The nature of the Cabiri Lords?

[herman_the_german]

According to the art the Cabiri Lords are the four Wizards of Morcar, which doesn't really make sense, other than GW or MB did not want to commission new, additional art.

"...Tall men in long silk robes with lead-coloured skin and yellow eyes... ...a sorcerously powerful race descended from a union between men and sea-nymphs..."

But according from their text description they seem not at all what is pictured on the cover and instead to be some sort of Sea Elves or Sea Elf/Human hybrid - maybe something like Seaguard Elf Mages?

Can't really figure out the origin of the root word 'Cabiri' or what it could possibly mean other than it sounds vaguely Italian (as in Nights of Cabiria.)

[sajungzak]

Had some fun learning about cabiri on Google trying to figure this out. Google "cabiri lords". First you get some stuff about them being used in d&d, but it goes back much farther, possibly pre Greek mythology. The gods cabiri refers to are inherently mysterious as well as their identities being a mystery, obscured by history. There are many explanations, some more of which I am about to explore.
Thank you for igniting my curiosity!

Edit* also spelled cabeiri or kabeiri
Interestingly, there seems to be a connection between the Phoenician cabiri (possibly later fitting in Greek mythology with different names) and Irish celtic cabiri.

Here is a particularly interesting definition I found on seadict.com

Kabiri, Kabeiri, Kabeiroi, Kabarim, Kabirim, Kabiria (Greek) Cabiri (Latin)
Plural name of certain very mysterious divinities, revered in nearly all the countries of the Near East. They were worshiped as divinities in Samothrace and on Lemnos (the island sacred to Vulcan) and were popularly represented as cosmic dwarves, the sons of Vulcan (Hephaestos), and masters of the art of working metals.

Kabiri was a generic title: as the mighty they were of both sexes, gods and mortals, terrestrial, celestial, and kosmic. Blavatsky describes the kabiri as the seven divine titans identical with the seven rishis saved from the flood by Vaivasvta-Manu (SD 2:142). The "mighty men of renown" (gibborim) who date from the days of the earliest Atlantean subraces while yet Lemuria had not wholly disappeared -- became in the fifth root-race the teachers whom the Egyptians and Phoenicians called kabiri, the Greeks titans, and the Hindus rakshasas and daityas.

In short, the kabeiroi, identical with the kumaras and rudras, classed with the dhyani-buddhas and with the 'elohim of Jewish theology, directing "the mind with which they endued men" to the arts and sciences that build civilization, and closely linked with solar and earthly fires, are no other than the kumara-agnishvatta-manasaputras of theosophy: kumaras in their unsoiled divinity; agnisvattas (those who have tasted the fire) or solar lhas; and manasaputras (sons of mind) who in pity took upon themselves the heavy cross of incarnation that they might help struggling humanity to come up higher.

So... the answer is, "aliens".

[Anderas]

Except if we are descendents of a spacefaring people who crashed on earth. Then they are our last seven androids who lasted some thousand years after the crash to help us back into civilization.

Sad the didn't last until today, we could need their help to get out of our cul-de-sac.

Even if you would realize that I am the last of them, I can't convince anybody to listen to my ideas!

[cynthialee]

Had some fun learning about cabiri on Google trying to figure this out. Google "cabiri lords". First you get some stuff about them being used in d&d, but it goes back much farther, possibly pre Greek mythology. The gods cabiri refers to are inherently mysterious as well as their identities being a mystery, obscured by history. There are many explanations, some more of which I am about to explore.
Thank you for igniting my curiosity!

Edit* also spelled cabeiri or kabeiri
Interestingly, there seems to be a connection between the Phoenician cabiri (possibly later fitting in Greek mythology with different names) and Irish celtic cabiri.

Here is a particularly interesting definition I found on seadict.com

Kabiri, Kabeiri, Kabeiroi, Kabarim, Kabirim, Kabiria (Greek) Cabiri (Latin)
Plural name of certain very mysterious divinities, revered in nearly all the countries of the Near East. They were worshiped as divinities in Samothrace and on Lemnos (the island sacred to Vulcan) and were popularly represented as cosmic dwarves, the sons of Vulcan (Hephaestos), and masters of the art of working metals.

Kabiri was a generic title: as the mighty they were of both sexes, gods and mortals, terrestrial, celestial, and kosmic. Blavatsky describes the kabiri as the seven divine titans identical with the seven rishis saved from the flood by Vaivasvta-Manu (SD 2:142). The "mighty men of renown" (gibborim) who date from the days of the earliest Atlantean subraces while yet Lemuria had not wholly disappeared -- became in the fifth root-race the teachers whom the Egyptians and Phoenicians called kabiri, the Greeks titans, and the Hindus rakshasas and daityas.

