3. HQ25 - Choose your monsters + stats

[Daedalus]

Reading back I realize we only in part finalized the monsters' stats and abilities.
I'll throw in my take on a final set.
The overall theme I want to put emphasis on is positioning of heroes and monsters.
CD, beastmen, minotaurs and kobolds all benefit from a bit of strategic planning

Chaos Dwarf
M6, A2, D4, BP2, MP3
If two chaos dwarfs stand adjacent to each other they both roll 1 additional defense die.

Chaos Dwarf
M6 | A3 | D4 | BP2 | MP2
A Chaos Dwarf adjacent to one or more Chaos Dwarves rolls 1 extra combat die in defense.

I'd change 2 AD to 3 AD. Chaos Dwarves were known for hand weapons or great weapons. Greywolf's AHQ stats have them equipped with an axe (S5 vs. throwing axe S3). They also shouldn't be eclipsed too much by thier rivals, the Elves. An Elven Warrior of HQ has 4 AD and 3 DD. They shouldn't be as strong as an EQP monster, but Chaos Dwarves have 1 fewer BP, and that extra DD or two will seldom affect things. Sticking them with 2 AD is too great of a handicap when considering how the races affect each other, in my opinion. Let Goblin slaves serve as fodder in the combats. Allow Chaos Dwarves some dignity and fear.

I'd also decrease 3 MP down to 2 MP. The Chaos Dwarves Wikipedia entry states, "Chaos Dwarfs also lack the western Dwarf's resistance to magic because of their more direct exposure to Chaos." In HQ, Mind Points best relate to magic resistance, as they are used in many spell cards. Chaos Dwarves with 3 Mind Points contradicts the Wiki entry by making them equal to Dwarves. Furthermore, Chaos Dwarves with 3 Mind Points are better set than Elves, as an Elven Warrior from HQ only has 2 Mind Points.

I like the special ability, but reworded it a bit.

Beastman
M7, A3, D2, BP2, MP2
If a beastman doesn't move during his turn he may attack the same target twice.

Beastman
M7 | A3 | D3 | BP2 | MP2
A Beastman immediately counterattacks when its Body Points are reduced to 1.

A wounded beast is more dangerous. Making the extra attack conditional makes Beastmen more accessible as a lower-end monster. I like your choice of 3 AD for the same reason of accessibility, but I'd want a tougher beastman with 3 DD as it hits less hard. (Also, my Battlemasters Beastmen have shields.)

Minotaur
M6, A5, D5, BP3, MP2
If there are no heroes within 3 squares at the beginning of the minotaur's turn he rolls 2 extra combat dice in an attack.

Minotaur
M6 | A3+2 | D3 | BP 4 | MP 2
Two attacks can be made against one opponent or one attack can be made against each of two different opponents. A Hero only defends once, even if both attacks are directed against him.

I prefer the MB concept art by Don Kueker to be the guide, so lighter armor, a compensating BP, and dual weapons. The Reaper Bones minotaur is an excellent figure for this in my opinion, though perhaps it needs a Forgotten Horror base. For an ability, my feeling is a two-legged monster doesn't have an effective charge like a four-legged bull. I figure double-attacks that can be used against a single defense makes him plenty scary as a lesser version of the Warbear. I think raising him to A3+3=6 like an Ogre Chieftan or Lord to make him more of a threat might be overpowered. I have similar reservations about an A5+2=7 charge ability, which has a good chance of killing the Wizard outright.

Chaos Cultist
M8, A1, D1, BP1, MP3
At the beginning of each of Morcar's turn, if at least one Chaos Cultist is on the board, draw a single random chaos spell card.
A single Chaos Cultist may cast that spell instead of attacking during that turn.

Chaos Cultist
M7 | A1 | D2 | BP1 | MP3
A Cultist may attempt to cast a spell rather than attack. To do so, he rolls 3 combat dice. If a black shield is rolled, a random Chaos Spell Card is drawn and he casts the spell immediately.

I'm for M7, as elite Sorcerers move 8. I like D2 as a Cultist should be tougher than a small Goblin.

