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Houserule: Push Back

Discuss new Rules for HeroQuest.

Houserule: Push Back

Postby knightkrawler » Sunday November 25th, 2012 10:10am

The following idea for a houserule has been discussed in the German forum and has been playtested extensively.
And it was approved by veteran HQ players as suitable in its HQ-like simplicity:

Push Back
When an opponent (Hero or monster) loses one or more Body points during a melee fight, the attacker may choose to use the momentum to push his opponent back or to the side one square. However, the attacker then must take the emptied square himself. If there's a wall or other immovable object behind or next to the opponent, pushing back in that direction is not possible.
If the square(s) behind the opponent is/are occupied by another/other Hero(es) or monster(s), they are pushed in the same direction.
Alternatively, the attacker may choose to exchange squares with his opponent after taking one or more Body point from him.
Pushing back and exchanging squares are not part of the attacker's movement phase and may be done after all Movement points are spent.
If the opponent is killed, neither Push Back nor exchanging squares is possible.


Notes:

1. The idea is born from ghan's Exchanging Squares in Melee rule, and, after I presented it, developed into this by a collaborate effort at hq-cooperation, mixed with other ideas, and was playtested by Zombie and other members from the site.

2. I will take this rule into my houserules, except for the blue part, which I find a tad unrealistic. It includes situations like the Barbarian injuring a chaos warrior and thereby pushing him and 12 others back one square - you get my point. However, it makes for a funnier game, all in all, with an even more useful point to this rule, as everyone can imagine. The whole point of Push Back is breaking up the block-a-door-or-passage-with-all-you-have-tactics.

3. Because of the lack of realism in the blue part, in my houserules I substituted it with the red part (which is ghan's original rule) to keep the option to advance. In the situation described under 2, the Barbarian takes a BP from the first chaos warrior, exchanges squares with him, on the one hand advancing one square, being able to take on another opponent, on the other hand making it possible for a second Hero to attack. That way, not one, but two Heroes may attack in each round.

4. I gave some monsters a special rule:
Rock-Solid
It is not possible to push back or exchange squares with opponents using this special rule, which, from the original game, are Ogres and Gargoyles.
In addition, I made the same Rock-Solid skill available for Heroes of specific classes: The Berserker has the skill from the beginning, the Clanwarrior, Chaoswarrior (as a Hero), and the Weaponmaster may aquire it.


CONCLUSION:
THE PHALLIC PHALANX BLOCKING A DOOR IS DONE !!!

__________________________________________________________

Feel free to use the rule or any variation of it in your game.
Anyway, further playtesting is welcome, especially my version with the red part instead of the blue part. Also, a comparison of the same situation played both ways would be more than welcome.
I think, the blue way is funnier, the red way including the Rock-Solid special rule/skill is more realistic, both ways are very HQ-like in keeping simplicity.

Comments? Ideas?
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Re: Houserule: Push Back

Postby Patroclus » Sunday November 25th, 2012 4:55pm

Very interesting… but I am afraid that it will bring total chaos in battle with miniatures moving around the room (wizards will never be safe anymore)... in my opinion this could be a very nice skill for special types of enemies, with high intelligence and raw strength, barbarian-like creatures as uruk hai for example. For sure they can hit and push back the heroes to go forward for their next target...

So, I will have in mind this skill for custom monsters. |_P


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Re: Houserule: Push Back

Postby Daedalus » Sunday November 25th, 2012 6:55pm

I like how it turns a melee into...well...a melee. Door defending must go!

The end of this thread link contains a less elegant solution.

Okay, I thought about it a day and posted on Old Scratch. Here is my edited reply, for the benefit of this thread:

Daedalus wrote:I agree that door blocking needs to be dealt with. Here's another, modified way to deal with moving multiple figures:

Push Back
When a figure loses one or more Body Points during a melee fight, an attacker may choose to use the momentum of the attack to push that opponent back or to the side one square. If there's a wall or other immovable object behind or next to the opponent, pushing back in that direction is not possible.  Figures also count as immovable objects if their number, including the defending opponent, exceeds the Body Points lost from the attack.  If istead the total number of figures is less than or equal to the Body Points lost, then they may all be pushed in the same direction. Push Back isn't possible if the defending opponent is killed.

