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Sticker album

Discuss the HeroQuest Sticker Album by Merlin Stickers.

Re: Warhammer World Campaign Setting and Lore

Postby Cael Darkhollow » Saturday December 3rd, 2022 5:30am

Kurgan wrote:Great quality, I never actually looked at this before. Nice work everyone! Now to dredge up an old debate...

Daedalus wrote:I found some other pics and a scan.

Image Image

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I wonder who the artist/artists were. Perhaps he/they were given a Hero Quest game and made his/their own deductions as to what Morcar looked like, deciding that the screen art depicted Morcar. Or perhaps he/they were told by GW or MB that the screen showed Morcar. Shouldn't someone from either GW or MB have been advising this throughout the process before the art was finalized? Then again, the same should have applied to the HeroQuest Marvel Winter Special, where Stephen Baker was advising. Either one or both communication lines were insufficient for supervising Morcar's look. Seems like in at least one case it was the plan to have the art finished in one go so as to save money and time. Maybe nobody knew what Morcar looked like beforehand, and it was left to the artists to decide. The Marvel art seems to support this lack of information, as the face is left unrevealed. The Merlin art went the other way and modeled him on previous art from the game screen.


Fascinating. I still contend that its most logical for a player to assume that the evil looking Santa Claus in the Dracula cape depicted on the Game Screen (appearing to command the monsters toward the player) is, and always was Zargon (Morcar). Most of us never had access to this sticker album or read the Marvel comic special. If that was intended to be MENTOR, that's an awfully big failure of communication, akin to swapping Obi-Wan Kenobi and Darth Vader.

Another place where there is "Confusion" is in the official PC game adaptation, where Mentor appears like a skinny wizard guy with purplish skin (may just be the lightning). So I don't see any consistency at this point, and even if Stephen Baker were to come out tomorrow and say "the face on the game screen is Mentor" (as he certainly could, they've already assigned "Mentor" to the Zargon "hero wizard" figure in the remake) I would politely ignore it.

Had I never been exposed to this forum, it never would have occurred to me to think anyone would have thought otherwise. But I'm generous enough with this highly expandable game, that if you grew up thinking it was Mentor, go right ahead thinking that, if you want! And who knows, maybe at that age and style, they look pretty much like brothers anyway. And you may get a lump of Chaos in your stocking this year...


lestodante wrote:For me he's Mentor with no doubt, he's on the hero cards, in a frame. In Marvel Winter special he is Mentor too.
The pic on the screen represents Mentor reading Loretome and announcing the evil forces of Chaos attacking (he's seeing it through the Loretome pages).
Also the Evil Wizard Player acts as both Morcar (for moving the monsters miniatures) and Mentor (guiding the players and reading Mentor's speech before each quest); so this is also why the screen is half good (top part with Mentor) and half evil (lower part with the monsters).


David Gallagher the artist whose painting was used for the original HeroQuest Game Screen has confirmed it is Mentor depicted and not Morcar according to the GW instructions he was given. But clearly quite a few people have mistakenly thought the reverse, including apparently the illustrator for the sticker album, creating quite the confusion for some folks over the years.
Image

On the HeroQuest Wall Chart (poster) the evil sorcerer (warlock) skeleton figure is labelled Morcar, showing the prototype lead miniatures, not the final plastic versions actually used in the game.
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Morcar was even given a metal miniature based on the marvel version.
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Between those two versions of Morcar, it is a wonder Mattel didn't sue for Skeletor Masters of the Universe copyright infringement. Skeleton face on muscular body, cross bones on chest, hood, horned ovid or caprid skull on staff, Pteruges leather skirt, blue skin, etc.

SO YES, UNEQIVOCALLY THE RED CAPED WIZARD ON THE GAME SCREEN IS AND HAS ALWAYS BEEN MENTOR, BASED ON MULTIPLE GW SOURCES.