Kobold
M10, A1, D2, BP1, MP1
A kobold may add 1 additional attack die to it's attack for each kobold adjacent to the model it is attacking.
Slings and spears goes in the quest notes!

Kobold Reptilian
M8 | A1 | D1 | BP1 | MP1
Kobolds in a Hero's adjacent squares may combine their attack dice as a single attack.

Kobold makes me think of mountain caverns, so I like the more swampy Reptilian name. I like M10 to be the Goblin special (they have nothing else but 6 models), so a more conservative M8. D2 is okay, but I went D1 to seperate them more from Goblins and make them easier to quickly whittle down in the face of their gang-up ability. Four swarming, 4 AD attacks creates a lot more threat than one 4 AD, gang-up attack. I suppose I'm figuring on more Kobolds in a room and want to keep a single Kobold's damage potential lower than Chaos Warrior's battle axe. I'm in total agreement about spears and slings going in a Quest's Notes section.

Basilisk
M8, A4, D4, BP3, MP2
Instead of attacking normally the Basilisk may make a ranged attack against a model it can "see".
The Basilisk rolls a combat die for each MP. The defending model rolls an amount of defense dice equal to his current MP.
Each undefended skull results in the loss of 1 MP. If a model is reduced to 0 MP by the Basilisk he is turned into stone and considered dead.

Basilisk
M8 | A3 | D4 | BP3 | MP2
Instead of attacking on any turn, a Basilisk may use it's petrifying breath. This works as a Cloud of Chaos spell.
-or-
Roll 3 Attack Dice against a target the Basilisk can "see", which a Hero defends using a number of dice equal to his Mind Points. Reduce the Hero's Mind Points by 1 for each undefended skull, and he loses his next turn. A Hero is turned to stone when reduced to 0 Mind Points.

I went with 3 AD over 4 AD to not be so harsh against Heroes affected by the Cloud of Chaos (no defense), but I think it is also okay with the turn to stone ability bumped with a loss of turn. I reason the attack focus is on immobilization, not heavy damage. Not sure if the latter turn-to-stone ability is unfair to the Barbarian and Dwarf, as they could possibly be killed in 1 turn. Probably need a Potion of Flesh Restoration to compensate..

[Count Mohawk]

Popping in to clarify a couple of things.

A Chaos Dwarf adjacent to one or more other Chaos Dwarves rolls 1 extra combat die in defense.

I added the word "other" to make this sentence sound less clunky.

A Beastman immediately counterattacks when its Body Points are reduced to 1.

Does this mean the Beastman counterattacks only after the attack that reduces him to 1 Body, or that he can counterattack every attack while at 1 Body? Since you used "when..." instead of "while...", I am assuming you meant the former, but I want to make sure.

Chaos Cultist
M8, A1, D1, BP1, MP3
At the beginning of each of Morcar's turn, if at least one Chaos Cultist is on the board, draw a single random chaos spell card.
A single Chaos Cultist may cast that spell instead of attacking during that turn.

Chaos Cultist
M7 | A1 | D2 | BP1 | MP3
A Cultist may attempt to cast a spell rather than attack. To do so, he rolls 3 combat dice. If a black shield is rolled, a random Chaos Spell Card is drawn and he casts the spell immediately.

I'm for M7, as elite Sorcerers move 8. I like D2 as a Cultist should be tougher than a small Goblin.

Some of the base-set Chaos Spells are quite powerful; the three most egregious offenders are Cloud of Chaos, Firestorm and Lightning Bolt. Are you guys OK with the approximately 11% chance of a Cultist casting such strong area-of-effect magic (and on a per-turn basis, no less)? (Odds are about 42% to get a black shield on 3 dice, multiplied by 3 chances from 12 to draw an AoE spell = 11%.)

M8 | A1 | D1 | BP1 | MP1

I approve of this change as otherwise the Cultists and the Kobolds/Reptilians have near-identical stats.

I also agree with most of the rest of what you guys were discussing here. Sjeng, when we declare this conversation "done" would you update the first post in this topic with the finished monster stat lines so we don't have to go hunting all over this thread if we forget what they are?.

[knightkrawler]

I strongly suggest keeping the 2 Defend dice for the kobolds.
When I whipped up these stats I was thinking about the EWP strategy options of luring heroes effectively.
Pwetty pwease, have a heart..

