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[Quest Pack][WIP] Conquering Despair

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Re: [Quest Pack][WIP] Conquering Despair

Postby Teldurn » April 10th, 2015, 5:35 pm

Daedalus wrote:Quest 10
Large creatures (Elementals and Ogres) move at half speed if moving through tight spaces. > Large creatures (Elementals and Ogres) move at half speed if moving through a space that is only one square wide.

Elementalists’ spells can either be half as effective against same-type Elementals or twice as effective against opposing-type Elementals ( Air/Earth, Fire/Water.)
I'm not sure how far in advance you're prewriting these, but I had changed this line earlier, possibly even yesterday. I realized that in the rulebook, Elementals are noted to be immune to same-type spells. So I changed the quest text to omit the half effective bit and only kept the twice-as-effective for opposing-type.

A. ...the Ring of Return. Its use is explained on the matching Artifact Card.

B. It took standing on fire squares in this circular room to make me wonder, "What is the Hero movement restriction for a square patially filled with a rock wall?" I think it could work similar to the greenery clarification, but need only restrict movement. (Since irregular rock walls extend upward, normal LOS rules using an imaginary line is already sufficient to determine whether a partial rock wall blocks visibility to a target.)

A few other Quests also have these partially filled rock-wall squares, so I think a newly titled note under 5.Manueuvering Outdoors and in Caverns should state that Any rock wall that takes up more than half of a square blocks movement.
Instead of adding an extra (mostly repetitive) line or two, which will make the flowchart graphic spill to the next page, how about, "Unless otherwise specified, any rock wall that takes up more than half a square blocks movement, and greenery in this way blocks line of sight and movement." ?

C. The apparent exit to the northern edge of the board makes entering this room an ambiguous choice. While the gold-strewn floor is a really cool trap idea, losing equipment and artifacts might result in whining. Maybe I'm too soft, but I'd consider including a warning of some sort. A Welcome to the Lair of Greed inscription and/or early sighting of the bones might work. Softie! :mrgreen:
Best case scenario, the same Hero who found the Ring of Return would also be the one stuck in the Lair and would use the Ring to escape. (Or, alternatively, has the Kool-Aid Man spell, "Pass Through Rock"). But no, actually, an inscription would work much better.


D. Does "All ranged attacks and spells within the marked circle have a 50% chance of missing," mean all ranged attacks and all spells (Veil of Mist might fail if cast on anyone within the zone) or all ranged attacks and ranged spells (Veil of Mist always works on the caster, though it might fail if cast onto another Hero in the zone)? Or do you mean all ranged attacks and attack spells (Veil of Mist won't fail on anyone in the zone as it isn't cast against a monster)? "...rolling a Skull on one Combat Die means the attack missed" leads me to think the last interpretation is intended. Whatever the intent, wording the effect with the appropriate blue term would strengthen the meaning, I feel.
I meant it to only apply to attacks directed at the Elemental, better wording coming right up.

F. "The rubble makes for difficult footing, all movement costs double." Personally, I'm not a fan of movement cost, though HQP uses it for furniture and maybe it should stay. My real beef is it is so similar in effect to area H.

H. Movement is reduced by one die in this chamber, down to a minimum of 1. For greater differentiation from room F, consider changing the effect in either room to a lessened form of slippery ice from the BQP:

    Whenever a Hero moves onto a slippery water square, the Hero must roll 1 combat die. If a white shield is rolled, the Hero falls and his turn ends.
Yes, I had such a hard time coming up with a thematic environmental obstacle that was also different enough from the others and still remain interesting by itself. I really like this sliding one a lot!
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Re: [Quest Pack][WIP] Conquering Despair

Postby Daedalus » April 16th, 2015, 1:10 am

Teldurn wrote:Instead of adding an extra (mostly repetitive) line or two, which will make the flowchart graphic spill to the next page, how about, "Unless otherwise specified, any rock wall that takes up more than half a square blocks movement, and greenery in this way blocks line of sight and movement." ?

Less is more--works for me. Now on to more is more:

Quest 11
OK, this is a big entry and I got it after a reread because of its size--no big deal really. Your players are in for a treat. I worked up suggestions ordered somewhat differently for flow if you're interested. I looked to Quests 6 and 7 of RotWL for how to use multiple note labels in a room. I'd completely understand if you ignored most if not all of these structure changes to keep the project in line with your vision and word count.

