GimmeYerGold » Wednesday November 19th, 2014 12:20am

A lot of good suggestions here, definitely some worth considering to use in practice! |_P

However, I'm curious, has anyone here played the Wizard as-is, or with very little modification, and enjoyed it to the extent that one would enjoy playing as any of the other Heroes? (Anecdotes from a GM describing the same are welcome, too.)


Rewards:
Created a Hot Topic. Encountered a menacing Chaos Warlock!
User avatar
GimmeYerGold

Giant Wolf
Giant Wolf
 
Posts: 713
Images: 1
Joined: Saturday September 7th, 2013 7:26pm
Location: Houston, TX
Forum Language: English (United States)
Evil Sorcerer: Zargon
Hero:
Usergroups:
Artists Group Member Champion Group Member

Re: A Way to Fix the Wizard - Cantrips

Postby Count Mohawk » Wednesday November 19th, 2014 12:49am

GimmeYerGold wrote:A lot of good suggestions here, definitely some worth considering to use in practice! |_P

However, I'm curious, has anyone here played the Wizard as-is, or with very little modification, and enjoyed it to the extent that one would enjoy playing as any of the other Heroes? (Anecdotes from a GM describing the same are welcome, too.)

When I was playing through the second half of Slev's HQR a few years ago, I had to use the Wizard at the peak of his base-game performance for two whole Quest Packs before getting to the Wizard Quest Pack - that is, Wizard's Staff, Wizard's Cloak, Bracers and a Sling (1 combat die at range). The Wizard was surprisingly competent, even against the Giant Wolves and similar strong monsters we faced. I used him as sort of a crack sniper-slash-medic - he would throw his Ball of Flame, etc., at well-positioned mid-strength monsters, or at heavily injured Chaos Warrior-level ones, while supporting from the odd angles afforded by the Diagonal nature of the staff. And of course Heal Body went into the Spell Ring because we were always cash-poor for Potions. Generally if you use about one Spell per room, more or less, you will still have enough magic for the boss at the end, or if someone finds a Wandering Monster on the way out.

Of course, the Wizard's faults are obvious - namely, his physical fragility (2 attack / 4 defend is his absolute cap) and the hard limit on his magical aptitude imposed by a finite supply of Spell magic. Once he runs out of Spells, usually the Wizard has to retreat to the back of the room and limit his activities to taking potshots with the Sling. And effectively having to quit the Quest early is not fun for anyone, no matter how much they can pass off his other faults.


Rewards:
Grin's Stone Map Created a Hot Topic. Shattered a Skeleton! Destroyed a Zombie! Crushed a powerful Chaos Warrior! Smashed a massive Gargoyle!
User avatar
Marquis of Math
Count Mohawk

Elven Warrior
Elven Warrior
 
Posts: 656
Joined: Thursday July 11th, 2013 5:18pm
Location: New England, USA
Forum Language: English (United States)
Evil Sorcerer: Zargon
Hero:
Usergroups:
Champion Group Member

Re: A Way to Fix the Wizard - Cantrips

Postby cynthialee » Wednesday November 19th, 2014 1:40am

The Elf and the Barbarian are the most favored, no one minds playing the Dwarf. The Wizard seems fun at first but after some time the limitations start to become evident as the other heroes are strapping out with armor and crossbows. Other than Genie which is a one shot deal the crossbow is the best ranged one can have. Even if the artifacts and potions are in play to give the mage an extra use or two of Genie the long term tactical advantages of the crossbow is obvious. 3 of the heroes have crossbows and are rolling 3 dice at range every melee turn. Put the mage as the last player to take a turn and he is only needed as a mop up and healer really. The argument to give him Earth and Water spells and play him like a cleric is pretty strong after awhile.

This Hero needs some form of serious help. Yet it is very easy to make this Hero overpowered with improperly designed house rules. This is one of the multitude of reasons I just scrap the EWP concept and play it as an RPG lite with Zargon being the GM.

Now if you add some house rules involving Mind rolls or Mind reliant limitations then the Wizard starts to shine.
For instance:
I only allow a hero to search as many squares for traps as the heroes current Mind Points. That right there makes the Wizard really useful to the party. Poor Barbarian is really hamstrung with this rule, yet it does nothing to harm his ability to pwn in battle. (Dwarf I give the ability to search for traps with his current Mind score +4.) Sometimes I have complicated doors that require a Mind roll to open. Looking for a black skull typically. Discovering the magic properties of an item and determining if it is cursed or beneficial is a chore for the mage. Roll me a Mind check, looking for a black skull. Unidentified items must be identified by Mentor between Dungeons. (Stinks to discover that the unknown weapon discovered in the first room was not cursed after all and you could have used its magic in the dungeon. But who would chance it if the item is not properly identified? Not my players....They know an item must be properly identified before use. That last necklace of strangulation taught them that nasty lesson. Having a Wizard who can identify magic stuff in play is a boon. (Identification of an item may only attempted once per item in the dungeon. The mage must forego movement and action for one turn as he meditates with the item in hand, entering the fae realm and discussing the mater with the fairies. Player roles Mind points and if a black skull is rolled the item is identified. If no skulls are rolled the mage fails to identify the item.) These Mind rolls encourage the players to keep the Mage alive.

