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HeroQuest Prime

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Re: HeroQuest Prime

Postby Teldurn » Sunday December 1st, 2013 3:50pm

By the way, cp, I've done a bit of RPG design myself, so if you need a sounding board or something, I'd be more than happy to lend an ear or a hand. :)
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Re: HeroQuest Prime

Postby Goblin-King » Sunday December 1st, 2013 4:47pm

Teldurn wrote:
el_flesh wrote:Necro has usually used the idea of sacrificing some BP to raise minions. So his special ability would be to absorb 1 BP off slain creatures; usually adjacent. (Diagonal OK).
You could make a Poisonmancer whose ability is to poison his dagger, some spell cards making poison nova, corpse pollution, etc.
Lastly, there is the Bonemancer who can have Bone Armor ability, uses cards to cast Bone spear, teeth, bone wall, prison....

If you keep this idea going, you can give him a Golem instead when it comes time for Mercenary hiring...

Good point. I hadn't thought of making that an ability by itself for the necro. It was going to be one of the spell cards. However I'm not clear on what you mean by the minion raising by absorbing a BP off a dead creature.

I dig the Poisonmancer and Bonemancer ideas, too! But I'm not familiar with those spell names. Are they from one of the expansions?

Sounds like Diablo 2 - Lord of Destruction skills :)

I don't think the whole concept of sacrificing and regaining BP will work too well in HQ.
The problem is that if he simply ignores his spells he will just be a regular hero but with an reusable SELF-HEAL ability!
BP is too valuable to be regained by a reusable ability. It will be game breaking!
But how about giving him spell tokens for standing adjacent to a dying monster instead? A number of tokens must be sacrificed to cast spells.

That is unless you just want to give him a regular spell deck instead... You could easily make him a wizard equivalent and give him 9 necromancer spells.

edit: also "prime" can mean first in importance or quality or of superior grade, not necessarily just something that came first chronologically. So don't worry about the name - it's fitting |_P


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Re: HeroQuest Prime

Postby Teldurn » Sunday December 1st, 2013 5:12pm

Goblin-King wrote:
Teldurn wrote:
el_flesh wrote:Necro has usually used the idea of sacrificing some BP to raise minions. So his special ability would be to absorb 1 BP off slain creatures; usually adjacent. (Diagonal OK).
You could make a Poisonmancer whose ability is to poison his dagger, some spell cards making poison nova, corpse pollution, etc.
Lastly, there is the Bonemancer who can have Bone Armor ability, uses cards to cast Bone spear, teeth, bone wall, prison....

If you keep this idea going, you can give him a Golem instead when it comes time for Mercenary hiring...

Good point. I hadn't thought of making that an ability by itself for the necro. It was going to be one of the spell cards. However I'm not clear on what you mean by the minion raising by absorbing a BP off a dead creature.

I dig the Poisonmancer and Bonemancer ideas, too! But I'm not familiar with those spell names. Are they from one of the expansions?

Sounds like Diablo 2 - Lord of Destruction skills :)

I don't think the whole concept of sacrificing and regaining BP will work too well in HQ.
The problem is that if he simply ignores his spells he will just be a regular hero but with an reusable SELF-HEAL ability!
BP is too valuable to be regained by a reusable ability. It will be game breaking!
But how about giving him spell tokens for standing adjacent to a dying monster instead? A number of tokens must be sacrificed to cast spells.

That is unless you just want to give him a regular spell deck instead... You could easily make him a wizard equivalent and give him 9 necromancer spells.

edit: also "prime" can mean first in importance or quality or of superior grade, not necessarily just something that came first chronologically. So don't worry about the name - it's fitting |_P


1. Given that (in my head) I'm building a superior version of HeroQuest, I think it fits. :D

2. For the Necromancer, actually I was thinking of using Ethica's Necromancer spell deck (http://www.yeoldeinn.com/na-cards.php. I'm not 100% sure what the forum rules are regarding directly linking to PDFs, so just to be safe there's the page it's located on). I would be changing the wording on some of them to fit my tastes -- things like Hellfire being allowed a defense, and a couple other points. I might even incorporate a couple ideas of Dewayne Agin's Necromancer set, from the same page...regardless that it's Zargon's set.

3. If I chose to make the Necro a class with an ability instead of spells, I would make it such that if the Necromancer loses 1BP, he can raise the last slain enemy as a 1BP minion. But I'm a bit more partial to him being a wizard equivalent, but with more (un)death-focused spells.
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Re: HeroQuest Prime

Postby Daedalus » Sunday December 15th, 2013 4:01pm

Teldurn wrote:Race - Special Ability
...Dragonkin - Breath Weapon: As an action, breathe fire (or ice or acid, etc., your choice at creation) in a straight line up to 3 squares. All monsters and heroes in that line take 1BP of damage that cannot be defended....