[Count Mohawk]

I strongly suggest keeping the 2 Defend dice for the kobolds.
When I whipped up these stats I was thinking about the EWP strategy options of luring heroes effectively.
Pwetty pwease, have a heart.

Then, maybe the Cultists should be the ones with just 1 Defend? They're pretty much walking spellbombs anyway. Although, since the Chaos Dwarves overlap with the Mummies (3 Attack | 4 Defend), we may as well overlap some more. There's only so many configurations of Attack | Defend | Body anyway..

[MrBigB]

Kobold Reptilian
M8 | A1 | D1 | BP1 | MP1
Kobolds in a Hero's adjacent squares may combine their attack dice as a single attack.

Kobold makes me think of mountain caverns, so I like the more swampy Reptilian name. I like M10 to be the Goblin special (they have nothing else but 6 models), so a more conservative M8. D2 is okay, but I went D1 to seperate them more from Goblins and make them easier to quickly whittle down in the face of their gang-up ability. Four swarming, 4 AD attacks creates a lot more threat than one 4 AD, gang-up attack. I suppose I'm figuring on more Kobolds in a room and want to keep a single Kobold's damage potential lower than Chaos Warrior's battle axe. I'm in total agreement about spears and slings going in a Quest's Notes section.

The only real objection I have is the re-titling of kobolds. If the swampy elements don't fit for the kobolds, I suggest we focus some time on them and develop their stats/abilities/spells more to make them stand out on their own. I've always really liked the story premise that the kobolds working with the Fimir is strange and unnatural adding tension to the story. All of which could be played up in the story notes

As for the gang up ability, I really like the idea that a bunch of small critters have the potential to be more dangerous then a single baddie, adds a nice problem for players to work through!

[Gold Bearer]

Can the cultists have the rule that they get one random chaos spell if there's at least three of them in the same room or corridor please so it makes sense with the rules I posted right before for the specialist cultists. It's a much nicer rule anyway.

by the way, Goblin-king and me:
[/quote]If you've had some kind of goblin animosity between you that doesn't mean you can't fight together. Check the rules..

[Daedalus]

A Chaos Dwarf adjacent to one or more other Chaos Dwarves rolls 1 extra combat die in defense.

I added the word "other" to make this sentence sound less clunky.

You say po-tay-to, I say po-tah-to...its funny, your wording sounds fine, but it sounds no less clunky to me with the addition of "other". My thinking is that through the meaning of adjacent Chaos Dwarves are already assumed as other. I suppose it's a habit of mine to be spartan with my descriptions after working within the parameters of word-count limits on HQ cards. I would be satisfied with either description--thanks.

A Beastman immediately counterattacks when its Body Points are reduced to 1.

Does this mean the Beastman counterattacks only after the attack that reduces him to 1 Body, or that he can counterattack every attack while at 1 Body? Since you used "when..." instead of "while...", I am assuming you meant the former, but I want to make sure.

You are assuming correctly--it's a one-time bonus for a Beastman. I think two or three counterattacks would be OP. Maybe the passive structure is unclear. How's this alternative: "A Beastman immediately counterattacks when a Hero reduces its Body Points to 1."

Chaos Cultist
M8, A1, D1, BP1, MP3
At the beginning of each of Morcar's turn, if at least one Chaos Cultist is on the board, draw a single random chaos spell card.
A single Chaos Cultist may cast that spell instead of attacking during that turn.

Chaos Cultist
M7 | A1 | D2 | BP1 | MP3
A Cultist may attempt to cast a spell rather than attack. To do so, he rolls 3 combat dice. If a black shield is rolled, a random Chaos Spell Card is drawn and he casts the spell immediately.

I'm for M7, as elite Sorcerers move 8. I like D2 as a Cultist should be tougher than a small Goblin.

Some of the base-set Chaos Spells are quite powerful; the three most egregious offenders are Cloud of Chaos, Firestorm and Lightning Bolt. Are you guys OK with the approximately 11% chance of a Cultist casting such strong area-of-effect magic (and on a per-turn basis, no less)? (Odds are about 42% to get a black shield on 3 dice, multiplied by 3 chances from 12 to draw an AoE spell = 11%.)