David Gallagher also painted The Minions of Morcar painting for Games Workshop (the image used on the back of Kellar's Keep Quest pack original Europe version) which really was just an edited version of the original Warhammer Evil fantasy races 3rd edition painting but had certain Warhammer monsters edited out (probably because they weren't included in the HQ game just yet but was probably the painting from which most of the HQ game figures were preliminarily designed, many with that exact equipment and attire.) HQ KK version has a Fimir, a Skeleton, an Orc, a Chaos Warrior, a Goblin, and a Snotling which couldn't be edited out as it was in front of the Chaos Warrior. Strangely the zombie was edited out of the Kellar's Keep HQ version of the painting even though zombies were included in the base game and ROTWL carrying that exact medieval meat cleaver weapon!!! Ogres although also edited out did make an HQ appearance later in two separate expansions before HQ was ended. Zoats, Beastmen, Skaven, and Dark Elves also got edited out for those of you unfamiliar with the 3rd edition Warhammer races depicted.
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The HeroQuest Gargoyle didn't make the 3rd edition Warhammer races painting because that actually is a depiction of a Greater Demon called a BloodThirster of Khorne, not a gargoyle in Warhammer. Cool that they made a statue of a blood thirster.
Furthermore, all of these Chaos races (3rd edition) painted by Gallagher were used in Milton Bradley/Games Workshop Battlemasters board game except the Minotaur which wouldn't see a plastic board game mini based on the painting until Warhammer Quest and Talisman (3rd edition)
Image
The Ogre painted in the other D. G. painting became the Ogre Champion of BattleMasters, the Chaos thugs became Chaos Archers, etc.
By Crom I'll split you crown to crotch to see if your guts are yellow as I think they are nithing BARBARIAN Ulrich
The last music you shall ever hear will be my bowstring as your forehead sprouts a feathered shaft, pity ELF Cael Darkhollow
Tomes grimoires manuals atlas formularies compendiums codexes bestiaries folios scrolls... Am I missing anything before we leave? WIZARD Eldritch Heironymous KigamMagister
Some quick axe work an' we can count the coins and gems DWARF Wulfram Magnussen
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Re: Warhammer World Campaign Setting and Lore

Postby lestodante » Sunday December 4th, 2022 12:05pm

Cael Darkhollow wrote:David Gallagher the artist whose painting was used for the original HeroQuest Game Screen has confirmed it is Mentor depicted and not Morcar according to the GW instructions he was given. But clearly quite a few people have mistakenly thought the reverse, including apparently the illustrator for the sticker album, creating quite the confusion for some folks over the years.

As if we needed confirmation... why should he be on character's cards then? It's just certain people like to overcomplicate things and distort simple things. :mrgreen:
Another fact is in one of the sticker the wizard is wearing Borin's Armor... On the Eur artifact cards it is not specified they can't be used by Wizard as in the US version. I think original intention from MB was to make them available to the Wizard too.

Cael Darkhollow wrote:Between those two versions of Morcar, it is a wonder Mattel didn't sue for Skeletor Masters of the Universe copyright infringement. Skeleton face on muscular body, cross bones on chest, hood, horned ovid or caprid skull on staff, Pteruges leather skirt, blue skin, etc.


Since you also mentioned MATTEL, I want to ask, how many of you guys know The Great Black Wizard from MOTU universe? He looks very familiar...
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Re: Sticker album

Postby Kurgan » Sunday December 4th, 2022 3:19pm

Those guys look familiar as well. I haven't followed Masters of the Universe since the 80's (I know there were several revivals along the way to the present). Back then it was King Hiss, Tonguelashor and Ratlore that constituted the "Snake Men" and then we had "Cobra Khan" who had the press down "venom mist" gimmick in his head with water who was part of the earlier figure line. Those were the days. It didn't matter that most of the guys were kit bashes of each other, they were cool and popular for boys of a certain age (they got the girls with She-Ra).

I haven't checked any of the newer toys I see they have more articulation points (bad for little boys who want to pound their toys together like there's no tomorrow) but I wonder if they still have the torso spring action thing... that was the best. Just a little memory there.


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Re: Sticker album

Postby Markus Darwath » Sunday December 4th, 2022 7:08pm

From where comes the Zargon screen with the map symbol guide? I have not seen that before.
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Re: Sticker album

Postby HispaZargon » Sunday December 4th, 2022 10:40pm

Markus Darwath wrote:From where comes the Zargon screen with the map symbol guide? I have not seen that before.

Maybe you are refering to the original non-American versions of the game, which included in the back of the Evil Wizard Screen (not Zargon) the catalogue of map symbols for furniture and traps.


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Re: Sticker album

Postby Markus Darwath » Monday December 5th, 2022 1:32am

HispaZargon wrote:
Markus Darwath wrote:From where comes the Zargon screen with the map symbol guide? I have not seen that before.

Maybe you are refering to the original non-American versions of the game, which included in the back of the Evil Wizard Screen (not Zargon) the catalogue of map symbols for furniture and traps.