    A. [change location letters D to A, A to B, B to C, and C to D, initial text is from original A,B,C,D] Alternative text:
    The eastern half of this room contains a large pool of water at "A." The Gelatinous Cube hidden within can't be seen until after the water is transfered to area "G." When drained, a Hero may voluntarily fall into or climb out of this reservoir using the rules for a pit trap. The western half of this room features a set of switches which are each activated by a special action. They work as follows: The switch at the space marked "B" transfers water to the empty reservoir at "G" if the pool at "A" is already filled. The switch at the space marked "C" is a trap that can't be found or removed. Whoever activates it suffers 1 Body Point of electrical damage. The switch at the space marked "D" moves water back to the reservoir at "A" if the pool at "G" is already filled. The floor switch at the space marked "A" cannot be accessed while that pool is flooded. When it is pressed, a low grinding noise from the pool at "G" can be heard as a treasure chest rises into the water.

    E. [original H] I'd tell the players they may safely search the room as the Zombie is caged. Searching for secret doors reveals the pressure plate. The rest stays the same.

    F. [same as original K]

    G. [ XX area from original text of A,B,C,D] Alternative text:
    The northern half of this room is a reservoir for any water transfered from the pool at "A." While drained, a Hero may voluntarily fall into or climb out of this area using the rules for a pit trap. The chest at the space marked "G" contains 300 gold coins, but starts hidden under the floor and can't be found with a search for treasure. It rises into the flooded pool with a grinding of stone after the floor switch at "A" is activated. However, it may be accessed only after this pool is drained from the switch at "D."

    H. [add this location letter to the corridor connecting areas A to G, initial text is from original A,B,C,D] Alternative text:
    These two doors are inlaid with glass panels to allow a Hero to see into the room beyond. Tell any Hero that searches for traps that either door may also be closed. If one of the doors is left open when a flooding switch is activated at "B" or "D," any Heroes in this corridor suffer 1 Body Point of drowning damage per turn. Activating either switch after closing the doors will drain this corridor.

    I. [original I] Since this trap is about limiting movement, why not drop the part about a Hero climbing a block? Also, couldn't a block only be pushed to further the challenge and make it seem more "real"? Finally, the thin north and south walls are partially obscured by blocks, which might confuse things with the shallow depression. Is it possible to bring the walls into the foreground, or is this technically infeasible?

    J. [original G] I guess the chest is simply placed when the room is entered (or when it is shown by the lighting) as it appears to be part of the room. For board gaming, it might help to mention that it is placed when a Hero enters area "G" (southern pool) or "F" (original "K".)

    K. [same as original F]

    L. [same as original E]

    M. [original L] Does the boulder ever come to a stop? If so, how about at the end of an incline just before the cubby? I think it should be stated that If the boulder passes over any Heroes' spaces, they are knocked into the pit below and suffer 1 Body Point of damage. Heroes instead suffer 2 Body Points of damage if they fall into an adjacent spike square.

    N. [add this location letter to both levels of both pits, initial text is from original M,N,O] Alternative text:
    These rooms are each made up of a large pit and surrounding ledges. The Skeleton Archers are also located on ledges. Heroes or monsters may not fight between an adjacent ledge and these large pits, as they are too deep. The stairs at the corridor between may be used to safely move between levels, though Heroes may instead voluntarily fall into either pit. Any Heroes falling into a pit suffer 1 Body Point of damage. Additionally, a Hero that falls on a spike square instead suffers 2 Body Points of damage. A Hero may attempt to jump an adjacent square with a floor spikes as if it were a trap, but failure results in only 1 Body Point of damage. Moving through a space occupied by the platform chain costs one extra movement.

    O. [add this location letter to the moving platform square of both the upper and lower eastern pits, initial text is from original M,N,O] Alternative text:
    A moving platform operates across this pit via a chain and pulley system. It moves back and forth automatically at the end of each Hero’s turn with a speed of 5. Attempting to jump between the platform and a ledge uses the rules for jumping pit traps.
    As the platform needs to end movement just one square across from a ledge for a Hero to jump on his turn, this room will take a long time to resolve. To speed things up, the platform could instead be moved one square after each player's turn, including Zargon's. The players should then be allowed to choose their order while using the platform so that a Hero could efficiently jump as a ledge is passed. Alternatively, a Hero could be allowed to jump as a ledge is passed on Zargon's turn if he didn't move on his previous turn. Alternatively-alternatively, if a Hero is on the platform or a switch ledge, the platform could be moved on the Hero's turn by Zargon that round so that the Hero may jump on his turn.

