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Have a look to my NEW Heroes!

PostPosted: Monday March 18th, 2013 8:55am
by Kaiyanwang
Edit, NOTE: Since the first time I posted, people contributed with very insightful suggestions, and I had time to look in this forum and around the internet extensively. I just do this for the fun of it, and I happily give credit to the whole forum for my creations. Feel free to take what you want, and If I should give specific credits, PM me and I will point it out in the specific passage

I am currently working on a retro-clone of Heroquest. I started with the idea of keep all more or less the same, just integrating the quests more on a prolonged story and changing some fluff for flavor (I prefer change the Ring of return to a Horn, a sort of homage to Boromir) or because of minis (I can find Beastmen easily, Fimirs.. less so).

Nonetheless, as a former RPG (D&D, Pathfinder) player, I was just wondering to add more classes for each "niche" the original four Heroes filled. I had a look to the various skills and abilities monsters get, and to items the Heroes have access to, to create some combination. This is what I have created so far - could you please kindly tell me what do you think? I tried to keep it as simple as possible. Each "original" hero is now part of a "slot". You can only have one hero per slot, in the same way as in the "normal" game you cannot have a party with 3 Elves.

Every character will have indicated Body, Mind, Weapon proficiency, Armor proficiency, Power (pure strength, like the ability of break doors in AtOH) Special Rules (like spells for the wizard).

Would you play this new heroes? Are they any inspiring or interesting? Regardless the answer, why?

Changes I made you should know (most of them are things I found on this very site and reworked, please point it out anytime I should give credit):
The general framework is the american version, so :chaoswarrior: CW with 3 wounds, and Chaos Spells for Chaos Warlocks.
The available spells are from adventure 1 are the “seven lores”. That is, The Four elemental ones, and the ones found in Wizard of Morcar. Changed Divination to Light, Protection to Arcane, and Shadow... to Shadow :lol:
Weapons are the american ones + the ones present only in the English Version. The access is limited there are 1-2 card copies in base of the weapon or armor. The Crossbow is just 1, and there is 1 Bow rolling 2 dice, the Longsword has been changed to a Glaive not allowing a shield. The Shortsoword attacks diagonally. Wizard can purchase 2 dice attack Staff (called Hexstaff) Cloak and Bracers like in the English version. This stuff is wizard only and is not considered when I say “Weapons: all”.
Spellscrolls became single-use wondrous items one can draw from treasure, but can activated normally only with a Mind Point test (you must roll your mind point or less on a d6 or the effect is lost).
No mercenaries (but there is an exception, see below).
Potions from treasure are on purchase, but you can still find them. The more the game progresses, more they are available, more diverse and powerful (both the ones you find in the dungeon, and the ones on purchase follow this rule).
Artifacts that are 1 use only are changed to 1-per-Chapter. A chapter is a whole story arc, like, say, the Elf Quest Pack.


Warriors - warriors are the front-liners of the adventuring group. They belong to an archetypal group of "fighter" classes. :barbarian:

Barbarian: Attack: 3 Defend: 2 Movement: 2d6 Body: 8; Mind: 2; Weapons: All Armor: All; Special: Power 4; Later in game can take specific rituals to go berserk (refluff of barbarian-only potions from Barbarian Quest, I am considering to reduce the cost or transform them in 1-per-quest berserk rages).

Paladin: Attack: 2 Defend: 2 Movement: 2d6 Body: 7; Mind: 3 ; Weapons: No Two Handed Armor: All; Special: Power 3; Blessed: When defending, attacking and rolling against Chaos Spells effects, always rolls one dice more, then discards one dice at his choice.

Marshal: Attack: 2 Defend: 2 Movement: 2d6 Body: 7; Mind: 3 ; Weapons: No Two-handed Armor: All ; Special: Power 3: Leadership: can hire 1 mercenary starting with the choice between scout and pikemam (2 dice diagonal), later gains more powerful ones like greatsword (the attack 4 defend 5 guy) and crossbowman. Stats of mercenaries are comparable to the ones of the game. I can consider an “artifact” like a noble title or something to hire 2 mercenaries in later quests, but is difficult to balance.

Monk: Attack: 2 Defend: 2 Movement: 3d6 choose 2 Body: ; 6 Mind: 4 ; Weapons: Dagger, Staff, Hexstaff, Axe, Glaive Armor: None; Special: Diehard: Is enough for the monk roll one shield to negate all the attacker skulls, like the Dark Warriors in Dark Company quest. For later quest, I am considering to let the monk purchase mantle and bracers like the wizard, or to give him a Monk belt to increase defense.

