HQ25 monster stats and abilities #3 the Minotaur

[Daedalus]

Oof! This guy looks like he'll be a real pain to fight for the Heroes.
Not that a 5/3/4 Minotaur wouldn't have, of course, but that extra level of burliness makes it that much more difficult to use Minos in HQ25 as anything other than "boss monsters".
Also, I may have to edit Q17 ("Minos Pass") slightly; probably nobody wants to fight a pair of Minotaur brothers with 7 Defense dice each!

Yes I also would have preferred th 534 variant.

I am currently brooding over a quest with him as wandering monster. There isn't much else.

Actual Quest designs that call for a moderate stats is a good reason to choose the lesser stats, so I'd say choice F) with 5/3/4 stats is the way to go. We can always have a Quest featuring the tougher choice B) with 5/5/5 stats called for in the Notes section.

The Minos from thantos are very large and need those kind of stats. Perhaps different types of beastmen can fill the gaps.

Different figures will be used for the Minotaurs, but ideally they should fit on a 2x1 or 1¹/₂x1 base to match the Hero Quest standard which can fit in 1-Square corridors and through single doors. The Thantos Minotaurs are made to fit on a 2x2 base. Go ahead and use them anyways-it would be a shame not to. Perhaps a Quest designed for the Minotaur can feature a double door. Or just say they squeeze in anyway and overlap the walls.

[Daedalus]

Considering nearly every Minotaur figure available to use will have a 1x2-square footprint (or more), I definitely support the diagonal attack from the Large Monster rule found in the EQP and BQP.

On the other hand, I'm only partially convinced choice B, the Goring Charge ability, is needed. It leads with 3 votes while Large Monster only has 2 votes. Okay, that's reason to include an extra ability. Now add in the 1 vote of choice K, which calls for no ability. In my opinion, the no-ability choice is subsumed by the NA Large Monster rule--something necessitated by the size of the figure. Three votes can then (sort of) be counted for no further ability other than diagonal attack.

All that said, both abilities B and K still make sense. I'd drop the less-necessary Goring Charge only because the Minotaur is already special with diagonal attacks and the highest stats of the general Monsters. Every other of the HQ-25 Monsters have abilities--are more really needed? I see this as a case of less is more.

[Anderas]

I do see the vote result, and I see your opinion...

Sadly, the vote is not very active; otherwise I would ask for a "democratic" voting decision. I would like to really create "The Forum Minotaur".

* Mohawk and I prefer the 534 Minotaur because it is easier to use that one in Quest design.
* Everybody who ordered Thantos' Minotaurs prefers 555 because that's fitting much better to the models. They are the majority

* Mitchie and some others are for having some kind of ram rule, because those kinds of animals do ram each other all the time and I am quite supportive for that idea
* The diagonal rule is anchored in the later quest packs; so this should be there anyway.
* I also like to have standard monsters without special rules - if everyone is special, no one is special in the end.

What I would like most is that everybody who is interested at least a bit in this playcard, voices his opinion, so that we can get somewhere in a limited time.

My current card looks like this: Beast People removed, EU Layout corrected, some other fine tuning in the layout.


During playtesting, the ram rule was not yet used... but I was playtesting only "The dark castle Ambush" once.
That quest employs Sotiris' Idea of having a Minotaur that is appearing as a surprise all the time. And as a wandering Monster, you appear next to a hero, so no ram.

[knightkrawler]

The bigger tht thing is, the more other monsters the EWP needs to surround it for protection, otherwise it can be attacked by all heroes (and their henchmen) in the same round.
Another key is the Mind Points. There is a reason for that 1, and a quest containing The Minotaur should be written with a solution to his strengths and weaknesses.
Artefact, anyone? Spell? Let the wizard be the key hero, here, as seemingly intended for the Wizard Quest Pack that seems to have featured a Minotaur, according to Toco's finding.
Just trying to feed some reconsiderings about the stats of an obvious boss monster that has a skill instead of spells and lower attack and defense than some wizards...

[benvoliothefirst]

I'm curious as to how the Zealot Minos compare in size to the ogres. I plan to use the giant Battle Masters orgres as the ones from the Elf Quest Pack, using daedalus' stats, since they're HUGE.

[Daedalus]

The bigger tht thing is, the more other monsters the EWP needs to surround it for protection, otherwise it can be attacked by all heroes (and their henchmen) in the same round.

Count Mohawk set the Minotaur up with the ultimate bodyguard--another Minotaur! I personally like that we can count the Minotaur as a group Monster like the Ogre or use it as a boss; more options=more use.

Mohawk can adjust his Quest easy enough by dropping the Minotaur brothers' +2 defend bonus. I'm less confident Anderas' Wandering Monster Minotaur will see its story potential fully explored as sane Heroes probably won't search after realizing they may trigger a 5/5/5 boss. Still, that won't break anything. Perhaps the weaker stats can be used in this case as notes are already used for its description?

Back to opinions about the card. Color-wise, I think it could be strengthened with a blue background and yellow armor plates. Warm colors are generally used to pop the foreground while cool colors recede in the background.

Ideally, the Minotaur would be centered more and presented as a full-body shot. Is this possible?

There's also an unintended ability combo. As worded: after attacking a figure, on the next turn a Minotaur can move away 2 squares, sidestep, move forward 3 squares and attack the same target diagonally or from another adjacent square. That needs fixing. Besides, the small ability text could also be shortened for readability. How about this:

"Can make diagonal attacks. Can attack with 6 combat dice if move straight forward at least four squares."

[j_dean80]

I'm curious as to how the Zealot Minos compare in size to the ogres. I plan to use the giant Battle Masters orgres as the ones from the Elf Quest Pack, using daedalus' stats, since they're HUGE.

I don't have a proper base for the mino yet, so he is baseless. Female dwarf is a bit too tall.

[Anderas]

Can't move him more to the center, that doesn't work.
But the blue-yellow exchange is easy. Looks better now, I agree.

The base problem of the Minotaur is the same like the old dwarf: It doesn't behave correctly.
By the way, the Gargoyle picture was a head-and-shoulder-close-up, too. I was thinking to do the Minotaur in the same style, but didn't find any suitable picture without copyright.




There are some candidates, though I am neither looking forward to do the coloring nor paying for it:
link
link

[Daedalus]

The card is really shaping up. I'd say it's ready. That second Minotaur link is what should have been used for the back of the Monster Card. I have another image, but as is it's got a bit too much detail, in my opinion. It's a free paper mini from Kev's Lounge that can be downloaded at RPGNow.



My wishlist item would require a lot of work, unfortunately. Don Kueker's Minotaur sketch for the unreleased WQP: