Blunderbuss or not.

[Gold Bearer]

How about an anti-matter powered dual core plasma rifle?

Funny you should mention that. From the little-known first draft of the Rules of Play:

". . . Then came the day for which Rogar had waited. His army had grown strong and was well practised. Camping in the passes. [sic] Ladril saw the Black Hosts from afar and bade Durgin to blow them away with his mighty anti-matter powered dual core plasma rifle. . . ."

[The Admiral]

How about an anti-matter powered dual core plasma rifle?

Or a Skaven warpfire thrower team. At some stage in my HQ gaming career this will get an appearance and will need rules.

[tallyho]

How about an anti-matter powered dual core plasma rifle?

Or a Skaven warpfire thrower team. At some stage in my HQ gaming career this will get an appearance and will need rules.

How about an anti-matter powered dual core plasma rifle?

That certainly would give us some wtf moments

Chaos.PNG

[The Admiral]

Mmmm...Space Crusade. The Heroquest of 40,000 years in the future.

[tallyho]

Maybe its true what they say. You never get finished with your own cards. So here is a update.
The only dice you roll is for a successful fire or not, 2 white attack dice, and the shot is on its way.
Thanks for the help everyone.

[HispaZargon]

Firearms Yes or Firearms No in HeroQuest...

Well... first of all, to be honest I am one of the ones who think that the classic HeroQuest is very based on the classic Warhammer Fantasy lore. Moreover, I like to accept than other games of same era like Advanced HeroQuest and Battle Masters also belong to the same universe as HeroQuest. Of course each Zargon player may have an opinion about this, but thinking that way I think helps a lot to introduce new homebrew interesting and enriching addons to the game since there are tons of information about Warhammer Fantasy world.

Does this mean that I fully accept everything from 80's and early 90's Warhammer in HeroQuest? Well, mostly yes, but understanding that the HeroQuest period is a some kind of primitive era or something similar. Of course this is a different topic already discussed in several threads, so I will not extend it more here... nevertheless, what about firearms? well, in my opinion, according to what I mentioned above, firearms should exist in HeroQuest world, why not... if according to Battle Masters game we accept that Impaerial armies have cannons, it means the gunpowder is known, so I think may also exist other gunpowder weapons. However, I agree with other members that have already said that in case those weapons exist, they should be rare, moreover inside a dungeon.

In Warhammer Fantasy Battles 3rd Edition, which is supposed to loosely be based the classic HeroQuest, co-existed three different firearms: Blunderbuss, Arquebus and Pistol, so during last weeks I have been trying to design some vanilla rules for them to allow their rare use in HeroQuest, here I share them with you:

BLUNDERBUSS:

- 3 Attack Dice.
- Requires 1 full turn for recharging (no Movement allowed).
- May be used against adjacent enemies.
- May NOT be used with a Shield.
- May only be used by the Dwarf and some specific Human Heroes.
- Cost: 200 gold coins.

ARQUEBUS:

- 3 Attack Dice.
- Armor High Penetration: the target will roll 1 combat die less when defending.
- Requires 1 full turn for recharging (no Movement allowed).
- May NOT be used against adjacent enemies.
- May NOT be used with a Shield.
- May only be used by the Dwarf and some specific Human Heroes.
- Cost: 450 gold coins

PISTOL:

- 3 Attack Dice.
- Armor High Penetration: the target will roll 1 combat die less when defending.
- Requires 1 full turn for recharging (no Movement allowed).
- Effective shooting range is 6 squares. (To Be Confirmed)
- May be used against adjacent enemies.
- May only be used by the Dwarf and some specific Human Heroes.
- Cost: 575 gold coins

Note: Potential "specific Human Heroes" are: Paladin/Knight, Human Warrior/Fighter (or Men-at-arms) or Witchhunter.

The Arquebus shoots one bullet per shot and I consider that it is the regular firearm used by Imperial Handgunners and Dwarves. I gave it the same attack dice as a crossbow based on the WFB rules for those weapons, but adding the high penetration rule.