Yes, I was referring to Cael Darkhollow's rather comprehensive picture post. One of the images shows multiple gamemaster screens, one of which has pictures of the furniture and tiles along with the map symbols for those items. I hadn't seen one of those before and wondered which version of the game it came from. At first I thought maybe it was an extra with the Epic tier remake, but realized the pictures were of original version furniture. So now I wonder which language/country releases that came with, because it wasn't part of the North American release. And would the flip-side of that screen be the monster table and such with no grandiose artwork, or were there two screens in that set with art on the hero side and the info screens on the gamemaster side?
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Re: Sticker album

Postby Kurgan » Monday December 5th, 2022 1:41am

Yeah HeroQuest's GM screen back changed from EU to NA. The old information was transferred to the left side of the Armory board (the original one, this stuff usually gets cropped off when you see scans of it online) from the 1990 NA edition... and the new GM screen back focuses on the monsters, traps and turn mechanics rather than furniture identification. Much more efficient focus I think.

There was a stronger emphasis on painting the miniatures in the EU editions and more commercials for GamesWorkshop. I had never even heard of Warhammer until a decade later when I was at university (by then it was all 40K and seemed like a big expensive niche hobby so I wasn't interested).

But yeah, as a kid in the US when HeroQuest came out, I didn't know what Warhammer was. I barely knew what "GamesWorkshop" was (the people who designed the figures!). We didn't get all these other materials, so even without the Sticker Album, it seemed obvious that the stern looking wizard commanding the monsters on the GM screen used by the Zargon player, was Zargon. It was also shocking to hear that Sir Ragnar was executed as a traitor, which again, was deleted from the expansions we got. We didn't know who "Morcar" was, much less that he had some Wizards! It's a wonderful thing these past two decades finding out about all this stuff, and I'm happy and blessed to know that Grimdead was terrorizing Neef Island this whole time as well.

That leaves a strong impression on a kid, even if all along it was not what the designers intended. I don't mind if those ideas blatantly contradict now. It's like finding out there was another version of Star Wars out there where Darth Vader really did murder Luke's father, and Leia wasn't his sister, just his girlfriend, and that was the one somebody else grew up loving.


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Re: Sticker album

Postby Cael Darkhollow » Monday December 5th, 2022 1:49am

Markus Darwath wrote:
HispaZargon wrote:
Markus Darwath wrote:From where comes the Zargon screen with the map symbol guide? I have not seen that before.

Maybe you are refering to the original non-American versions of the game, which included in the back of the Evil Wizard Screen (not Zargon) the catalogue of map symbols for furniture and traps.


Yes, I was referring to Cael Darkhollow's rather comprehensive picture post. One of the images shows multiple gamemaster screens, one of which has pictures of the furniture and tiles along with the map symbols for those items. I hadn't seen one of those before and wondered which version of the game it came from. At first I thought maybe it was an extra with the Epic tier remake, but realized the pictures were of original version furniture. So now I wonder which language/country releases that came with, because it wasn't part of the North American release. And would the flip-side of that screen be the monster table and such with no grandiose artwork, or were there two screens in that set with art on the hero side and the info screens on the gamemaster side?


See this post for a complete photo comparison between the Europe original version, the North American version, and the new Hasbro remake. I did comparison photos of all of it. There are numerous differences between the releases.
http://forum.yeoldeinn.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=5832

See this post for photo comparisons of the Kellar's Keep expansion pack versions European, North American, and Hasbro remake
http://forum.yeoldeinn.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=5827

See this post for photo comparisons of the Return of the Witch Lord expansion pack versions European, North American, and Hasbro remake
http://forum.yeoldeinn.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=5830

I suppose I need to start working on a comparison of the Frozen Horror Barbarian Quest Pack versions, the Adventure design kit versions, and The Mage of the Magic Mirror Elf Quest Pack when I get the new remake of that one.

So far I still have a complete HeroQuest collection of all of the game releases to date including all the old stuff, and the new remake stuff with Mythic tier, Frozen Horror, Commander of the Guardian Knights, HeroQuest card game, the adventure design kit and the Rogue Heir of Elethorn. Out-dated picture but here is some of my vintage collection:
Image
Image
I suppose I need to take some new photos of the remake stuff now too.
I am still missing the HeroQuest wall chart poster, one of the puzzles, a few different versions of the video games, some of the prototype miniatures, and all of the foreign language versions. Someday perhaps.
Last edited by Cael Darkhollow on Monday December 5th, 2022 2:05am, edited 1 time in total.
By Crom I'll split you crown to crotch to see if your guts are yellow as I think they are nithing BARBARIAN Ulrich
The last music you shall ever hear will be my bowstring as your forehead sprouts a feathered shaft, pity ELF Cael Darkhollow
Tomes grimoires manuals atlas formularies compendiums codexes bestiaries folios scrolls... Am I missing anything before we leave? WIZARD Eldritch Heironymous KigamMagister
Some quick axe work an' we can count the coins and gems DWARF Wulfram Magnussen
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Re: Sticker album