Experts -experts support the warriors and add useful skills, generally for defensive purpose and/or for the party :dwarf:

Dwarf: Attack: 2 Defend: 2 Movement: 2d6 Body: 7; Mind:3 ; Weapons: All Armor: All ; Special: Power 3. Trapfinding (as normal) and Endurance (in some quest the Dwarf has a diminished effect from some hazard). He and the Barbarian are the only ones able to wield an Hammer wich is similar to the one found in A growl of Thunder.

Ranger: Attack: 2 Defend: 2 Movement: 2d6 Body: 7; Mind: 3; Weapons: All Armor: All but plate (but yes Borin Armor); Special: Power 3. Track: Wandering monsters in the same room or corridor as the Ranger does not gain initiative - they will fight in Morcar’s (or Zargon’s ;) ) next turn, because Heroes have time to organize (the Ranger already tracked them and is not surprised!). This class prevents less damage from traps but more from Wandering Monsters. Probably the Elf Bow will be evolved to something cool for this guy.

Assassin: Attack: 1/1 Defend: 2 Movement: 3d6 choose 2 Body: 6; Mind: 4; Weapons: Daggers, Shortsword, Bow Armor: none ; Special: Power 2. Trapfinding (like Dwarf). Doublestrike: like polar bear. In melee (should I add the with bow, too?), he can attack twice with the weapon is wielding, and the second attack cannot be defended! A nasty, nasty glass cannon. Later in the game, he will develop poisons for extra damage and paralyzing effects (not more than three).

Inquisitor: Attack: 2 Defend: 2 Movement: 2d6 Body: 6; Mind: 4 ; Weapons: All, but not Two-handed, Pistol Armor: all but plate (and NO Borin); Special: Power 2; Mettle: Every time a roll of one or more d6 is made to avoid the effect of a Chaos Spell or effect, the Inquisitor considers a 5+ a successful save instead of a 6+(say, to avoid the 2 BP damages of a spell, he rolls 2 dice and hopes in two 5+ instead of two 6). In Addition, has the exclusive access to the experimental pistol, a new weapon given to inquisition. The 1-handed pistol makes a 3-dice ranged attack per quest, that cannot be defended against.

Gishes - Gishes mix martial prowess with magical support, with a greater or lesser expertise in one or another :elf:

Elf: Attack:2 Defend: 2Movement: 2d6 Body: 6; Mind: 4 ; Weapons: All Armor: All ; Special: Power 2. Can choose and cast 1 Lore of spells. He will keep his special toys a little bit reworked.

Cleric: Attack: 1 Defend: 2 Movement: 2d6 Body: 5 ; Mind:5 ; Weapons: Dagger, Staff, Hexstaff, Hammer (is like the handaxe) Armor: All (included Borin); Special: Power 1. He can choose and cast TWO lore of spell. Is like the elf but less punchy and more casty. Later he will have the chance to get a sacred relic to more punch and to create holy water.

Alchemist/b]: [b]Attack: 2 Defend: 2 Movement: 2d6 Body: 6; Mind: 4; Weapons: Daggers, Shortsword, Bow Armor: Not plate (and not Borin); Special: Power 1; Can cast 1 lore of spells; start quest with 2 free potions available from that scenario (so when the story goes on, he has more choice). Later in the game he will find a way to create a third potion for the beginning of the quest.

Bard: Attack: 2 Defend: 2 Movement: 2d6 Body: 6; Mind: 4; Weapons: Daggers, Shortsword, Bow Armor: All but plate (no Borin); Special: Power 1; Can cast 1 Spell lore; Magical Aptitude: will alway pass the test to use wondrous items. In addition, if he is the only user, he can use twice artifacts normally usable once per Chapter.

Magicians - Magicians offer their support mostly in the form of supernatural powers. :wizard:

Wizard: Attack: 1Defend: 2 Movement: 2d6 Body: 4; Mind: 6 ; Weapons: Dagger, Staff, Hexstaff Armor: Bracers and Mantle ; Special: Power 1. Can cast thre lores of spells. Still has the wonderful toys of the core game, and later can add few more tricks to his sleeve.