I understand the Blunderbuss as the less powerful firearm because of its rude design, it is the regular firearm the one used by Skavens for example (I love the Advanced HeroQuest's skaven blunderbuss gunner 3D model created by Enfenix that you can download here). This weapon shoots an ammount of small pellets per shot so you don't need to point too much to the target. I have intentionally avoided to introduce any complicated rule about potential weapon failure when dired or pellets dispersion when they are fired, like defining an arc of fired squares which could allow shooting different enemies with just one shot and so on, just looking for simplicity as HeroQuest is supposed to be.

And finally the Pistol, which are supposed to be rare items since they are sophisticated devices and very useful, especially inside a dungeon, so their price is higher. They are exacly the same as the Arquebus but with limited range and they can be used to attack adjacent enemies. I need to confirm if 6 squares is a good range or not for the game, but I think yes since it is the maximum length of the biggest room of the board, the central one. A single hero could use two pistols, one per hand, which may allow him shooting two consecutive turns without recharging. In WHF 3rd Edition, pistols are widely used by Imperial Nobles, Witchhunters, Dwarven champions, Skaven bosses, and some Chaos Thugs. But not many more races.

Chaos Dwarves from WFB 3rd Edition don't have too many firearms, although the already had cannons, but in 4th Edition they also had powerful blunderbusses with very high dispersion, however I see those blunderbusses a different kind of weapon than the one I discribed above.

I will not introduce Muskets, another firearm seen in later Warhammer editions. They are too-battlefield firearms for me, in fact they are basically arquebuses designed for very long ranges, so their concept doesn't fit inside a dungeon, I think.

Well, I fully respect the idea of undertanding this game more as a Sword & Sorcery lore, and I know firearms are not welcome for many HeroQuest players, but if somebody wants to introduce these weapons on the board, I think these rules could be well balanced. Yeah, the Arqeubus and the Pistol could automatically kill a Goblin if rolled just 1 Skull or more, but rest of the mosnters have more than 1 Defend Dice so they still have a chance for surviving the shot.I didn't want to give these weapons more than 3 attack dice to avoid letting them killing large creatures like Ogres in an easy way, for example, and because I think the damage caused by a non-modern bullet should be similar to the one caused by a crossbow quarrel due to both should have mostly the same cross-section area, I only added just the armor penetration for those firearms except for the blunderbuss since their pellets should have less size and less mass and in fact less kinetic energy, I think. Therefore, knowing they need recharging, I don't see anyone of these weapons too overpowered and their high cost (except the most primitive blunderbuss) and thei Hero type use limitations will ensure they will not be too used in the game, but they could be there if wanted. Anyway, what do you think?

Before finishing this post, I would like to also say that lestodante nicely advised me about the use of firearms inside a dungeon since the loud noise caused when fired may easily alert other monsters in the dungeon, even placed at non explored areas, so maybe they could open a closed door and appear on the board to see what happens.... well, this also bring me to think about how to deal with loud noises caused by the Heroes inside a dungeon, but I will talk about it in other thread...

[Kurgan]

I've basically allowed firearms in HeroQuest via my De-Magicified mod (Alchemy replaces sorcery!). So Fire of Wrath is one of those rocket launchers from the animated "Mulan." It's still a rare skill, but let's face it, in the larger "lore" of HeroQuest there are firearms (the "mighty cannon" in Battle Masters comes to mind, but you can also find guns in Warhammer Fantasy Battle/RPG).

I generally don't pile them on, but my thought would be that firearms are useful but expensive, and not yet so reliable, hence there is still extensive use of other missile weapons (crossbows, other archery and throwing knives or axes, etc). I could imagine a soldier having a single shot sidearm and then drawing his more traditional blade or bludgeon for close range fighting.

As for loud noises, earplugs made of wax would work well, oh you mean the other thing, yeah that's an interesting mechanic (I was thinking of the noise that alerts zombies in "Dead of Winter" perhaps).

I also imagined a crossover between the worlds of Space Crusade ("loosely based on Warhammer 40k") and HeroQUest ("loosely based on Warhammer Fantasy") where the "chaos gods" (powerful aliens, basically your "daemons" from those lines) were armed with high tech weaponry and stepped (whether by chance or by foolish choice) into the other realm, but even they could be overwhelmed by unending waves of warriors dedicated to stopping an invasion of their world. Perhaps in a reversal of the Superman phenomenon, they were less powerful on foreign soil than on their own and this was their undoing? (but the old tales of these beings and fragments of lost technology continue to inspire would-be Zargon type figures to arise and attempt to harness this lost abominable power)

Wizards and Alchemists (or Psykers) to me seem to share an alike temptation... the draw of new and greater power. The endless struggle of dark and light, which makes the whole thing interesting and the perfect excuse to create more entertaining adventures.