    P. [add this location letter to the two switch ledges and the key ledge, initial text is from original M,N,O] Alternative text:
    The two southern ledges each have a wall switch. After both of these switches have been activated, a compartment on the ledge in the top-right corner opens and reveals a large key. This key opens the locked door at R.
    Does activating a switch count as an action or not? If it does, this room will take even longer to resolve if the platform movement isn't revised. Personally, I think it should be stated it counts as an action.

    Q. [same as original P, less some moved text] Alternative text:
    The treasure chest in this area contains 85 gold coins and a Crossbow.

    R. [same location as original O, initial text is from original M,N,O] Alternative text:
    This stone door has a very large face embossed on it with an open mouth. The door is locked and can only be opened with the key found at P.
    I'd add some text about the door being locked to be read to the players. Who or what's face is on the door? This looks like an opportunity to inject even more dungeon atmosphere, in my opinion. :skeleton:

    S. [same as original J]
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Re: [Quest Pack][WIP] Conquering Despair

Postby Teldurn » April 16th, 2015, 5:30 pm

Daedalus wrote:
Teldurn wrote:Instead of adding an extra (mostly repetitive) line or two, which will make the flowchart graphic spill to the next page, how about, "Unless otherwise specified, any rock wall that takes up more than half a square blocks movement, and greenery in this way blocks line of sight and movement." ?

Less is more--works for me. Now on to more is more:

Quest 11
OK, this is a big entry and I got it after a reread because of its size--no big deal really. Your players are in for a treat. You can see why this is my favorite quest so far! I think it really pushes the envelope of what is possible to achieve within the HeroQuest framework. Which, realistically, is the whole goal of HQP in its entirety. :D I worked up suggestions ordered somewhat differently for flow if you're interested. I looked to Quests 6 and 7 of RotWL for how to use multiple note labels in a room. I'd completely understand if you ignored most if not all of these structure changes to keep the project in line with your vision and word count.

    A. [change location letters D to A, A to B, B to C, and C to D, initial text is from original A,B,C,D] I believe I got the re-lettering correct for the whole thing, in the image attached. Alternative text:
    The eastern half of this room contains a large pool of water at "A." The Gelatinous Cube hidden within can't be seen until after the water is transfered to area "G." When drained, a Hero may voluntarily fall into or climb out of this reservoir using the rules for a pit trap. The western half of this room features a set of switches which are each activated by a special action. They work as follows: The switch at the space marked "B" transfers water to the empty reservoir at "G" if the pool at "A" is already filled. The switch at the space marked "C" is a trap that can't be found or removed. Whoever activates it suffers 1 Body Point of electrical damage. The switch at the space marked "D" moves water back to the reservoir at "A" if the pool at "G" is already filled. The floor switch at the space marked "A" cannot be accessed while that pool is flooded. When it is pressed, a low grinding noise from the pool at "G" can be heard as a treasure chest rises into the water.

    E. [original H] I'd tell the players they may safely search the room as the Zombie is caged. Searching for secret doors reveals the pressure plate. The rest stays the same.

    F. [same as original K]

    G. [ XX area from original text of A,B,C,D] Alternative text:
    The northern half of this room is a reservoir for any water transfered from the pool at "A." While drained, a Hero may voluntarily fall into or climb out of this area using the rules for a pit trap. The chest at the space marked "G" contains 300 gold coins, but starts hidden under the floor and can't be found with a search for treasure. It rises into the flooded pool with a grinding of stone after the floor switch at "A" is activated. However, it may be accessed only after this pool is drained from the switch at "D."

    H. [add this location letter to the corridor connecting areas A to G, initial text is from original A,B,C,D] Alternative text:
    These two doors are inlaid with glass panels to allow a Hero to see into the room beyond. Tell any Hero that searches for traps that either door may also be closed. If one of the doors is left open when a flooding switch is activated at "B" or "D," any Heroes in this corridor suffer 1 Body Point of drowning damage per turn. Activating either switch after closing the doors will drain this corridor.

