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[Quest Pack] [14 Quests] - Rise of the Chaos God

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Re: Japanese base game Quest Pack localization

Postby bastianbux » Monday March 25th, 2013 2:43pm

Okay guys, here's the updated version of the Artifact cards with those changes:

[Removed; updated below]
Last edited by bastianbux on Monday March 25th, 2013 7:17pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Japanese base game Quest Pack localization

Postby Daedalus » Monday March 25th, 2013 6:25pm

Can the Silver Sword be used with a Shield? There isn't a prohibition, but I think one should be considered for balance. Barbarians aren't big on armor anyway, 'cause their defense is in their offense.
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Re: Japanese base game Quest Pack localization

Postby bastianbux » Monday March 25th, 2013 7:17pm

That's a very good point. Updated. :D

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Re: Japanese base game Quest Pack localization

Postby Daedalus » Monday April 1st, 2013 11:12pm

bastianbux wrote:
drathe wrote:I would keep them as the original price. Then DMs could start a whole new set of heroes from the start without any troubles. If they want to add the quests in later, they can adjust the rewards themselves to suit their current heroes and what they have available to them for purchase.


Well, I mean... a GM wouldn't start brand new Heroes out on Return of the Witch King... they'd likely first play the base game. And while this was the Japanese base game, I'm adapting it specifically to take place after our base game at any point. The rewards should probably be similar to RotWK or KK rewards.

I'd also like to suggest tooling this back to starting Hero Quest rewards. My take is a whole new group of Heroes would be needed for these Quests, as the locale is entirely different from the vanilla area where Mentor starts out Heroes against Morcar/Zargon. It doesn't make a lot of thematic sense to me that Heroes who began with the Emperor would somehow end up in a Far Eastern locale with a Lord of Nifon Island. However, if you still want to retain this premise, perhaps you could include some introductory Shogun (the TV series book adaptation) fluff to explain how the foreigners came to be in this strange land.

Since the gold coin rewards found in the Parchment Text sections effectively sets the Quest level, another idea could be to include alternate, lowered rewards in a Quests description section. This could be as simple as recommending halving the Quest rewards of the Parchment Text sections of the Quests. These pre-figured values could then be easily be subtituted by the evil wizard player who wishes to play with starting Heroes.

bastianbux wrote:
drathe wrote:
bastianbux wrote:About the cover: I agree it should have a new cover with a Far East flair. I'll see if I can cobble together something that represents that. I'm also trying to think of a title for quest pack. I'm thinking something like "Rise of the Chaos God" or "The Chaos God Awakens" or something since that seems to be the main plot.


Of those two choices, I prefer "The Chaos God Awakens".



I'm also extremely open to any suggestions. Those are just the two that first came to me. I feel like it should convey the basic plot about the resurrection of the Chaos God in a typical HeroQuest-y way (Return of the Witch King = "Action" of the "Primary Noun").


I have an alternate title suggestion: Riddle of the Chaos God. The riddle of his destruction is a theme throughout many of the Quests, and it sounds inviting to me without giving away the plot directly. It also avoids the use of "The", which makes a sentence.

About that riddle found in the Castle Pain. I can't find mention of its discovery in Quest 4, as the image doesn't show any longer in this thread. Can you please resubmit that Quest?

I'd like to copy all of the Quests and move them to the beginning of this thread so that they can all be referenced easily as a continuous group. Is that okay with you?

Lastly, a description section for the Quests would be helpful. Check this thread drathe made about writing one. If you're too busy, I could provide a minimal one that meets the forum suggestions. Of course, you could write a fuller one if you felt it would be better.
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Re: [Preview] [Quest Pack] [14 Quests] - Japanese localizati

Postby AerynB » Monday April 15th, 2013 9:40pm

I noticed that too while I was copying the quests. Quest 4 seems to be missing. :( Could you reattach it?


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Re: Japanese base game Quest Pack localization

Postby Daedalus » Tuesday April 16th, 2013 2:33pm

Sjeng wrote:this is a damn good story! I'd hate to be the barbarian in this quest though.


torilen wrote:...I do question the design and the play-ability of a quest such as this. Even if the barbarian had gone through
the first three official published quests, and had bought armor and weapons and gotten treasure, I have
serious doubts that he would survive his portion of this game. Two mummies right from the start, and
then three orcs and a fimir together, and top it off with a gargoyle...and that is assuming he has at least
one or two healing potions with him....

I estimated the damage done to the Barbarian using the numbers from thequester's Monster Slaying Cost table and applying some math as described by me in a later post of that thread. I'm assuming the Barbarian can purchase any combination of equipment since he should probably have almost 2000 gold coins after the first 6 Quests of this series (it's a monte haul).