[Zenithfleet]

Aha! This thread might be just what I'm looking for.

I was musing on how much of a slog it can be to play through the Kellar's Keep expansion, simply due to the large number of enemies you have to hack through. Official Heroquest rules generally only let you attack one monster at a time, so this can bog the game down.

I've been trying to think of ways to let the heroes attack multiple enemies at once. At first I was thinking about buying (training for) various skills. But after a browse through this thread I had a brainwave.

Kellar's Keep is the one quest pack where you really feel the tedium of massive hordes of enemies, right?

And where is it set? In an ancient Dwarf city.

Who in the Warhammer world has knowledge of gunpowder (and fancy experimental stuff like flamethrowers)? Dwarfs.

Well, and the humans of the Empire too. But I get the feeling that Heroquest is set somewhere in the distant past of the Empire, so maybe gunpowder isn't too well known there yet. Dwarfs are a much older civilisation, though. (I'm hazy on my Dwarf background info but HQ plays fast and loose with Warhammer fluff anyhow.)

Presumably this would also make sense in the new D&Dified Hasbroquest, if dwarves are steampunky there.

And Kellar's Keep could really do with some unique items and equipment to find. Especially in the EU edition that lacked new artifacts (quest treasures) and potions.

So how about being able to buy new equipment, or find it in chests or even treasure cards, once you get to Kellar's Keep? Dwarf-themed gunpowder weapons that let you attack multiple enemies at once--thus helping to deal with the tedious slog of fighting through the hordes?


A couple of rough ideas off the top of my head:

- Blunderbuss: Hits the square in front of you and the squares diagonally in front of you (three squares total). Good for rooms, especially blockades at doorways.

- Repeater pistol: Like a crossbow, but can fire several shots at different targets, or all at same target, in one attack.
e.g. it rolls 3 combat dice, but you can assign each die to a different visible enemy, or put them all onto the same enemy. Not so great in a passageway but useful inside rooms where enemies are spread out.

- Flamethrower type thingy: Hits two or three squares in a line in front of you. Great for clearing passageways.

- Firebomb: (a clunky grenade like a smaller version of the one from the Lord of the Rings movies that blows up the wall at Helm's Deep)
Pick a visible square, and it hits that square and all squares around it. This would be a one-use item, possibly found on a special Treasure card that you add to the deck while playing Kellar's Keep.
At first a 'grenade' might sound odd, but you can actually find and use these firebomb-type explosives in GW's Warhammer Quest.

These shouldn't need templates or anything like that.

To balance out the power of these things, the weapons could be unreliable or unstable and inclined to blow up if you roll badly. (e.g. if you roll all black shields, the weapon jams and can't be used again this quest, or it explodes in your face so that you discard the card and suffer a Body point loss.)


Someone joked about Space Crusade plasma rifles earlier, but Space Crusade is actually a good example of how to do simple area-effect weapons in a game like this.
e.g. the Missile Launcher hit a target square and all squares around it, while the Plasma Gun fired in a straight line and hit every enemy it passed through. A simple graphic showed the firing pattern for each weapon.

[HispaZargon]

About the rules for gunpower weapons I shared some posts ago, I think the Blunderbuss is too simple and cheap for a firearm weapon. 200 gold coins is the same price as a Hand axe, so it is difficult to believe it is also the same price for a Blunderbuss. Additionally, i think the Bluderbuss should be more different than the other ranged weapons, specially compared with the Crossbow, so I finally decide to make it more letal in close attacks, only against adjacent targets, to represent its projectiles will be more concentrated at such range. Therefore, I would define the Blunderbuss rules as follows, in line with my previous criteria:

BLUNDERBUSS:

- 3 Attack Dice (4 Attack Dice against adjacent targets)
- Requires 1 full turn for recharging (no Movement allowed).
- May be used against adjacent enemies.
- May NOT be used with a Shield.
- May only be used by the Dwarf and some specific Human Heroes.
- Cost: 375 gold coins.