    I. [original I] Since this trap is about limiting movement, why not drop the part about a Hero climbing a block? Because it's a widely known fact that if you present your players with a problem, SOMEONE will inevitably come up with a completely valid solution that you never thought of. I thought it would still be a very valid solution for a Hero to climb onto the first row of blocks, drop down and then move the block at "I" to open the passageway. Of course, this "solution" kind of side-steps what I wanted them to do, but I also didn't want to penalize a creative Hero for managing to push a square block into a round hole, as it were. :) Also, couldn't a block only be pushed to further the challenge and make it seem more "real"? Finally, the thin north and south walls are partially obscured by blocks, which might confuse things with the shallow depression. Is it possible to bring the walls into the foreground, or is this technically infeasible? This shouldn't present a problem because if anyone is going to print this out to play on tabletop, they will not be printing out this version with all the numbers and dots. They will be printing out the plain version. And since the blocks are supposed to be an interactive overlay, they would be printed out separately and placed on the board and moved around as play progresses. So this is only a problem for the quest book version of the image. Can I fix it with a little photochopping? Sure, but the gist of it is easily there. And I'm lazy. :p

    J. [original G] I guess the chest is simply placed when the room is entered (or when it is shown by the lighting) as it appears to be part of the room. For board gaming, it might help to mention that it is placed when a Hero enters area "G" (southern pool) or "F" (original "K".)

    K. [same as original F]

    L. [same as original E]

    M. [original L] Does the boulder ever come to a stop? Once it's triggered, it does not stop. I suppose it magically resets itself when the Heroes have all left the Quest (or started it again because of a previous TPK). If so, how about at the end of an incline just before the cubby? I think it should be stated that If the boulder passes over any Heroes' spaces, they are knocked into the pit below and suffer 1 Body Point of damage. Heroes instead suffer 2 Body Points of damage if they fall into an adjacent spike square.

    N. [add this location letter to both levels of both pits, initial text is from original M,N,O] Alternative text:
    These rooms are each made up of a large pit and surrounding ledges. The Skeleton Archers are also located on ledges. Heroes or monsters may not fight between an adjacent ledge and these large pits, as they are too deep. The stairs at the corridor between may be used to safely move between levels, though Heroes may instead voluntarily fall into either pit. Any Heroes falling into a pit suffer 1 Body Point of damage. Additionally, a Hero that falls on a spike square instead suffers 2 Body Points of damage. A Hero may attempt to jump an adjacent square with a floor spikes as if it were a trap, but failure results in only 1 Body Point of damage. Moving through a space occupied by the platform chain costs one extra movement.

    O. [add this location letter to the moving platform square of both the upper and lower eastern pits, initial text is from original M,N,O] Alternative text:
    A moving platform operates across this pit via a chain and pulley system. It moves back and forth automatically at the end of each Hero’s turn with a speed of 5. Attempting to jump between the platform and a ledge uses the rules for jumping pit traps.
    As the platform needs to end movement just one square across from a ledge for a Hero to jump on his turn, this room will take a long time to resolve. To speed things up, the platform could instead be moved one square after each player's turn, including Zargon's. The players should then be allowed to choose their order while using the platform so that a Hero could efficiently jump as a ledge is passed. Alternatively, a Hero could be allowed to jump as a ledge is passed on Zargon's turn if he didn't move on his previous turn. Alternatively-alternatively, if a Hero is on the platform or a switch ledge, the platform could be moved on the Hero's turn by Zargon that round so that the Hero may jump on his turn.

    P. [add this location letter to the two switch ledges and the key ledge, initial text is from original M,N,O] Alternative text:
    The two southern ledges each have a wall switch. After both of these switches have been activated, a compartment on the ledge in the top-right corner opens and reveals a large key. This key opens the locked door at R.
    Does activating a switch count as an action or not? If it does, this room will take even longer to resolve if the platform movement isn't revised. Personally, I think it should be stated it counts as an action.

    Q. [same as original P, less some moved text] Alternative text:
    The treasure chest in this area contains 85 gold coins and a Crossbow.

    R. [same location as original O, initial text is from original M,N,O] Alternative text:
    This stone door has a very large face embossed on it with an open mouth. The door is locked and can only be opened with the key found at P.
    I'd add some text about the door being locked to be read to the players. Who or what's face is on the door? This looks like an opportunity to inject even more dungeon atmosphere, in my opinion. :skeleton: In my head, I was thinking the Twisting Catacombs' Living Door.
    Image Image


    S. [same as original J]
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Re: [Quest Pack][WIP] Conquering Despair

Postby Daedalus » April 17th, 2015, 1:14 am

Quest 11
Teldurn wrote:
Daedalus wrote:
    A. [change location letters D to A, A to B, B to C, and C to D, initial text is from original A,B,C,D]
I believe I got the re-lettering correct for the whole thing, in the image attached.

