mitchiemasha wrote:There is no 'secret' equipment cards, there isn't any equipment cards, well apart from the original equipment deck that is used for the weapon rack search. There is only the Armoury... 1 place. A player can study it as much as they like, just as much as we study into the game or not! They aren't skills, they're functions of the equipment.
I don't want them having to check the equipment rules to see how each hero works.
mitchiemasha wrote:For instance... Jumping the pit on all but black is already in the game. Rabbit Boots! Anyone can choose to buy these. The player chooses their own progression. However some start skills offer benefits over artifacts and items purchased later on, that is all that is hinted at the start. Those who look into it more, think about it more will likely progress with better characters, which is another reflection of perfection!
If you say so.
And so what if there's an item in one of the quest packs that lets a hero do what the assassin gets as standard?
mitchiemasha wrote:The conclusions you jump to in your replies is how i can tell you missed the point. This is hard to put in words. You don't know what the point being missed is if you're still missing it. When people imply they didn't they usually still are!
The point is... the system is complex, but it doesn't appear that way. The complexity is hidden in the design, underneath, unlike being presented with "do this when that but only if" multiple times on 1 character on each character. Which ends up looking more complex than it is.
If it's likely to seem too complex for the players then advancement skills aren't known until they actually advance, simple. I don't want hidden complexity, I want unique and characterful heroes with their abilities clearly laid out on the hero cards.
mitchiemasha wrote:I'm going to add Evade as a potion... Dancer!
So the dwarf or anyone else can evade. No thank you.
mitchiemasha wrote:You did it again, jumped to the wrong conclusion of my words. Although my progression does it the HQ way, with weapons, my words "The game grows as you grow" has nothing to do with if it's weapons or skills progression tree.
"the game grows as you grow" comment is purely to reference that the level of complexity you have to learn about the game, grows as you play it. The rules expand as you play it, they get deeper and more involving. This could be done with either skills and/or weapons. Usually new Quest bring about the new ideas as heroes would find an item in a search and use it or the Quest notes require a new action. Again though, i don't want to add too much here to throw from my point.
New artifacts can be added into quests to add that type of progression but I don't want them having crap loads of permanent items and I do want hero specific abilities.
mitchiemasha wrote:The point to the 'growth' comment wasn't just the growth of your character, which happens in your system as equal as any. The 'growth' comment is, when you start the game you have very little to learn, you simply play, then as you come to realise certain things, like standard HQ, always searching for traps first etc, more is realised. With out being told it as such!
I prefer the rules to be clear.
mitchiemasha wrote:On your character the complete progression is there in stone, at the start, although your character will grow as you play, there's no learning through the game, discovery and again, i don't mean as in hidden. It wasn't hidden in the original HQ to always search for traps first but as a child, you soon discover to do that. You learn how to play the game well, playing it!
Yes the skill progression is there in stone because that's exactly what I want. I don't want the ability to be every class rolled into one through items or even a progression tree because I want to keep it simple. It in no way restricts the learning experience of playing through the game, bringing in new skills as the heroes progress adds to it but in a controlled way that makes sure you don't end up with magical barbarians and ninja dwarves.
mitchiemasha wrote:It's really hard to paint the picture i'm trying to describe.
I know what you're trying to describe and I'm not interested in doing that way for the reasons I've explained but you're of course free to do it however you want. I don't know how many times I tried to politely say thanks but no thanks and end the conversation but you're not taking the hint.
Gold Bearer wrote:I'm the opposite, I prefer them as skills because it makes heroes a lot more distinctive and characterful. You could make 'skill' items hero specific of course and get a very similar result (feel free if you like them and want to do it that way) but I prefer to put them on the characters themselves, personal preference I suppose.
Gold Bearer wrote:The only way I can see that method working is if equipment works differently for different heroes and again, I think that's better kept on the hero skills. But again, just personal preference.
Gold Bearer wrote:I do see where you're coming from and I'm not trying to argue but for me they're definitely staying on the heroes where I think they belong. If you want to use any of them for items then feel free.
Gold Bearer wrote:That's why I prefer to keep them with the hero's rules where they can be easily referenced and that way you get to upgrade specific rules as the heroes progress.
Gold Bearer wrote:Skills for heroes who have advanced can be kept secret if you want to keep the rules simple to start with and they're all in one place when they are needed. Advancement rules are obviously just an optional extra anyway, they work fine without them. I just think it's something that's needed in HQ and it helps to make the heroes more unique and fleshed out. If you want to do it differently that's fine but that's why they're staying on my heroes.
Do it however works best for you but don't try coming in here and criticising what I consider a much cleaner and simpler method that also lets me have more distinctive and characterful heroes.
And please stop spamming the thread with double and sometimes even triple posts! This thread is now bogged down with *lemony goodness*, cheers.
knightkrawler wrote:I'll go ahead and claim I understand what you mean. I recently got rid of my 12 starting characters and 5 spell decks and offer just the four basics with one spell deck. Heroes can now buy skills along with equipment as they earn money and develop in whatever direction they want. It's still an advncement system that doesn't allow the Wizard to attack with two weapons, but it's open. You learn, you develop, you advance. Both the Barbarian and the Elf can become Ninja-like characters...
It opens up the game for what it is.
I prefer to actually have a ninja and the barbarian and elf to be what they were originally intended, but thanks for your input.