Thoughts and Prayers for France

[yellowmosquito]

The Quaran and Hadith are quite clear in calling muslims to kill blasphemers and apostates. It is in the holy texts, and part of the religion.

The bible has them beat hands down. It's not a book of love as so often claimed, it's a book of utter hatred from a disgusting religion.
....
And so on.

I don't disagree. It was not my intention to singularly target any one faith. But what should we really expect from books written so long ago by a much more brutal society? How could it have been any different?

I think the question we really should be asking is "Why do we put those books up on such a pedestal?" I think anyone who has ever read them (religious or non-religious) realizes that doing this is a bit of a mistake. This is why leaders "pick and choose", because some parts really could use a bit of redaction to keep up with the times. (Should anyone be offended by this, simply investigate and you will find that that religions books are quite often adjusted by religious leaders behind the scenes before they hit "critical mass".)

Wouldn't the world be a better place if we could look at the cruel parts of these books and collectively admit that those sections don't belong? If these texts weren't "written by prophets influenced by god", we would have no problem admitting the flaws within. I think the real problem exists within ourselves, and our inability to admit that parts in those books is just plain barbaric and cruel.

On the flip side, if they truly were divinely inspired and come directly from the mind of god as claimed, well, then we have a much larger problem, don't we?

[Gold Bearer]

I think it's important to remember that Christians are responsible for far more pain, suffering and death than all the other religions combined. Islam has a very long way to go to catch up.

The bible has been edited and messed about with so much that I doubt there's much of the original left. Just one more reason why it shouldn't be taken literally. It's actually quite interesting if it's taken in it's true context of a book of mythology, it's got some good stories. It's only a book of pure evil if it's used as guide to live your life by.

Buddhism is a peaceful religion, it's not a coincidence that it doesn't include the worship of a supreme spaghetti monster type being.

Edit:
Ooh, I'm an archmege.

[Count Mohawk]

But what should we really expect from books written so long ago by a much more brutal society? How could it have been any different?

Thanks for mentioning that. The circumstances of society in which the books were originally written are often forgotten when people debate their and their religions' worth. It would be an equivalent mistake to throw the entire text out just because parts of it no longer reflect "best practices" as discovered by society in the many centuries that have passed since then, such as the recognition of equality of men and women and the abolition of slavery.

To expand on what The Count said: democracy is a big freakin' lie.

The Founding Fathers knew this sort of thing could happen even back when they first drafted the Constitution. When special interests can purchase politicians wholesale, what room does that leave the common citizen?

I think the problem is that we have not collectively advanced as a species far enough to escape the allures of power, hatred and war. We've made progressively better tries at it, but none of them ever seem to last. And it's not going to get any better until the people who crave money and power above all else learn to place proper value on the lives and opinions of the common men. If teaching people to act like generally decent human beings to each other isn't part of the reason religion exists, I will eat my sunglasses.

OH MAN - drathe might want to lock this thread before it gets out of hand.
Lock it and block it and throw away the key.

This would probably be for the best. Although this thread has remained civil, there's a reason why "Religion" is on the list of topics "known to cause friction among passionate members" at the top of the page. For anyone who likes to debate this sort of thing, may I suggest the site Fratching.com?

[Gold Bearer]

A more progressed society doesn't absolve a supposed deity of ordering the execution of men, women, children and babies simply for having opposing beliefs, if you take the word of the bible literally. Those aren't presented as the orders of the followers of Christ, they're presented as the commands of 'god'. If you don't take the word of the bible literally then it doesn't make any sense to take the 'miracles' literally either.

[Sjeng]

Well, to be honest, so far the discussion has been very friendly, but as we've been here before with nasty results, and drathe having asked us to keep this community free of drugs/religion/science debates, I'm locking this anyway. The topic is old in any case. No point to resurrect it now.