Most everything is spot on. The main change still needed is to swap location letters A and C. If you wanted, location letter N could be included in the western pits (not the ledge) of both the main and lower area. However, I can see how the wording of the entry as it stands isn't ideal for this. How about these changes:

    These rooms are each made up of a large pit and surrounding ledges. The Skeleton Archers to the east are also located on ledges. Heroes or monsters may not fight between an adjacent ledge and these large pits, as they are too deep. The stairs at the corridor between may be used to safely move between levels, though Heroes may instead voluntarily fall into either pit. Any Hero falling into a pit suffers 1 Body Point of damage. Additionally, a Hero that falls on a spike square instead suffers 2 Body Points of damage. A Hero may attempt to jump an adjacent square with a floor spikes as if it were a trap, but failure results in only 1 Body Point of damage. Moving through a space occupied by the platform chain in the eastern pit costs one extra movement.


Teldurn wrote:In my head, I was thinking the Twisting Catacombs' Living Door.

That would be awesome for a board game of Conquering Despair. I hope your gaming platform allows you to share images so you can show them to the players as they encounter the door.


Quest 12
I wonder if players will exploit the lighting effect to minimize monster threat to villagers. Maybe err on the side of caution and reduce the bounty. Also, exiting this Quest with Villagers on the way to the Tower of despair seems strange. I'd make a one-time rescue mission back to the start point and the Emporer's bank the Quest objective.

Interesting re-use of chests. In Quests such as Quest 1 and Quest 12, the chests could be identified by the room letter rather than a red "T". This isn't necessary, but it may clean up the maps a bit. In Quest 12, for example: A chest at the square marked "A" contains an Elixer of Life. Quest 9 would require relabling the two chests with "A" or adding a location letter. Chests found buried in grass as in Quests 3 and 6 would need to swap added location letters for a red "T," however.

On the subject of Quest 6, if you ever convert this all into a boardgame version, I think the large map will cause table space (and printing cost) problems. Each quadrant may need to be played seperately, as with The Dark Company. Or maybe instead the map could be printed smaller with tiny Hero and monster tokens. Otherwise, a smaller map might be made for boardgame play.
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Re: [Quest Pack][WIP] Conquering Despair

Postby Teldurn » April 17th, 2015, 11:13 am

Daedalus wrote:I looked to Quests 6 and 7 of RotWL for how to use multiple note labels in a room.

I forgot to mention that since I don't have any of the expansions, I would not have known that there was a way to handle multiple notes in a room. So I will gladly use your suggestions. The wording is also more concise (which is something I have trouble with sometimes--I'm a verbose *mother hugger*).

Daedalus wrote:Quest 11
Teldurn wrote:
Daedalus wrote:
    A. [change location letters D to A, A to B, B to C, and C to D, initial text is from original A,B,C,D]
I believe I got the re-lettering correct for the whole thing, in the image attached.

Most everything is spot on. The main change still needed is to swap location letters A and C. Okay, got it. I missed it the first time around. If you wanted, location letter N could be included in the western pits (not the ledge) of both the main and lower area. However, I can see how the wording of the entry as it stands isn't ideal for this. How about these changes:

    These rooms are each made up of a large pit and surrounding ledges. The Skeleton Archers to the east are also located on ledges. Heroes or monsters may not fight between an adjacent ledge and these large pits, as they are too deep. The stairs at the corridor between may be used to safely move between levels, though Heroes may instead voluntarily fall into either pit. Any Hero falling into a pit suffers 1 Body Point of damage. Additionally, a Hero that falls on a spike square instead suffers 2 Body Points of damage. A Hero may attempt to jump an adjacent square with a floor spikes as if it were a trap, but failure results in only 1 Body Point of damage. Moving through a space occupied by the platform chain in the eastern pit costs one extra movement.


Teldurn wrote:In my head, I was thinking the Twisting Catacombs' Living Door.

That would be awesome for a board game of Conquering Despair. I hope your gaming platform allows you to share images so you can show them to the players as they encounter the door. It definitely does.


Quest 12
I wonder if players will exploit the lighting effect to minimize monster threat to villagers. Personally, I would love if they did that. Maybe err on the side of caution and reduce the bounty. How about 30? Also, exiting this Quest with Villagers on the way to the Tower of despair seems strange. I'd make a one-time rescue mission back to the start point and the Emporer's bank the Quest objective. Good point.