Witch: Attack: 1Defend: 2 Movement: 2d6 Body: 4; Mind: 6; Weapons: Dagger, Staff, Hexstaff Armor: none; Special: Power 1. Can choose and cast 6 different chaos spells, but Morcar/Zargon has complete and absolute priority with all his casting monsters. Summoned Chaos creatures will last maximum three turns. Same control Spells. Chaos is hard for the not completely corrupted. Before the torch and pitchforks crowd gathers (very appropriate for a Witch!) I have to say I am not sure on this one, but I wanted to try a “dark” character that uses evil vs evil. Later in the game more spells are available because of expansions. Wizard artifacts cannot be used for Chaos Spells.

Sorcerer: Attack: 1Defend: 2Movement: 2d6 Body: 4 ; Mind: 6 ; Weapons: Dagger, Staff, Hexstaff Armor: Bracers and Mantle; Special: Power 1, 2 Spell lores (6 spells total), Spellmastery on one Lore: in other words, the Sorcerer casts less spell but the ones of 1 School will be cast twice, and this stacks with the approrpiate artifact. It’s inspired by D&D Sorcerer. Same toy than the Wizard.

Druid: Attack: 1Defend: 2 Movement: 2d6 Body: 5; Mind: 5 ; Weapons: Dagger, Staff, Spear Armor: Mantle; Special: Power 1. Can cast 2 lores of Spell. Wildshape: at the beginning of his turn, he can sacrifice a spell (discard it without effect) to Wildshape into an animal. Wolf: change attack to 3 dice, defense to 3, move 3d6 and discard one. Boar: attack 3, defense 4. Lion: attack 4, defense 3. It lasts 1 turn (undecided, better two?). Later artifacts can improve duration, and give more animals and dire versions of the base ones. Or maybe I should just create three wildshape cards, one per animal - but in this way is more versatile (but loses many spells).

So, that is. Perhaps I should exchange place between Druid (going into Gishes) and Cleric (going into Magicians). Any suggestion, playtest, or plain “this will not work” is appreciated. Ask in thread or PM for any clarification. Point me out people I should credit (I guess at least Gravaillon for the spellscroll rule, is it possible?).

Thank you so much in advance.

Re: Have a look to my NEW Heroes!

PostPosted: Monday March 18th, 2013 8:56am
by Kaiyanwang
I reserve this space for answers and clarifications.

Re: Have a look to my NEW Heroes!

PostPosted: Monday March 18th, 2013 9:16am
by torilen
I'll have to read more later - but so far, I like the idea for the monk. I haven't actually read Dark Company, so I didn't know about
the special power of the Dark Warriors, able to negate all skulls with one shield.
I might suggest only allowing bracers and/or cloaks later...perhaps after the base quest pack...maybe simply allow one more
defense die per quest pack finished. Or, at the minimum, maybe one more DD every 6 or 7 quests (double the number of quests
I would use for any other type of "level-up" idea or ability).

Lots of magic users - looking forward to reading them...looks like you've got some neat ideas.


If you're interested in balancing you quests...take a look at my thoughts on this...it seems to work for me, so far.
Most of the up-to-date info is on the second page of this thread.
viewtopic.php?f=143&t=1159&start=10

Re: Have a look to my NEW Heroes!

PostPosted: Tuesday March 19th, 2013 7:12am
by Kaiyanwang
Thank you Torilen! The thread linked is very interesting and when I have again some free time, I want to re-calculate my heroes using the system indicated there :)

In case, I will do the same for monsters for quest-planning. I just wonder how calculate some stuff (like, say, that "Dark Company" power above*: I guess is more powerful than, say, roll 3d6 and choose 2 for moving).

|_P

*I renamed it "Diehard" for monsters too

Re: Have a look to my NEW Heroes!

PostPosted: Tuesday March 19th, 2013 9:17am
by torilen
From what I have figured so far, most special abilities use a power of 3. Minor ones
might use a power of 2; very few would use 1. Example of a power of 1 - maybe simply
being able to move more than other heroes or monsters.

Now, of course, if you think some monster deserves MORE power, you could add more.
For example...in all honesty, a dragon's breath attack should be a power of 4 or 5.

Re: Have a look to my NEW Heroes!