Class - Feature
Acrobat - Opportunistic: You can split your movement phase up with an action.
Assassin - Trap Knack: Disarm traps without a toolkit....
...Monk - Flurry of blows: Sacrifice your move action to attack more than one adjacent enemy. Split your attack dice between adjacent enemies....

I'm not a fan of Dragonkin. The breath weapon seems too good to me. I hope it is usable only once a Quest.

Acrobat- like it, hope it playtests well.

Assassin- I'm not too sure there is enough special in the ability. Allowing for a reroll is a good idea, but how often will it come into play? Maybe include a Hazard avoidance roll--I dunno. Also, I'd drop the master tool kit. It makes the Assassin's skill something that can be purchased, which devalues it in my opinion.

Monk- I like the Monk's Flurry of Blows description (but give it an HQ name). Adding a movement cost and generalizing it's use to any attack makes sense and fits HQ's simple-is-better model.
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Re: HeroQuest Prime

Postby Teldurn » Sunday December 15th, 2013 5:29pm

Daedalus wrote:
Teldurn wrote:Race - Special Ability
...Dragonkin - Breath Weapon: As an action, breathe fire (or ice or acid, etc., your choice at creation) in a straight line up to 3 squares. All monsters and heroes in that line take 1BP of damage that cannot be defended....

Class - Feature
Acrobat - Opportunistic: You can split your movement phase up with an action.
Assassin - Trap Knack: Disarm traps without a toolkit....
...Monk - Flurry of blows: Sacrifice your move action to attack more than one adjacent enemy. Split your attack dice between adjacent enemies....

I'm not a fan of Dragonkin. The breath weapon seems too good to me. I hope it is usable only once a Quest.

Acrobat- like it, hope it playtests well.

Assassin- I'm not too sure there is enough special in the ability. Allowing for a reroll is a good idea, but how often will it come into play? Maybe include a Hazard avoidance roll--I dunno. Also, I'd drop the master tool kit. It makes the Assassin's skill something that can be purchased, which devalues it in my opinion. This change would also keep standard and master toolkits viable.

Monk- I like the Monk's Flurry of Blows description (but give it an HQ name). Adding a movement cost and generalizing it's use to any attack makes sense and fits HQ's simple-is-better model.


You make excellent points as always, Daedalus.

With Dragonkin, I had been going back and forth between (1) what I wrote (which would be once per Quest), and (2) making it only apply to one adjacent square only, and/or be defendable. Considering how other classes get to do their special thing potentially every turn, I felt option (1) would be a good compromise, but (2) would get more use. I chose (1) because of the cinematics of it. If 3 squares is tested to be too powerful, it can be dropped to 1 or 2 squares instead.

For the Assassin, how about this instead: When searching for treasure, if a Hazard card is pulled, roll one combat die. If a skull is rolled, disregard that card and pull another.

And for the Monk's FoB: Whirlwind Attack. Done.

Finally, you didn't mention this, Daedalus, but it made me want to bring it up. I always felt the Weaponmaster's +1 AD across the board is overpowered. I'm changing that to being able to avoid worrying about broken weapons. This would fit in with the theme of a weaponmaster knowing how to take exceptional care of his weapons and is unique enough that I think it should be viable...especially once I drop the threshold of damaging weapons from 4 black shields to 3.
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Re: HeroQuest Prime

Postby Daedalus » Monday December 23rd, 2013 6:17pm

Go with your idea on Dragonkin. I'm not a fan of the race, so I'm pretty sure you'd make a better power than I.
Giving the Assassin a 50/50 chance sounds good to me.
Nerfing the Weaponmaster sounds wise. I like the protection from weapon damage. Do you limit Hero weapons? Maybe he could ignore the limit or get auto switching. Just brainstorming.

Teldurn wrote:2. For the Necromancer, actually I was thinking of using Ethica's Necromancer spell deck (http://www.yeoldeinn.com/na-cards.php. I'm not 100% sure what the forum rules are regarding directly linking to PDFs, so just to be safe there's the page it's located on). I would be changing the wording on some of them to fit my tastes -- things like Hellfire being allowed a defense, and a couple other points. I might even incorporate a couple ideas of Dewayne Agin's Necromancer set, from the same page...regardless that it's Zargon's set.

There aren't any rules to linking to PDFs here at the Inn. Of course, stealing other's work and presenting it as your own isn't what we do. You already hit upon the etiquette, which is to call out the creator with the link. If you wanted, you could first PM the creator as a courtesy, but it isn't required. The guiding principle is we post to share. By directly linking to his cards, you are merely making it easier to find and use them. I haven't yet read about a member that wasn't willing to have his or her ideas adopted by another member.