Interesting re-use of chests. In Quests such as Quest 1 and Quest 12, the chests could be identified by the room letter rather than a red "T". This isn't necessary, but it may clean up the maps a bit. In Quest 12, for example: A chest at the square marked "A" contains an Elixer of Life. Quest 9 would require relabling the two chests with "A" or adding a location letter. Chests found buried in grass as in Quests 3 and 6 would need to swap added location letters for a red "T," however.

On the subject of Quest 6, if you ever convert this all into a boardgame version, I think the large map will cause table space (and printing cost) problems. Each quadrant may need to be played seperately, as with The Dark Company. Or maybe instead the map could be printed smaller with tiny Hero and monster tokens. Otherwise, a smaller map might be made for boardgame play. Hmm. Well, I know that if one were to purchase the map, it comes with a 50 A4 pages of a PDF where each page can be printed out separately, so the printing side of the equation is taken care of. But that raises the question of actually playing on a table....I think I may need to in fact reduce the size of the map. And just cropping this map won't really cut it; I'll need to use a different tileset. :/
Last edited by Teldurn on April 17th, 2015, 5:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [Quest Pack][WIP] Conquering Despair

Postby Teldurn » April 17th, 2015, 11:39 am

Daedalus wrote: Also, couldn't a block only be pushed to further the challenge and make it seem more "real"? ]

I thought about that as well, but if someone pushes blocks in such a fashion that it is irrevocably fraggled up and unsolvable, they'd have no way to correct it, making the rest of the map infinitely harder (though still not impossible).
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Re: [Quest Pack][WIP] Conquering Despair

Postby Teldurn » April 17th, 2015, 5:12 pm

Daedalus wrote:On the subject of Quest 6, if you ever convert this all into a boardgame version, I think the large map will cause table space (and printing cost) problems. Each quadrant may need to be played seperately, as with The Dark Company. Or maybe instead the map could be printed smaller with tiny Hero and monster tokens. Otherwise, a smaller map might be made for boardgame play.

Okay. After some careful consideration, I think I've come up with a reasonable compromise that will still make use of the same map. Let me know what you think of this:

Since the printing side of the problem is covered by the map download itself as previously mentioned, that just leaves the problem of moving monsters halfway across the board, from a space potentially larger than the table the map is placed on (4 feet x 4 feet). To fix this, I will make the portals start to spit out monsters only after they're discovered, and changing it back again to every turn instead of every other turn. In addition, I will add a spattering of monsters around the map so Heroes have something to do on their turns other than listen to the old geezer fart as they escort him to the altar.

And, as a final note on this for a while, I will be taking the family on vacation all next week starting tomorrow morning. So I will leave this for after I get back (hopefully not sunburnt! :gargoyle: ) and see what happens at that point. :D
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Re: [Quest Pack][WIP] Conquering Despair

Postby Daedalus » April 17th, 2015, 6:28 pm

Teldurn wrote:
Daedalus wrote:Quest 12
I wonder if players will exploit the lighting effect to minimize monster threat to villagers. Personally, I would love if they did that. Maybe err on the side of caution and reduce the bounty. How about 30?

Hmm. There are potentially 25 villagers to rescue. I don't really know how many should be expected to survive, but I imagine roughly 2/3 or more will make it. That's 480-750 gold coins at 30 per head. If the monsters were to force the Heroes to retreat early the total bounty would lessen while still allowing for the possiblity of this greater reward. It looks like you've got a bunch of threat out there, but it's hard to be sure without a playtest if it's enough to drive them back. It might be safer to lower their number and/or go down to 20 gold coins for each rescued villager. They're commoners, after all. :P


Teldurn wrote:Okay. After some careful consideration, I think I've come up with a reasonable compromise that will still make use of the same map. Let me know what you think of this:

Since the printing side of the problem is covered by the map download itself as previously mentioned, that just leaves the problem of moving monsters halfway across the board, from a space potentially larger than the table the map is placed on (4 feet x 4 feet). To fix this, I will make the portals start to spit out monsters only after they're discovered, and changing it back again to every turn instead of every other turn. In addition, I will add a spattering of monsters around the map so Heroes have something to do on their turns other than listen to the old geezer fart as they escort him to the altar.

