Dungeon! and Warhammer Online based Characters

[Templar]

If you want more dwarven characters, might I suggest semi-evil reformed Chaos Dwarves, in paralell with the ex-chosen as a barbarian alternative...Infernal guard and Demonsmith comes to mind as possible choices. If you don't like that idea, Longbeard (veteran) and Ranger from the warhammer fantasy dwarf army list might be more suitable...

In any case, I feel that the dwarf classes are too few, and the elf classes to many. Maybe that is because I am a sucker for symmetry... One thing you could do is to make two characters like cleric and thief generic, so that they convey specific abilities regardless of which class it is. I imagine normal Elf and Dwarf thiefs, while the Barbarian-thief would be a straight up grunt robber, and the wizard-thief would be a sort of spell-knowing outcast. ...Could work...

Just my

[WiseOne]

I like those ideas and will work on them. I am uploading versions for the mercenary types as well. The reason for calling them subtypes of those races was nt to convey that they are part of the races. Rather all of the various other rules, items, etc. assume that they are only those four types. Thus the thief can use all equipment usable by an elf. That is also why there are more of that type. The elf is a character of magic and might with light body points and the doesn't walk around in the highest equipment. This makes him an ideal template to create many of the others. So we could simply say the thief can use any equipment that the elf can use unless Zargon says otherwise, etc. Actually worked on the cleric today and added some equipment. But similarly its also for the perks from Phoenix. If something says not usable by such and such, then you know what type can use it. I actually prefer dwarves myself. The thief is pretty complex as it is with his special equipment. So its really only for template purposes, not to necessarily convey an actual race although many of them do. Mechanically the swordmaster is a subset of barbarian.

I have now also altered the armory and balanced a few of the characters. I am also leaning to the thief being to powerful early on so I am removing the cloak from him but considering adding it as a perk. Also I added the swashbuckler I hinted at.

I have rebalanced several classes instead of the thief and changed some items. Still will be a work in progress

I want to thank Blackthorn et. al and acknowledge their work for the mercenaries that I have expanded on

[Templar]

The reason for calling them subtypes of those races was nt to convey that they are part of the races. Rather all of the various other rules, items, etc. assume that they are only those four types. Thus the thief can use all equipment usable by an elf. That is also why there are more of that type. The elf is a character of magic and might with light body points and the doesn't walk around in the highest equipment. This makes him an ideal template to create many of the others.

Aaaaah...gotcha! That is a very nice and easy to work with concept.

With that in mind, maybe one of my personal favourite characters could be possible to implement:

Fieldsmith
Naturally strong, yet can use all (or allmost all) weapons and armour (since he practices with everything he makes )
Standard template would be or , depending on how close to the front line one imagines him...

[WiseOne]

A few more have been added including my firest attempt at the field smith and demonsmith. Let me know what you think. I have also retitled the thread because I have been basing the Cleric and Thief and now the Bard and Paladin on articles from Dragon Magazine for adding these classes to the original Dungeon! game

[Templar]

Fieldsmith
-As dwarf, loses trap ability, gains 25 percent discount on all weapon and armor purchases
Weapon Smith - +1 AD with Melee Weapons
Salvage - Once per quest you may salvage a weapon from a monster. Roll 1 red die: 1-3 dagger, 4-5 short sword, 6 broadsword
Armor Training - Ignore check penalty in armor
Armor Smith - +1 DD in Chain or Plate Mail

Nice mate! Just the types of special rules I imagined

[WiseOne]

Glad you like it. I have updated the armory as well now.

[Daedalus]

The Armory choices seem to make sense. Could you put the warhammer rules in you update?

I worry about the great bow and the heavy crossbow, however. That's a lot of attack power that often can't be reciprocated by the monsters too far away to attack. No shield usually doesn't matter much with distance attacks, and high cost only works as a delay. How about limiting the heavy crossbow to no movement while attacking?

I'd say 4 combat dice is plenty for a ranged attack, but to keep the great bow maybe it's combat dice could be limited to half of a Hero's starting Body Points, rounded down (max 5 combat dice). Maybe current Body Points should be used instead--up to 5 combat dice from afar is scary. With the Amulet of the North artifact from the BQP a Barbarian could then get 5 combat dice with it. Lower Body Point Heroes could still use it at 3 or 4 combat dice and still avoid a move-or-fire restriction of the heavy crossbow if you include that restriction.

For both the heavy crossbow and the great bow, another possibility is to require puchased ammunition to keep the cost meaninful after max-out of equipment. Might even be a good idea for a short bow at a lower cost.

If you keep a great bow at 5 combat dice, I'd recommend adding a bigger battle axe, greatsword, or similar two-handed weapon for an adjacent attack that can deal equivalent damage.

As for the Heroes, that's a load of great ideas brought together in a comprehensive list--thanks for sharing! You've put a lot of thought into the choices. Playtesting them all will take a while...I hope anyone who tries them posts here.

[WiseOne]

I like that movement restriction. It takes an action to reload. May not move in the same turn that you fire it. I have adjusted the power of the great bow as well. I was originally having it higher to represent the Japanese great bow's depiction in D&D being more powerful then even a heavy crossbow but I have adjusted it. Didn't realize I hadn't included the warhammer attack dice


As for our playtest, my wife and I are nearing the last quest of the first book
Berserker (Barbarian) currently has Borin's Armor, Longsword, Shield, Helmet (3AD/6DD)
Druid (Wizard) currently has Sling, Hierophant's Staff, Mystic's Cloak, Bracers( 2AD/4DD/1RD)
Ironbreaker (Dwarf) currently has Warhammer, Plate Mail, Helmet (5 AD/5DD)
Thief (Elf) currently has Longsword, Mithril Armor (3AD/4DD)

So far it has been pretty balanced and haven't noticed any significant issues. The barbarian is lagging currently but we are saving up for the Sword and Shield perk. And once we can afford the Death Blade he will function even better. Final scores with class perks and Phoenix's perks should look like Berserker (6AD/7DD) Ironbreaker (5AD/6DD/3RD) Druid (3AD/4DD/2RD) Thief (5AD/5DD/3RD)

Thanks for the support.

[WiseOne]

Hope everyone is doing well. I'm back. We are continuing our game now. Anywho, I have added a few more classes including the Bright Wizard, Illusionist, and Ranger as well as some notes on Legendary abilities. Thanks to some ideas from others and re-looking at my Dungeon! information I have now revised the Cleric and Bard and added the Monk as well.

-Wise One

[WiseOne]

Made some typo corrections and modified a few of the classes including Cleric, Druid, Thief, and Halfling. Hopefully a little more balanced. Added a simplified Thief. Cloak of Protection functions as originally intended now. We are now on our way through Kellar's Keep. It's been awhile since we played.