I agree with your concern. Thanks for nailing down the numbers for better illustration. What do you think of this suggestion from 7 posts back in this thread:

Some brainstorms:

...

• I like GK's random casting idea--very thematic. Optionally modify the draw by restricting certain spells in the Notes section. This could keep the results of a combat restrained, so as to not overly upset certain Quests.
  ...

In regards to your Quest arc with Gold Bearer, level 1 Cultists shouldn't have Cloud of Chaos, Firestorm and Lightning Bolt in their random Chaos spell deck. Also, I'd think it a good idea to remove Summon Orcs and Summon Undead. Level 2 Cultists could possibly have the whole deck to choose from, or maybe still take out the big three. Level 3 Cultists, the most powerful, could instead remove weaker spells. I'd suggest taking out Fear, Escape, and maybe Sleep, Tempest, and Ball of Flame as well.

If this doesn't work well enough to suit your needs, Quest Notes could always tailor your specific spell sets to draw from. You could even trump the random draw in the notes section if you feel that is what is needed. I would personally hope some of the Quests in your arc would use the Cultist default casting ability. What that ability should be is yet to be decided upon, but I hope my example suggestions demonstrate there are ways to reconcile various elements. Better ideas are yet possible.

[Gold Bearer]

Chaos Cultist
M7 | A1 | D2 | BP1 | MP3
A Cultist may attempt to cast a spell rather than attack. To do so, he rolls 3 combat dice. If a black shield is rolled, a random Chaos Spell Card is drawn and he casts the spell immediately.

I missed this before. How about if there's three or more in the same room or corridor one of them can attempt to cast a spell rather than attack? If they fail they loose their attacking action.

Kobold Reptilian
M8 | A1 | D1 | BP1 | MP1
Kobolds in a Hero's adjacent squares may combine their attack dice as a single attack.

Kobold makes me think of mountain caverns, so I like the more swampy Reptilian name.

Yes! Also kobolds is crossing worlds, aren't they D&D?.

[Goblin-King]

Kobold Reptilian
M8 | A1 | D1 | BP1 | MP1
Kobolds in a Hero's adjacent squares may combine their attack dice as a single attack.

I agree with M8 for kobolds - M10 is goblins' "special ability". Let the goblins keep this. I say keep the D2 as well.
Disagree with renaming them. Kobolds are fine.

I don't like this type of attack for the special ability. The reason is that several models are used at the same time.
Basically you move a kobold and declare "this one is adding to the shared attack".
Then you move the next and declare his contribution as well. And repeat as needed.
Finally you make the actual attack.

Personally I'd prefer if each model was resolved one at a time.

Random spell for cultists in general:

Running a few scenarios through my head I kinda agree that the summoning spells should be removed.
I don't mind summoning, but in a worst case scenario they keep drawing that spell and floods the room with orcs and undead. That would also give them an excuse to run and hide long enough to summon an army.
On the other hand I don't mind the strong spells. Imagine how an actual encounter would go down:

1. Heroes open a door and reveals (what is a realistic number to put in a quest? 3-5?) 4 cultists.
2. Heroes rush in and kill 2 cultists.
3. Cultists draw Cloud of Chaos. Heroes can defend immediately AND on a future turn.
4. I guess at least two heroes are able to roll a 6 in two tries.
5. Two recovered heroes attack cultists and kill one.
6. Repeat step 3-5
7. Cultists are dead.

So maybe some additional monsters get a few free hits in. So what?
This is what makes cultists fun. Easy to kill, but dangerous none the less.
What I'm asking here is: how likely is it that a pack of cultists gets to cast more than 1 spell? More than 2?
The difficulty of cultists can be adjusted by their number rather than making different spell-lists.

Chaos Dwarf
M6 | A3 | D4 | BP2 | MP2
A Chaos Dwarf adjacent to one or more Chaos Dwarves rolls 1 extra combat die in defense.

@ stat change + rewording

Beastman
M7 | A3 | D3 | BP2 | MP2
A Beastman immediately counterattacks when its Body Points are reduced to 1.