And, as a final note on this for a while, I will be taking the family on vacation all next week starting tomorrow morning. So I will leave this for after I get back (hopefully not sunburnt! :gargoyle: ) and see what happens at that point. :D

I like both the activated portals and preset monster ideas as they more efficiently dole out the challenge with less need for tracking random movement. Some other thoughts for governing monster tracking on the map:

  • Perhaps a monster starting outside of the Heroes' sight areas should be removed if it doesn't become visible on its next turn.
  • Maybe a monster could continue moving on the map only if it was on a route toward a Hero or the druid. Otherwise it is removed.
  • A monster remains on the map only if it has LOS to a Hero or the druid at the end of its movement.
One thing I wasn't clear on is whether a monster's random direction applies only as it emerges from a portal, or if its direction randomly changes each turn. The former makes more sense to me, but if it uses paths it would again need to randomly choose its route at an intersection. Would a monster instead ignore paths and move over grass when wandering? I think sticking to paths is simplest and preferable until a monster is within the Heroes' sight radius or until it has LOS to the Heroes.

Have a great vacation, any further posts can wait to be read until you get back.
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Re: [Quest Pack][WIP] Conquering Despair

Postby Daedalus » April 21st, 2015, 1:42 am

Quest 9
I've just noticed that the exit to Quest 12 at location F is blocked by greenery. I'd suggest moving the location letter onto the blocking greenery to eliminate the issue. However, if printed tiles were to be used the Greenery would still be visible. Maybe move the letter just before the greenery, instead.


Quest 13
Find the Ice Forge. Combine your Gems of Power to reforge the Everlasting Circlet. Then make your way inside the Tower to save the sorcerer. Then prepare to take on the evil lich. > Find the Ice Forge and combine your Gems of Power to reforge the Everlasting Circlet. Then make your way inside the Tower to find the sorcerer before taking on the evil lich.

Notes:
Perhaps you could add a reason why there isn't a return to the Armory and Alchemist's Shop. Outh’velok may have summoned a horde of undead that is surrounding the Tower of Despair-it may only be dispersed with Ough'velok's destruction. Otherwise, the tower may simply be too remote to be revisited, or there is a time constraint before he commits some blasphemous affront to the Empire.

(I've re-lettered this Quest, though this is less important than as in Quest 12.)
A. [same as original B]

B. [same as original A]

C. [same as original D]

D. [add this location letter to both the lowest and highest square of the watchtower's spiral stairway] Alternative text:
Both of these landings are part of the watchtower's spiral stairway. Any Heroes or monsters that move onto one of these squares immediately move to the other landing and their turn is over.
I treated these stairs as safe trap doors as there must be more than the 6 visible steps to reach an upper-tower floor. This means the Skeletons on the upper floor get first attack against a Hero that reaches the top of the stairs. This seems fair to me, as fighting from below should incur some sort of penalty. If you prefer, you could instead have each square of stairway counts as 2 squares for movement purposes (borrowed from the icy river of the BQP.) [-edit]

E. [same location and initial text of original G] Alternative text:
This second story of the watchtower affords a great view the surroundings from its open wall. The "vicinity" of any monster or Hero on this floor who stands adjacent to the outer wall is extended three squares beyond. The Skeleton Archers begin revealed to any Hero on the ground at this enlarged distance. Additionally, any monster or Hero adjacent to the upper wall gains an extra die to defend against ranged attacks or resist spells directed from the ground. However, line of sight is blocked both to and from the outer surroundings for a figure on this floor who isn't adjacent to the wall, so don't reveal the Skeleton Warriors (or chests) until this floor is entered. The first Hero to search for treasure finds a Longbow, a Quiver of Arrows, and a Potion each of Cure, Restoration, and Healing in the chests.
I went for defensive advantage instead, as tower walls were built for protection.

F. [same location as original F]
Gargoyle statues make sense, yet the same trick has just been played at the Ice Forge. It's just a brainstorm, but for greater variety why not change the Gargoyles from monsters to traps that must be disarmed from an adjacent square? Perhaps both Gargoyles can each gout 1 combat die of flaming oil damage that can't be defended onto all four squares of the threshold when either door is opened (sort of like a blade trap.) Due to their height, they could be more difficult to disarm--the Dwarf needs anything but a skull rather than anything but a black shield. Additionally, both must be removed or the remaining Gargoyle trap still does its 1 die of damage. Now that I have it all down, it is a bit complex--I'll let you decide if there is anything worthwhile here.