Postby Kurgan » Monday December 5th, 2022 1:53am

Not to brag ("flex" the kids have been calling it a few years ago) but I'm now a proud owner of the 1989 first edition, alongside "my" American HeroQuest from 1990 and the remake edition. If I could find and afford the Japanese edition, would I get it even though I can't read the language? It's tempting, just like I'd tempted to own the German version of Space Crusade (StarQuest) just because I love these variations of the lore. To somebody growing up, this was the game for them! HeroQuest "canon" (if we can even try to use that term) is a funny thing...

But yeah kids in the UK had access to all this other lore we didn't, then again like with so many other things (like big franchise movies intended for a general audience), if you need all these ancillary supplements to make really sense of it, somebody goofed up. But even something as simple as putting the "old guy with the book" icon on each character board gave you much more of a sense that he was on your side rather than the big baddy. I can see making the bad guy more of a mystery could lend to more of a role play thing, but we had no problem having "official" illustrations of the other characters and still having our imaginations. Just an odd design choice. I mean they had to create the artwork and then somebody had to decide how to use it. As pointed out above a lot of the stuff was assembled from pre-existing stock images from the Warhammer library so to speak. Seeing the "unedited" images above is another thing I love about these forums. Not being a Warhammer aficionado I probably never would have known that! |_P


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Re: Sticker album

Postby Cael Darkhollow » Monday December 5th, 2022 2:29am

Kurgan wrote:We didn't get all these other materials, so even without the Sticker Album, it seemed obvious that the stern looking wizard commanding the monsters on the GM screen used by the Zargon player, was Zargon. It was also shocking to hear that Sir Ragnar was executed as a traitor, which again, was deleted from the expansions we got. We didn't know who "Morcar" was, much less that he had some Wizards! It's a wonderful thing these past two decades finding out about all this stuff.

I frequented the hobby game shops as a long time D&D player, so as a teenager, immediately scooped up the NA HeroQuest, and both original expansions KK and ROTWL. While searching for more HeroQuest (obviously I was hooked!) I ended up buying a plastic skeleton Army box for Warhammer. I loved it, it was like HeroQuest but you could put it together in whatever poses and weapons I chose. Very different from the static posed game pieces or metal D&D miniatures I was used to at the time. That was my introduction to Warhammer and other Games Workshop products. Later I picked up the HQ Barbarian and Elf Quest packs, BattleMasters and all three Advanced HeroQuest products at the game shop. By the late 90's there was no more HeroQuest to collect (or so I thought) so I switched to Warhammer and Warhammer 40K for a long time.

It wasn't until decades later and the magic of the internet and Ebay that I learned of the different HeroQuest and BattleMasters boxes and expansions in Europe. I quickly added those to my collection. While searching for parts lists for those to ensure completeness, I stumbled on this forum and learned the true extent of the HeroQuest product line with Magazines, puzzles, etc. and began collecting everything else in earnest. I have been playing and collecting HeroQuest now for 31 years and largely thanks to this site, I still am.

As a twin, I had no problem with the seeming dual nature of the Game Master player being both Zargon controlling the evil forces, and Mentor guiding the Heroes played by other players. I kinda sorta saw the game screen as a representation of both but mainly viewed him as Mentor seeing through LoreTome. I didn't hear the name Morcar or see any versions of that character until decades later. we didn't know the Chaos Warlock figure was the Chaos Sorcerer Morcar. I suppose it would have been possible for a North American HQ player to learn about the Europe HQ differences and productst if they had the White Dwarf HQ magazines which I did not at the time. Most NA players never knew anything other than what came in the game boxes that's for certain. I still don't know anything about Grimdead as I do not own the Japanese version. Indeed it is a wonderful thing learning the complete story of HeroQuest.
By Crom I'll split you crown to crotch to see if your guts are yellow as I think they are nithing BARBARIAN Ulrich
The last music you shall ever hear will be my bowstring as your forehead sprouts a feathered shaft, pity ELF Cael Darkhollow
Tomes grimoires manuals atlas formularies compendiums codexes bestiaries folios scrolls... Am I missing anything before we leave? WIZARD Eldritch Heironymous KigamMagister
Some quick axe work an' we can count the coins and gems DWARF Wulfram Magnussen
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