The biggest variable is how the Gargoyle is played. It's certainly possible to open the door, enter the room, then move 7 or more squares to teleport back into the central chamber--all without fighting the Gargoyle. Morcar/Zargon should have the Gargoyle follow in that case, but it's possible other Heroes could already be waiting there, finished with their trials or even waiting to begin with full Body Points. At that point the Gargoyle would be an easier match, being outnumbered. Even if the Barbarian was first in the central chamber, there's nothing stopping him from running away by exiting the room again. From there he could just stall by running through his trial rooms again and returning to the central chamber where his allies could be waiting. That would satisfy the Quest--all 4 Heroes have teleported back in this case--and he wouldn't even have to fight the Gargoyle! Therefore I'd recommend that all 4 Heroes must pass out of the central chamber and begin their trials before any Hero could teleport back to the room. I'd also recommend that the central chamber could only be exited once by any particular Hero, or else a return teleport should be prevented until all of the monsters of the last room are defeated.

My post is getting too long and dry for what we are talking about, so I'll soon link to an explanation of the likely damage caused to the Barbarian in the Monster Slaying Cost thread (for those who are interested in the nuts and bolts of combat). [It's found a few posts down. -edit]
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Re: [Preview] [Quest Pack] [14 Quests] - Japanese localizati

Postby bastianbux » Tuesday April 16th, 2013 4:47pm

Ah, whoops. Looks like I was over zealous with my deleting older versions of the maps. Quest 4 is back up.

I'm still awaiting the translation of the rest of the quests so I can localize them. Hopefully someone eventually gets around to it soon.
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Re: Japanese base game Quest Pack localization

Postby AerynB » Friday April 19th, 2013 12:45pm

Daedalus wrote:
Sjeng wrote:this is a damn good story! I'd hate to be the barbarian in this quest though.


torilen wrote:...I do question the design and the play-ability of a quest such as this. Even if the barbarian had gone through
the first three official published quests, and had bought armor and weapons and gotten treasure, I have
serious doubts that he would survive his portion of this game. Two mummies right from the start, and
then three orcs and a fimir together, and top it off with a gargoyle...and that is assuming he has at least
one or two healing potions with him....

I estimated the damage done to the Barbarian using the numbers from thequester's Monster Slaying Cost table and applying some math as described by me in a later post of that thread. I'm assuming the Barbarian can purchase any combination of equipment since he should probably have almost 2000 gold coins after the first 6 Quests of this series (it's a monte haul).

The biggest variable is how the Gargoyle is played. It's certainly possible to open the door, enter the room, then move 7 or more squares to teleport back into the central chamber--all without fighting the Gargoyle. Morcar/Zargon should have the Gargoyle follow in that case, but it's possible other Heroes could already be waiting there, finished with their trials or even waiting to begin with full Body Points. At that point the Gargoyle would be an easier match, being outnumbered. Even if the Barbarian was first in the central chamber, there's nothing stopping him from running away by exiting the room again. From there he could just stall by running through his trial rooms again and returning to the central chamber where his allies could be waiting. That would satisfy the Quest--all 4 Heroes have teleported back in this case--and he wouldn't even have to fight the Gargoyle! Therefore I'd recommend that all 4 Heroes must pass out of the central chamber and begin their trials before any Hero could teleport back to the room. I'd also recommend that the central chamber could only be exited once by any particular Hero, or else a return teleport should be prevented until all of the monsters of the last room are defeated.

My post is getting too long and dry for what we are talking about, so I'll soon link to an explanation of the likely damage caused to the Barbarian in the Monster Slaying Cost thread (for those who are interested in the nuts and bolts of combat). Then I'll provide a summation as an edit here.


Actually, the Barbarian could probably handle the Gargoyle. Not only have the Quests in the Japanese game changed, but so have the rules, and some Equipment and Treasure Cards. See here: http://oldscratch.smackwell.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?num=1311159814/60#60. For instance, after Quest 4, the Heroes have the chance to level up for 500 gold each. Once chance per Hero at the end of each Quest (I think). Barbarians and Dwarves roll 4 dice, Elves and Wizards roll 3. If the Hero gets at least 2 White Shields on his roll, he successfully levels up and gains 1 maximum Body Point. The chance of rolling at least 2 White Shields on 4 dice is about 40.74%. The chance of rolling at least 2 White Shields on 3 dice is about 25.93%. Daedalus said that the Heroes can get about 2000 gold coins through the first 6 quests. I don't know if that's using using knightkrawler's adjustments or the original Japanese quest treasures. Here's what I found skimming the translation posts: http://oldscratch.smackwell.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?num=1311159814/42#42.