I agree with the stat changes.
The special ability is great. I like the other one as well. Tough choice! I won't mind either.
The no-move-but-power-attack makes them a constant danger all the time.
Death struggle on the other hand is guaranteed to trigger even if the beastman is killed on sight.
I would add a clause, something like: Even if it's reduced directly to zero BP the counter attack still triggers (Just more nicely worded).
Not sure if this was how you intended it to work, or if it should only actually trigger if he "survived" a a wounding attack?

Basilisk
M8 | A3 | D4 | BP3 | MP2
Instead of attacking on any turn, a Basilisk may use it's petrifying breath. This works as a Cloud of Chaos spell.
-or-
Roll 3 Attack Dice against a target the Basilisk can "see", which a Hero defends using a number of dice equal to his Mind Points. Reduce the Hero's Mind Points by 1 for each undefended skull, and he loses his next turn. A Hero is turned to stone when reduced to 0 Mind Points.

I like both these abilities (as well). Maybe it's about time to just collect them all in one post and make a vote? We definitely have a lot of good viable options at this point..

[Gold Bearer]

Chaos Cultist
M7 | A1 | D2 | BP1 | MP3
A Cultist may attempt to cast a spell rather than attack. To do so, he rolls 3 combat dice. If a black shield is rolled, a random Chaos Spell Card is drawn and he casts the spell immediately.

I'm for M7, as elite Sorcerers move 8. I like D2 as a Cultist should be tougher than a small Goblin.

M8 please. I asked about this a couple of days ago and was told this was what was agreed. M8 A2 D1 BP1 MP3 I don't mind their lowered attack so much but I'd like them to be fast. Fully armoured standard chaos warriors move seven.

Some of the base-set Chaos Spells are quite powerful; the three most egregious offenders are Cloud of Chaos, Firestorm and Lightning Bolt. Are you guys OK with the approximately 11% chance of a Cultist casting such strong area-of-effect magic (and on a per-turn basis, no less)? (Odds are about 42% to get a black shield on 3 dice, multiplied by 3 chances from 12 to draw an AoE spell = 11%.)

And we really don't want standard cultists to be more dangerous with their spells than our tzeench ones who are magic specialists. We need to get this sorted.

I strongly suggest keeping the 2 Defend dice for the kobolds.
When I whipped up these stats I was thinking about the EWP strategy options of luring heroes effectively.
Pwetty pwease, have a heart.

Then, maybe the Cultists should be the ones with just 1 Defend? They're pretty much walking spellbombs anyway. Although, since the Chaos Dwarves overlap with the Mummies (3 Attack | 4 Defend), we may as well overlap some more. There's only so many configurations of Attack | Defend | Body anyway.

I don't think we need to have any that overlap both with attack and defence.

In regards to your Quest arc with Gold Bearer, level 1 Cultists shouldn't have Cloud of Chaos, Firestorm and Lightning Bolt in their random Chaos spell deck. Also, I'd think it a good idea to remove Summon Orcs and Summon Undead. Level 2 Cultists could possibly have the whole deck to choose from, or maybe still take out the big three. Level 3 Cultists, the most powerful, could instead remove weaker spells. I'd suggest taking out Fear, Escape, and maybe Sleep, Tempest, and Ball of Flame as well.

We use determined spells for cultists. We don't have levels but we did have a rule that cultists were more effective in larger groups anywhere from three to six, giving them more spells for example, but we simplified it and that's gone. I was really sorry to see that go and I definitely think we should bring that back. What do you think Count Mohawk?

If this doesn't work well enough to suit your needs, Quest Notes could always tailor your specific spell sets to draw from. You could even trump the random draw in the notes section if you feel that is what is needed. I would personally hope some of the Quests in your arc would use the Cultist default casting ability. What that ability should be is yet to be decided upon, but I hope my example suggestions demonstrate there are ways to reconcile various elements. Better ideas are yet possible.

The most important thing is that there should be at least three cultists in the same room or corridor for them to be able to cast anything. Otherwise it makes a complete mockery of the specialist cultists rules. I don't think this is a problem though with their low stats, and it's a nice rule. I'd want it anyway..