Example:
A Barbarian, flanked by the Dwarf, Elf, and Wizard guards a doorway against a group of 3 Fimiri who want to get to the Elf and Wizard.  A Fimir facing the Barbarian hits for 1 BP of damage.  As the Dwarf and Barbarian together (2) is greater than 1 BP, the Barbarian can't be moved (the Dwarf kindly pushes him back into the doorway).  Zargon moves the Fimir to the side, allowing a second Fimir to attack. It pastes the Barbarian for 2 BP of damage.  That's equal to or greater than 2 figures, so the Fimir pushes back the Barbarian and the Dwarf to the left.  A third Fimir enthusiastically jumps forward next to the Elf to attack.  
             
Notes:
A lucky attack may push back an opponent and up to 3 figures with a Battle Axe, possibly more if a Potion of Strength is used.  Awesome power and luck can change the direction of a battle in truly heroic ways with this modification.

I'm in favor of requiring normal movement to advance into an emptied square.  That means it may take more than one turn to advance into a room or corroidor as a Hero moves back into the vacated square to attack on his turn.  I don't see this as a problem, as extra monsters can advance to the vacated square on Morcar's/Zargon's turn before this happens.
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Re: Houserule: Push Back

Postby Daedalus » Tuesday August 20th, 2013 1:47am

Another variation of this house rule that more specifically addresses a Hero Quest restriction is to allow moving through an enemy figure rather than pushing it:

    Passing Through Enemy Figures
    A Hero or monster whose Body Points
    have been reduced by 2 or more by an
    enemy's attack doesn't block that
    enemy's movement for the turn. For
    each Body Point reduced, a further
    adjacent figure may also be passed,
    but movement must end on an empty
    square. Large monsters require an
    extra Body Point to pass through.
I increased the damage minimum to 2 Body Points to restrict the rule a bit, hopefully making the occurrence more meaningful. Battle lines can be held, but they are not proof against telling attacks. Using my example of combat above, the second Fimir would instead be allowed to move through the Barbarian and the Dwarf.

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Re: Houserule: Push Back

Postby knightkrawler » Tuesday August 20th, 2013 2:26am

That's one neat little extra optional rule, right there.
Writing my rule book I include these optionals, text background shaded grey, trying to avoid contradictions and ambiguities and allowing the group to decide which ones to use, and which ones to avoid.
Also, the Evil Wizard player (me, basically) can decide during the questmaking process if there's an optional rule he wants to require using playing that particular quest. There's a shitload of ideas and tactical subtleties in these optionals.
I like that one very much, Daedalus. Simple, and with a logical background.
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Re: Houserule: Push Back

Postby IvenBach » Thursday August 22nd, 2013 12:58am

This... Is... Golden...! I have been trying to figure out how to keep the barbarian from Phallic Blocking the entire doorway and have just found it. I remember doing this as a kid when playing and having no challenge after the 1st quest. Now that I'm gearing up to get a group together I am assuredly going to include this. No more stuffing that thick barbarian into a tiny hole of a doorway and leaving him there.


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Re: Houserule: Push Back

Postby Schmidt » Thursday August 22nd, 2013 10:22am

I think I read on this forum that in the US rules a monster could pass through a hero = no door blocking.


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Re: Houserule: Push Back

Postby Goblin-King » Thursday August 22nd, 2013 11:12am

Schmidt wrote:I think I read on this forum that in the US rules a monster could pass through a hero = no door blocking.

Someone actually bothered to look it up and found that not even American monsters can move through heroes.


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Re: Houserule: Push Back

Postby torilen » Thursday August 22nd, 2013 11:23am

This is a great optional rule. I like it much better with the higher loss of body points, instead of just
1 or more lost.
I'm not sure if I misread or not - but I don't think I personally would allow it to push more than one target - only the
target being attacked and losing the body points could be pushed in my ruling.
Also, I WOULD allow if the target losing the body points dies. That's just kind of icing on the cake, you kill the goblin,
and you hit it so hard you just fling it a space backward, step forward and scream at it lying on the ground bleeding.

:barbarian: (TAKE IT! puny piece of meat)

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Re: Houserule: Push Back

Postby IvenBach » Sunday August 25th, 2013 3:27am

In addition to pushing them back for door blocking have you tried double doors? I don't want to hijack this thread but I already have an explanation http://www.yeoldeinn.com/hqforum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1882 of door blocking that went on in my 1st game. I like the push back rule but I've run into the 3-man-jump-him-when-he-comes-out tactic and know it's going to be used more. Do how do you rule if people are directly behind them? are they pushed back as well?


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