Quest 1 = 50 gold apiece = 200 gold total = 200 gold running total
Quest 2 = 250 gold in treasure and 100 gold apiece?? = 650 gold total = 850 gold running total
Quest 3 = 100 gold in treasure, 100 to the finder, and 150 gold apiece = 800 gold total = 1650 gold running total
Quest 4 = 400 gold and a shield in treasure = 400 gold total = 2050 gold running total.
Quest 5 (this one almost sounds optional) = Dragon Eye treasure, allows each hero to level up without cost (don't know if it's automatically level up, or you can get a free roll to level up without having to pay any gold). It can also be sold for 200 gold after it is used = 200 gold total = 2250 gold running total
Quest 6 = 700 gold in treasure = 700 gold total = 2950 gold running total

I guess there's plenty of gold there to buy equipment and attempt to level up. Then again, there could be much more gold than that. Monsters give out gold as a reward when you defeat them too. I don't know all the rules yet, or how to determine who gets the gold if they all gang up on the monster, but I do know it has "Reward" on the monster cards after their other stats. Also, Chaos Warriors and Gargoyles have 2BP instead of 3 in the NA versions and instead of 1 in the EU versions.

Also, there is no Battle Axe in the Equipment cards but the Broadsword attacks with 4 dice and costs 500 gold. It's also a Barbarian-only weapon. Platemail is also Barbarian only, 4 defend dice, and apparently does not have a movement penalty (I need to look into that though). Not only that, but you can BUY 2BP-Healing Potions, though you may have to sacrifice your movement phase to drink it (not sure on that either). In the treasure deck, there seems to be a 4BP-Healing Potion card and a 3BP-Healing Potion card too.

So as you can see, the Japanese version of this Quest is designed just fine. The Barbarian can probably survive his trial. The other Heroes can probably survive their trials too. I'll have to look closer at the other Japanese rules and see how things differ for Dwarves, Elves, and Wizards.


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Re: [Preview] [Quest Pack] [14 Quests] - Japanese localizati

Postby Daedalus » Friday April 19th, 2013 3:55pm

Good call AerynB on all the Japanese variant treasures I missed, as well as the rules for monster gold, leveling, and healing potions. Apart from all that, the localization here, which is played using the NA rules if I understand correctly, still presents a fair challenge. The amount of gold is still sufficient to buy a formidable set of equipment for the Barbarian. Here are the results of my Monster Slaying Cost calculations found in more detail currently towards the bottom of this thread, which show how much punishment this Quest meets out to the Barbarian:

Daedalus wrote:...Second, the variables, which are the tactical options found in the fight with the Fimir and three Orcs:

* fighting from the doorway and waiting for the monsters to attack--1 adjacent monster.
* immediately attacking the Orc from the corner and waiting for the monsters to attack--2 adjacent monsters.
* immediately attacking a Fimir or Orc with the Barbarian's back to the wall--3 adjacent monsters.
* immediately attacking a Fimir or Orc and being surrounded--4 adjacent monsters....

...Finally, the MSC totals are added together to find how much damage the Barbarian is likely to suffer at the hands of Quest 7. Add either 0.2 or 0.1 to an appropriate total to find the MSC for all monsters with the Skeleton included.

            4 AD, 4 DD (battle axe, chain mail, helmet)                       4 AD, 5 DD (battle axe, plate mail, helmet)
               From a doorway, waiting: 7.4 (+.2)                                   From a doorway, waiting: 6.2 (+.1)
               From a corner, waiting: 8.0*/8.3 (+.2)                             From a corner, waiting: 6.8*/7.1 (+.1)
               From a wall, agressive: 8.6*/9.2 (+.2)                              From a wall, agressive: 7.4*/8.0 (+.1)
               Surrounded, agressive: 8.9*/9.8 (+.2)                              Surrounded, agressive: 7.7*/8.6 (+.1)

      3 AD, 5 DD (longsword, chain mail, helmet, shield)             3 AD, 6 DD (longsword, plate mail, helmet, shield)
             From a doorway, waiting: 7.6 (+.2)                                     From a doorway, waiting: 7.1 (+.1)
             From a corner, waiting: 8.8*/9.1 (+.2)                               From a corner, waiting: 7.7*/8.0 (+.1)
             From a wall, agressive: 9.6*/10.4 (+.2)                              From a wall, agressive: 8.3*/8.9 (+.1)
             Surrounded, agressive: 10.0*/11.2 (+.2)                            Surrounded, agressive: 8.6*/9.5 (+.1)
                                                                      *Fimir is attacked last

Considering the Heroes were already well equipped, its likely the Barbarian would have at least one healing potion in reserve entering this Quest. Therefore, I feel this Quest is actually fair for the Barbarian player.

I imagine the Quest is fair for the other Heroes as well, as they're opposition has drawn less criticism. If the Quest treasure from the previous 6 Quests were cut in half (or more) so that the most effective equipment wasn't yet availabe, then things would turn out a bit differently. Anyone who chooses that route would be well advised to reduce the monsters here.
 
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Re: [Preview] [Quest Pack] [14 Quests] - Japanese localizati

Postby AerynB » Friday April 19th, 2013 4:03pm

I guess I was replying to the person who said the quest had design flaws. I just wanted to show that it seemed fair when looking at all the other Japanese variations. But I'm glad Daedalus did all the tricky math to show that the quest isn't too hard using NA rules too. :)

All in all, it looks like it could be a very fun and challenging quest. :)


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