PostPosted: Tuesday March 19th, 2013 7:17pm
by Daedalus
Lots of cool ideas you have here. Since there were so many characters it was a lot to get a handle on, but here's a couple of afterthoughts:

I'd restrict the Chaos spell selection for the Witch. Some of those spells clear an entire room or corridor. That could make a Quest too easy. I'd go with three seperate animal cards for your Druid. Since the combat dice reflect normal ranges, consider extending the duration until no monsters are seen.

Re: Have a look to my NEW Heroes!

PostPosted: Wednesday March 20th, 2013 6:47pm
by Kaiyanwang
Thank you for the answers.

@ Torilen: so far, using the points, the character look fair balanced. Just the Bard looks slightly overpowered but not de facto since the special power is maybe the weakest. Inquisitor needs some help and the monk needs desperate help. I will probably expand the defense and offense, but before I want to crunch numbers and probabilities due to his special ability. Assassin looks good, yay.

Druid is overpowered, but I would prefer not drop him to 4 HP. I will be careful with Wildshapes. Probably nerfed at the beginning, and then a Shillelagh, magic Mistletoe or similar item will enhance them. When casters will get the fourth spell per school (carefully recycled Elf Spells), Druid will get a 4th form, the spider form.

@ Daedalus: I will go with Card Wildshape. Lion, Boar and Wolf. Offensive, Defensive, and hybrid + movement. Then I will go with a duration courage-like. This look cool but need playtesting more than anything else... :shock:

For the Witch, I just wonder if is not just the case to create a small deck of reworkce spells inspired by the Chaos ones. If going "classic" (as above), the score is 4 HP, 1 attack, 2 defense, 6 spells, 2 special ability (the Chaos Casting itself). It is 15. Nonetheless, yeah, summon 6 orks is way more than call a Genie. :| I have to think carefully...

Re: Have a look to my NEW Heroes!

PostPosted: Tuesday September 24th, 2013 7:11am
by Kaiyanwang
Hello everybody, Grüessech mitenand! I was away for hard work, but I came back to work to my version of HQ.

Update! I reworked the Witch Spells as tuned down chaos ones. They are powerful, but the Witch has no cures! Mindless are the Skeleton, Zombie or Wight (Mummy) undeads, and in my version cannot be affacted by spells and effects influencing mynd points or requiring mindpoint-based saves.

Control Undead: The caster takes control of a target Mindelss Undead - that is, a Skeleton, Zombie or Wight (Mummy). The Undead is now under the caster player's control, and will fight to the heroes side for three turns or until destroyed (whoever comes first). There is no save allowed. Altnernatively, it can be cast on a Ghoul to forbid him to Snatch, but it will in no way control the monster or forbid him to attack. This spell is then discarded.

Blink: The caster can move in any square already explored on the gameboard, but only if did not move this turn and cannot take any further action this turn. This spell is then discarded.

Paralysis: Chaos Frost Spell. The target is immediately attacked with two attack dice, from whom he cannot defend. If at least a Body Point is inflicted, an equivalent amount of mind point is inflicted as well, and the target will go in Shock if the Mind Point score reaches zero.

Charme: The Caster instills a false sense of friendship into the enemy. The target will be unable to attack the Heroes and will move each turn of 1d6 in a direction decided by who casted this spell. At the beginning of its turn, the target must roll one d6 per mind point. If a 6 is rolled, the effect of this spell is negated. This spell is then discarded.

Angst: The Target of this spell is overcomed by terror. He cannot attack or cast spells, but can move and defend normally. At the beginning of its turn, the target can cast one d6 per mind point. If a 6 is rolled, the effect of this spell is negated. This spell maximum duration is three rounds. This spell is then discarded.

Curse: The target of this spell will lose 1 Body Point, no save. Moreover, must immediately launch one d6 per mind point. If at least one six is not rolled, the target will be unable to move and attack in the same turn. He will be able to do one of the two, but not both. This second effect lasts three rounds. This spell is then discarded.

Hellfire: Chaos Fire spell. This Spell can be cast on any one Monster in the normal line of sight. It will inflict 2 Body Point of damage. The target can reduce or avoid this damage rolling two d6. Each 6 rolled will reduce the damage by 1. Then, look if there is another monster adjacent to the first target; this spell will inflict to that monster 1 Body Point of damage. The target can avoid this damage rolling one d6. A 6 rolled will negate the damage. The spell is then discarded.