In short, the kabeiroi, identical with the kumaras and rudras, classed with the dhyani-buddhas and with the 'elohim of Jewish theology, directing "the mind with which they endued men" to the arts and sciences that build civilization, and closely linked with solar and earthly fires, are no other than the kumara-agnishvatta-manasaputras of theosophy: kumaras in their unsoiled divinity; agnisvattas (those who have tasted the fire) or solar lhas; and manasaputras (sons of mind) who in pity took upon themselves the heavy cross of incarnation that they might help struggling humanity to come up higher.

So... the answer is, "aliens".

Nephilim is what I was thinking when I read all that.

[knightkrawler]

I do like sajungzak's alien approach. In conjuncture with the race's description it really resonates with me and gives me some ideas where to build the quest setting into my world.
As a sidenote, of course the inhabitants of the HQ world (a sidestring reality of Warhammer's Old World, I'll say it again) do not know that the Cabiri are aliens as in, come from another planet. They are merely mysterious, keeping to themselves... I know the Warhammer lore only superficially, but maybe the Cabiri might be the Old Ones?
Or, come to think of it, lead-colored skin and yellow eyes sounds like ... dun-dun-duuuuuun... Tau. Although, IINM, they were conceived only in the late 1990s.

[herman_the_german]

Thanks.

Didn't think of switching C to K. So Greek, not Italian:

"From http://www.theoi.com - July 1, 2014 1:48 PM

In Greek folklore, the Kabeiroi are twin gods or daimones who presided over the orgiastic dances of the mysteries of Samothrake which were performed in honour of the goddesses Demeter, Persephone, and Hekate.

These enigmatic chthonic beings are also famed metal-workers, dwarf-like sons of the god Hephaistos, who served their father at his Lemnian forge.

The accounts of the Samothracian gods, whose names were secret, vary in the number and sexes of the gods, usually between two and four, some of either sex. However, the number of Cabeiri also varied, with some accounts citing four (often a pair of males and a pair of females) of them, and some even more, such as a tribe or whole race of Cabeiri, often presented as all male.
http://bit.ly/1mQbhPJ

Like their mother Kabeiro, the pair were also sea-divinities, who protected and came to the aid of sailors in distress.

According to Clement the Kabeiroi were three in number, but two of the brothers committed an act of fratricide. The pair later recovered the phallus of Zagreus who had been dismembered by the Titan-gods and established it in the shrine of the Mysteries.

In the Cabiri by Aeschylus, the two gods welcomed the Argonauts to their island and initiated them in a drunken orgy...

The Kabeiroi were closely identified with a number of other korybantic daimones including the Cretan Kouretes, the Trojan Daktyloi, and the Phrygian Kyrbantes.

According to some the Samothrakain Kabeiroi included not only the sons of Hephaistos, but also the Korybantic sons of the god Apollon..."

There's even an image - which is what ultimately I was looking for:



The image is apparently inspired by a biblical reference in which the body of many of the Cabiri became one.

But the thing is, in Heroquest it would not necessarily have to be the original Cabiri, it could simply be wizards related to or descendants of the Cabiri.

[sajungzak]

Nephilim is what I was thinking when I read all that.

I was thinking of Melchizedek, or perhaps Merlin. I also like the association of lead colored skin to the "greys".

[Anderas]

I liked more the immensely old alien story. It would connect all my hobbies, and in addition all my favorite Sci fi and fantasy books with a very simple turn in the storyline.

Plus it has the advantage of being a cross-cultural eye-witness report, and that makes it quite believable, if you want.

[herman_the_german]

It seems the internet has finally caught up, I assume based on my original query. Cabiri, exactly as spelled in the Heroquest expansion is positively identified in this vintage volume:

https://books.google.com/books?id=Zi4ef ... 3F&f=false



A whole book's worth, if anyone is interested.

The issue is quite complex, are Cabiri related to Ceres, Proserpine, Pluto & Hermes? Are they Sons of Gods? Are they an inferior order of gods? Are they mysterious demons whose mystery cults were connected to that of Hephaestus? Are they practitioners of an ancient, mystery religion? Where they Magi Priests who were masters of magic, alchemy of plants, and archery? Are they Irish Druids? Are their names Axierus, Axiocersa, Axiocersus & Cadmilus?

The mystery only increases...

[Daedalus]

Except if we are descendents of a spacefaring people who crashed on earth. Then they are our last seven androids who lasted some thousand years after the crash to help us back into civilization.

Sad the didn't last until today, we could need their help to get out of our cul-de-sac.

Even if you would realize that I am the last of them, I can't convince anybody to listen to my ideas!

You need to watch he 2004 Battleztar Galactica, if you haven't already. This is not all that we are.