Many members also prefer to give credit to others when borrowing ideas from forum threads. You can't go wrong knitting yourself into the community this way, though it is understandable that the source of every idea won't be remembered or mentioned.

If you want to make any changes that you afterward want to post, I'd say contact the original creator as a courtesy. He or she might appreciate your changes and wish to incorporate them in the design. If the changes are significant enough for credit, drathe could always change the description if the PDF is to be replaced.

If instead you'd like to do the changes alone, be sure to give the original creator credit for the extent of his or her work, and everything should be fine.
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Re: HeroQuest Prime

Postby Teldurn » Monday December 23rd, 2013 11:26pm

Daedalus wrote:Go with your idea on Dragonkin. I'm not a fan of the race, so I'm pretty sure you'd make a better power than I.

|_P

Daedalus wrote:Giving the Assassin a 50/50 chance sounds good to me.
Nerfing the Weaponmaster sounds wise. I like the protection from weapon damage. Do you limit Hero weapons? Maybe he could ignore the limit or get auto switching. Just brainstorming.

Yes, Heroes get limited weapons according to class. That long table of weapons and armor I put up on the first page of this thread will be redone to incorporate which items are restricted by which classes. And it will be redone as a gigantic Expanded Armory graphic PDF, too. (Thank you, Sjeng, for the PSD file!) Because one can never have too many visual aids. :geek:

Daedalus wrote:
Teldurn wrote:2. For the Necromancer, actually I was thinking of using Ethica's Necromancer spell deck (http://www.yeoldeinn.com/na-cards.php. I'm not 100% sure what the forum rules are regarding directly linking to PDFs, so just to be safe there's the page it's located on). I would be changing the wording on some of them to fit my tastes -- things like Hellfire being allowed a defense, and a couple other points. I might even incorporate a couple ideas of Dewayne Agin's Necromancer set, from the same page...regardless that it's Zargon's set.

There aren't any rules to linking to PDFs here at the Inn. Of course, stealing other's work and presenting it as your own isn't what we do. You already hit upon the etiquette, which is to call out the creator with the link. If you wanted, you could first PM the creator as a courtesy, but it isn't required. The guiding principle is we post to share. By directly linking to his cards, you are merely making it easier to find and use them. I haven't yet read about a member that wasn't willing to have his or her ideas adopted by another member.

Many members also prefer to give credit to others when borrowing ideas from forum threads. You can't go wrong knitting yourself into the community this way, though it is understandable that the source of every idea won't be remembered or mentioned.

If you want to make any changes that you afterward want to post, I'd say contact the original creator as a courtesy. He or she might appreciate your changes and wish to incorporate them in the design. If the changes are significant enough for credit, drathe could always change the description if the PDF is to be replaced.

If instead you'd like to do the changes alone, be sure to give the original creator credit for the extent of his or her work, and everything should be fine.

Basically I look at what I'm trying to do as kind of a one-person project using the resources of an entire community. I'm not taking others' work and trying to pass it off as my own, but rather, I'm taking work other people have done, building upon that foundation, and putting it together into a cohesive package. Oftentimes this will require slight tweaks here and there, but not in the slightest am I trying to pretend I did all the work. :P

Even though I won't be able to credit each person's contribution individually, I did intend on having either the first or second page of the PDF to have a large list of people whom shall receive credit either for having done work which I am including in this project and/or providing valuable feedback (like on this thread). Goodness knows there is a dearth of good feedback and critique for artistic projects like this, so to credit it where it is deserved is nothing but to the good.

I know I'm still a relative unknown in the community thus far, a small fry. But I'm hopeful that once I'm done with this project I will have earned some kudos and goodwill...and maybe then I can buy some of that cheese knightkrawler's always going on about. :cheese:
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Re: HeroQuest Prime

Postby Gold Bearer » Tuesday December 24th, 2013 3:29am

Teldurn wrote:I've had the very nagging (in a good way) urge to go balls-in in modifying the original HQ rules to my tastes. As I kept thinking about what I wanted, the scope of the project kept expanding. This is definitely still a work in progress, and I'm looking for feedback for these ideas. Here's what I've got so far. Note that for many of the rules, I will be cherry-picking what other people have done, if I don't come up with something new myself. Naturally, credit will be given in the package, and it will be made available for everyone to check out. This is going to be kind of stream-of-consciousness, so I beg your pardon if it seems rambly. No time to organize these thoughts properly.
Hello brother. |_P

Warning: I can seem blunt when I type (actually in person as well at times) but I'm not being nasty. If I didn't like your ideas I wouldn't be commenting. This is all based on the first post. I will read the rest so sorry if you addressed some of these later.