Puppeteer: The caster takes control of a target Monster. The Monster cannot be Mindelss and/or Undead. The Monster is now under the caster player's control, and will fight to the heroes side for three turns or until destroyed (whoever comes first). At the beginning of its turn, the Monster can roll 1d6 per Mind Point, and is free from the controll once he rolls a 6. The spell effect nonetheless expires anyway after 3 turns. This spell is then discarded.

Consume: Target monster has the equipment completely compromised and destroyed, consumed by eldricht energy. The attack dice of the monster are reduced by 2 (minimum 1). Alternatively, the defence dice of the monster can be lowered by one (minimum 1). There is no save. This spell is then discarded.

They look dire,but remember that Witch means no cures. I added the Elf spells as secrets to other schools, obtainable when Wizards of Zargon/Morcar are defeated. This increases the spells per School by, with a total of four. As an example, Slow is an Earth Secret and Deep Sleep is a water secret. This will help the casters a little bit since during the last quests the enemies require a lot of tactics and use of spells to be defeated! Morevoer, It's a kind of cool level up in my humble opinion.

So, I prepared the 3 additional spells for the Witch:

Control Spirits: This spell can be cast in two ways, chosen in the moment of the casting. The first is Banish: Target Demon (Flamer, Bloodletter, Plague Daemon or Daemonette) or Wraith is temporarily banished in the space between its realm of origin and this world. The target is stuck in place and unable to take any action for 3 turns. Thre is no save allowed for this effect. The second possible effect is to send a vengeful spirit to attack with 4 dice any target on the table. This spell is then discarded. (note: high stats monsters in later expansions will be substituted by demons because 1 - Demons are cool, 2 - it's a category that interacts with spells and artifacts, 3 - I have the minis of them)

Call Beast: The Witch will call a Beast to fight for her. This beast can be a Wolf, a Boar, Lion or a Spider chosen among the Druid's Wildshapes. The Beast remains for 3 rounds, has 1 Mind Point and 4 Body points, then is dismissed. This spell is then discarded.

Negation: This spell can be cast when an enemy magic user casts a spell. Both characters roll a d6 and add their Mind Point score. If the score of the Caster of this spell is Higher, the enemy spell is immediately countered - that is, is discarded without any affect. This spell is then discarded.


Since I was on this route, I created Frost Spells altering Chaos Frost Spells from The Frozen Horror and Wizards of Morcar. You need a side quest to find these spells. EDIT: the spells has been modified to fit more the original Chaos ones I was inspired to. This is due to feedback from my players.

Ice Bulwark: The caster creates 1 blocks of ice as a defense. The block can be placed in any free square within the caster's sight. The blocks stop the movement. The block has 5 Body Points and cannot defend. Alternatively, the caster can cast this spell during Morcar's turn and place the block on his square. The ice will enclose the caster until the beginning of his next turn. The caster cannot move, act or be affected unless the block is first destroyed. This spell is then discarded.

Whiteout: The Caster chooses an area 2 squares large and 2 squares wide (but if it's divided by a wall, only one side will be affected at the caster's choice among the sides visible to him). Monsters and heroes in the space will be unable to move, make ranged attacks or cast spells until the beginning of the Caster's next turn. Figures may attack or defend ony if they are adjacent to another figure.There is no save for this effect. This spell is then discarded.

Cold Touch: This spell can be cast against an adjacent target. if the target is an enemy, terrible chills will devastated him and 1 Body Point will be inflicted unless he rolls a 6 on a d6. If the target is a friend, the fresh touch will soothe the pain and he will recover 2 Body Points. This spell is then discarded.

The extremely powerful spell secret is:

Hailstorm: The Caster choose an area 2 squares large and 2 squares wide (but if it's divided by a wall, only one side will be affected at the caster's choice among the sides visible to him). All Monsters and Heroes in the area will be attacked with 3 combat dice, with no defense allowed. This spell is then discarded.

Monk revamp, druid wildshapes as separate spells, and perhaps Marshall's Henchmen to come. Stay tuned.

Re: Have a look to my NEW Heroes!

PostPosted: Tuesday September 24th, 2013 8:00am
by Sjeng
good to see you again! keep the custom stuff coming!

Re: Have a look to my NEW Heroes!

PostPosted: Wednesday September 25th, 2013 9:26am
by Kaiyanwang
I will. Not so regularly, but I will.... but please, give me feedback! In this case, especially regarding the Frost Spells, I wonder if is the case of removing the sliding one, and split the secret in Area Damage Spell (secret) and blinding sleet (controll effect as one of the three"normal" ones).