G. [same location and initial text of original X] Alternative text:
A beaten and bloody Kazgotul is slumped on the throne at the square marked "G." Use the Chaos Warlock figure to represent him. He is in no shape to join the Heroes as a powerful curse prevents him from being healed. When the monsters in the room are killed, he weakly holds out a piece of paper bearing a drawing of a crown. It has jewels of different colors set in it and an arrow pointing to a gray-colored head, as if to indicate how to wear the crown. Kazgotul says the Circlet is the key to defeating Outh’velok, then he succumbs to his wounds.

H. [same location and initial text is from original E] Alternative text:
A treasure chest located at this square contains 2 Potions of Resistance and a Potion of Invisibility.

I. [same location and initial text is from original C] Alternative text:
These stairways both lead upward into the Tower of Despair; a Hero who moves onto either may exit this Quest. If the Everlasting Circlet hasn't yet been reforged, Kazgotul coughs up some blood and struggles to remind the Heroes that this task must first be completed before they ascend if they hope to defeat Outh’velok. [-edit]
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Re: [Quest Pack][WIP] Conquering Despair

Postby Daedalus » April 21st, 2015, 4:17 pm

Quest 13
There is no shopping trip between Quests--check. What about regaining spells, Body Points and Mind Points? I assume they are meant to be regained as per the standard rules, but a thematic explanation would be nice as the Heroes are just climbing a level of the tower. Some thoughts:

  • No explanation--the Heroes just get them back as with KK or RotWL. I suppose they rest up on the first floor.
  • The Circlet restores lost spells, BPs and MPs as an after effect of of the forging process. Kazgotul or his note can impart this.
  • The throne or dais it rests on can restore spells. The chest contains enough potions to heal Body and Mind Points.


Quest 14
Notes:
I'm probably getting too literal, but the spiral stairs between floors don't quite work for me as actual movement. They only wind 2 or 3 squares and appear too tiny for actual use. Still, they are cool and I'd understand if you prefer to use the squares as pictured for actual movement. I could see each square of a spiral stair costing 1 extra movement to account for the discrepancy (similar to low furniture from HQP.) Alternatively, the trap-door method of joining floors used in the watchtower of the last Quest could also work here.

2nd Floor:
I changed the location letters a bit.

A. [same location and initial text of original A] Alternative text:
This stairway has low side rails. Tell the Heroes as a special attack action, a Hero adjacent to a Skeleton may attempt to push it straight back over a side. That Skeleton immediately rolls one combat die. If it rolls anything but a black shield, it plummets and shatters on the floor below.
I made things a tactically harder for the Heroes to push and restricted vulnerable monsters to lighter Skeletons. I suppose a Chaos Warrior could be made to be pushed as well, but I'd at least allow this heavier monster to throw 3 combat dice to resist. Also, it might be advisable to include that Skeleton Warriors advance onto the stairs to attack if possible. If this isn't scripted, why would a M/Z player risk easily losing his monsters? OK, some would do so for the dramatic fall, but others wouldn't and this cool opportunity would be lost.

B. [bump the location letter toward the middle of the room, use same location and initial text of original C] Alternative text:
The Skeleton Warriors here begin seated on chairs. They must first stand up, so they only have a move of 5 on their first turn.
I changed this a bit to make it more plain only 1 movement square was lost. A M/Z player with less experience with HQP might mistake "one extra movement" to mean the full movement of a turn. Not absolutely necessary.

The Main Game System comes with 4 Skeletons. RotWL comes with 8. This room requires 6 Skeleton Warriors and 4 Skeleton Archers. I'd add a note at the beginning of the Quest Booklet that mentions monster figures needed to play the Quest Pack.

C. [same location and initial text of original B] Alternative text:
This spiral stairway leads upward [-edit] to the 3rd floor.


3rd Floor:
I changed the location letters a bit.

A. [same location and initial text of original B] Alternative text:
This spiral stairway leads both upward to the 4th floor and downward [-edit] to the 2nd floor.

B. [same location and initial text of original A] Alternative text:
Both treasure chests at the squares marked "A" are empty.

C. [same location and initial text of original C] Alternative text:
The crenelated embrasures around this perimeter are wide enough to potentially fall out of. Tell the Heroes as a special attack action, a Hero adjacent to a Zombie or Mummy may attempt to push it straight back out of an adjacent embrasure. A Zombie immediately rolls 1 combat die, while a Mummy rolls 2. Unless either monster rolls a black shield, it plummets and is destroyed far below.
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