Mostly great. Don't like the knight though. Very unappealing if each player only has one character and useless skill for a solo quest.

Maybe the Monk could simply attack twice if he doesn't move?

The Paladin should defend with either shield instead of skulls just because they're shields and it wouldn't alter him at all.

"(normally the range on bows is the Hero's max Body Points)" I like that. I thought about ranges but decided against it.

Why would a thief steal from a monster? I presume if the monsters have money then the heroes get it anyway when they kill them, or is it simply to stop other heroes from getting it. Useless if there's only one hero player.

Warlord skill doesn't seem very useful. Underpowered.

Warrior's really overpowered compared to the others. I wouldn't even consider anyone else. That's a hell of a skill if you think about it. I've got a character like that (I'm still trying to find my original stuff) but with major restrictions in other areas to compensate.

I don't like the name 'acrobat'. Can't think of a better one though. I think it's a good name for a skill but not a class.

I really like the ... hunter. Simple and a nice idea. I might have to steal that as a later skill for my ranger if you don't mind.
:goblin: 1BP, :orc: 2BP, :fimir: 3BP, :skeleton: 1BP, :zombie: 2BP, :mummy: 3BP, :chaoswarrior: 4BP, :gargoyle: 5BP. US :chaoswarrior: 3BP, US :gargoyle: 4BP.

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Re: HeroQuest Prime

Postby chaoticprime » Tuesday December 24th, 2013 5:33am

Thief-Acrobat.


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Re: HeroQuest Prime

Postby Teldurn » Tuesday December 24th, 2013 10:49am

Gold Bearer wrote:
Teldurn wrote:I've had the very nagging (in a good way) urge to go balls-in in modifying the original HQ rules to my tastes. As I kept thinking about what I wanted, the scope of the project kept expanding. This is definitely still a work in progress, and I'm looking for feedback for these ideas. Here's what I've got so far. Note that for many of the rules, I will be cherry-picking what other people have done, if I don't come up with something new myself. Naturally, credit will be given in the package, and it will be made available for everyone to check out. This is going to be kind of stream-of-consciousness, so I beg your pardon if it seems rambly. No time to organize these thoughts properly.
Hello brother. |_P

Warning: I can seem blunt when I type (actually in person as well at times) but I'm not being nasty. If I didn't like your ideas I wouldn't be commenting. This is all based on the first post. I will read the rest so sorry if you addressed some of these later.

Thanks for replying, Gold Bearer. As you make your way through the rest of the thread, you will see that I have already made mention and/or corrected many of the ones you have commented on. But I wanted to point out a few things to make clear. :)

Mostly great. Don't like the knight though. Very unappealing if each player only has one character and useless skill for a solo quest.

Keep in mind that I am also going to be writing a quest pack that will go with this project. Solo quests will not be included. So while the classes I propose can be taken and played through the base game quests and the expansions, that is not my ultimate intention.

Maybe the Monk could simply attack twice if he doesn't move?

The Paladin should defend with either shield instead of skulls just because they're shields and it wouldn't alter him at all.

"(normally the range on bows is the Hero's max Body Points)" I like that. I thought about ranges but decided against it.

I've corrected the Monk's ability as you will see. As for the Paladin.. well, I simply hadn't thought about it that way, but making it be shields does indeed make more sense! :)

Why would a thief steal from a monster? I presume if the monsters have money then the heroes get it anyway when they kill them, or is it simply to stop other heroes from getting it. Useless if there's only one hero player.

Again, there will be no solo quests. Plus, consider this: If this were a full-fledged RPG, then the PCs would be getting gold drops that monsters were carrying. This would greatly devalue the Thief's skill. But since this is HQ, that doesn't happen. What that means is that under normal circumstances, killed monsters won't drop anything, but if you're a Thief you can fill your pockets much better than the other PCs can, at the expense of not attacking as often.

Warlord skill doesn't seem very useful. Underpowered.

While on the surface, Warlord might not seem useful, it's meant to be used as more a battlefield tactics generator. So if you have a monster that is hanging back and only engaging one Hero at a time then running away or something, then the Warlord can step up to it (with his buddies behind him), switch places with the pesky bugger and suddenly the monster is surrounded by Heroes and probably can't run away.

Warrior's really overpowered compared to the others. I wouldn't even consider anyone else. That's a hell of a skill if you think about it. I've got a character like that (I'm still trying to find my original stuff) but with major restrictions in other areas to compensate.

I completely agree and have already made a correction to this.

I don't like the name 'acrobat'. Can't think of a better one though. I think it's a good name for a skill but not a class.

I really like the ... hunter. Simple and a nice idea. I might have to steal that as a later skill for my ranger if you don't mind.

I don't mind at all, go right ahead! |_P
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