One more fix for the Wizard and I will shut up for now:
The mage enters play with 3 random potions from a deck of potions. Print off all the extra potions one can find here on the Inn and shuffle them up and give the player 3 pulls. Of course only the potions the Wizard can benefit from should be put into said deck. My reasoning on this alternate idea is that the dude is a Mage, he can make potions in his spare time between adventures.
So it is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you can win a hundred battles without a single loss.
If you only know yourself, but not your opponent, you may win or may lose.
If you know neither yourself nor your enemy, you will always endanger yourself.
~Sun Tsu The art of War~


Rewards:
Created a Hot Topic.
cynthialee

Crossbowman
Crossbowman
 
Posts: 1685
Images: 4
Joined: Tuesday September 27th, 2011 10:56am
Location: the forests of Washington State
Forum Language: English (United States)
Evil Sorcerer: Zargon
Hero:
Usergroups:
Adventurers' Guild Group Member Champion Group Member

Re: A Way to Fix the Wizard - Cantrips

Postby cornixt » Wednesday November 19th, 2014 11:23am

One quest filled with ghosts that inflict Mind damage instead of Body damage and are difficult to harm with regular weapons, and the party will be glad to have a wizard on the team.


Rewards:
Destroyed a Zombie!
cornixt

Storm Master
Storm Master
 
Posts: 460
Joined: Tuesday November 4th, 2014 12:56pm
Forum Language: British English
Evil Sorcerer: Morcar
Hero:
Usergroups:
Champion Group Member

Re: A Way to Fix the Wizard - Cantrips

Postby slev » Wednesday November 19th, 2014 11:26am

The HQR quest "Galeries of Insanity" had all Heroes basic moves changed to D6+Mind. The Wizard had a field day on that one!


Rewards:
Created a Hot Topic. Zealot Miniatures: Twisting Catacombs Kickstarter Backer Destroyed a Zombie! Encountered a menacing Chaos Warlock!
User avatar
slev

Archmage
Archmage
 
Posts: 979
Images: 5
Joined: Tuesday August 26th, 2014 7:55am
Location: Manchester
Forum Language: British English
Evil Sorcerer: Morcar
Hero:
Usergroups:
Champion Group Member

Re: A Way to Fix the Wizard - Cantrips

Postby ruiza97 » Wednesday November 19th, 2014 6:10pm

If one is about to start a game w/Basic and has access to all the expansions, would it be helpful for the Wizard to start using all the rules w/expansions with Quest 1 (actually we would start with the Maze)? Would that op the Elf?
ruiza97

Mummy
Mummy
 
Posts: 88
Images: 2
Joined: Sunday August 3rd, 2014 12:26am
Location: DFW
Forum Language: English (United States)
Evil Sorcerer: Zargon
Hero:
Usergroups:
Champion Group Member

Re: A Way to Fix the Wizard - Cantrips

Postby cynthialee » Wednesday November 19th, 2014 6:49pm

ruiza97 wrote:If one is about to start a game w/Basic and has access to all the expansions, would it be helpful for the Wizard to start using all the rules w/expansions with Quest 1 (actually we would start with the Maze)? Would that op the Elf?

I don't think so. The Wizard doesn't do much looting so it isn't like he can afford the potions.
So it is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you can win a hundred battles without a single loss.
If you only know yourself, but not your opponent, you may win or may lose.
If you know neither yourself nor your enemy, you will always endanger yourself.
~Sun Tsu The art of War~


Rewards:
Created a Hot Topic.
cynthialee

Crossbowman
Crossbowman
 
Posts: 1685
Images: 4
Joined: Tuesday September 27th, 2011 10:56am
Location: the forests of Washington State
Forum Language: English (United States)
Evil Sorcerer: Zargon
Hero:
Usergroups:
Adventurers' Guild Group Member Champion Group Member

Re: A Way to Fix the Wizard - Cantrips

Postby GimmeYerGold » Thursday November 20th, 2014 2:51am

I've been thinking about it, and since the Wizard is on the opposite end of the spectrum from the Barbarian, he should basically be like... Gandalf, yeah?

A "how the fraggle" and also "why the fraggle??" "in the hell did you do do that for??? HOLY *lemony goodness* oh noooo oh but wait it's okay we're fine it's working out in our favor" kind of character. Not someone is is perceivable "badass," but proves themselves to be so, perhaps in unconventional and "a wizard shows up exactly when he is needed" kinda way.

Rule that as you will... I think I'm just going to add an extra spell group to the starting wizard... a dozen spells can't be wrong B-)


Rewards:
Created a Hot Topic. Encountered a menacing Chaos Warlock!
User avatar
GimmeYerGold

Giant Wolf
Giant Wolf
 
Posts: 713
Images: 1
Joined: Saturday September 7th, 2013 7:26pm
Location: Houston, TX
Forum Language: English (United States)
Evil Sorcerer: Zargon
Hero:
Usergroups:
Artists Group Member Champion Group Member

Re: A Way to Fix the Wizard - Cantrips

Postby ruiza97 » Thursday November 20th, 2014 2:58am

GimmeYerGold wrote:I think I'm just going to add an extra spell group to the starting wizard... a dozen spells can't be wrong B-)
I agree. When we start, I'm gonna say the Wizard has the option to choose what 3 groups he watnts from the elemental, protection, and darkness decks.
ruiza97

Mummy
Mummy
 
Posts: 88
Images: 2
Joined: Sunday August 3rd, 2014 12:26am
Location: DFW
Forum Language: English (United States)
Evil Sorcerer: Zargon
Hero:
Usergroups:
Champion Group Member

PreviousNext

Return to Rules

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: CommonCrawl [Bot] and 2 guests