3. HQ25 - Choose your monsters + stats

[Sjeng]

And done!

Let's go make a storyline!

[knightkrawler]

On to thread 4, then.

[Goblin-King]

Whoah! That wen't fast all of a sudden! Easy now... This was posted like? Yesterday?

First of all, good work Sjeng

A couple of concerns though...
* Are the lizardmen needed?
* Are the chaos sorcerer and fimir meargh needed - as in, do we need specific stats? Can't they just be handled in the quest notes as bosses traditionally have been?
* Are the kobolds over equipped with three special rules?
* I still prefer the "no move = heavy attack" for the beastmen. That makes the heroes need to position themselves strategically.

But yeah, all in all, everything went better than expected .

[Sjeng]

Thanks To answer your concerns:

You already killed my dear skaven. The lizardmen stay besides we need monsters that are like the goblin/orc/fimir and skeleton/zombie/mummy groups. kobold/lizardman/fimir fits that need. Onlt the chaos faction has no real fodder. But we can always use skeletons/kobols/goblins as their fodder.

We could make the mini bosses have blank AD/DD/BP. I'd leave the movement and mind on a set value.

We still need to specify the exact rules for abilites..

[knightkrawler]

I think we can discuss all those points after we established a storyline.
I already suggested that as few monster cards are to be made and as much deviations from those as possible are given in quest notes.
so there's plenty of individual choices for quest writers left with monsters, special monsters, and characters.

The lizardmen... I concur with GK, I think they are of no use whatsoever. Skinks would be like Kobolds, Saurus' would be like Fimir in almost any stat you can give them.
Plus, they don't fit in a dungeons stylewise. Alternative figures to those offered by GW? Shitty or outrageously expensive/difficult to acquire..

[MrBigB]

Your "definite" list at the bottom of your chart reads like 95% of my "best case scenario". Outstanding work

Yes, this. Very well done, bravo.

The only reason it was 95% was because I too thought the lizardmen were extraneous Other then that one small point (and honestly not a deal breaker, just feels unnecessary) I humbly vote we move on to story and/or specific monster special abilities/powers/spell decks

Onward to glory!!

[wolfie907]

I humbly vote we move on to story and/or specific monster special abilities/powers/spell decks Onward to glory!!

I agree

[Daedalus]

My modifications to Sjeng's best of Chaos list:

Chaos
Chaos Warrior[/]: Base game is fine.
Chaos Sorcerer Base game is fine.
Chaos Dwarven Warrior: M6 | A3 | D4 | BP2 | MP2 | Shield wall- 2+ adjacent Dwarves each get +1 DD (I'd up the attack and reduce the MP to bring a Dwarf closer to but below the threat of an Elven Warrior. I feel Dwarves should be competitive with Elves.)
Beastman: M7 | A3 | D3 | BP2 | MP2 | Ferocious- Immediate counter-attack when BP are reduced to 1. (A wounded beast is more dangerous. Making the extra attack conditional makes Beastmen more available as a lower end monster.)
Minotaur: M6 | A3+2 | D3 | BP 4 | MP 2 | Large Monster- Can attack any diagonal or adjacent square. Two attacks can be made against 1 or 2 opponents, but Hero defends once only. (I prefer the MB concept art by Don Kueker to be the guide, so lighter armor, a compensating BP, and dual weapons. I don't see a two-legged monster as having an effective charge, however.)

Cultist: M7 | A2 | D1 | BP1| MP3 | Possesion- A black shield defends all skulls successfully. (Powerful Sorcerers move 8 and use spells.)

Centaur: M9 | A2+2 | D3 | BP4 | MP3 | Large Monster- Can attack any diagonal or adjacent square. Two attacks can be made against 1 or 2 opponents, but Hero defends once only. Possible ability: Charge- Move from a non-adjacent/non-diagonal square, attack, then finish move through opposite square. (I prefer this brute over the Minotaur as he is powered down, yet remains MB Kueker concept art.)
Ratman: M10 | A2 | D2 | BP1 | MP3 | Diagonal attack (Why is everybody against Sjeng's Skaven Ratmen? I love me some MB Kueker concept art as a Chaos beastie and fodder.)

I'm a fan of NA rules and MB's independent direction for HQ, which means a willingness to break the GW mold. Beastmen are a great choice, as Battlemasters used them. The Minotaur is even better, as it was planned to be included in an MB expansion. My main issue is the Minotaur is such a heavy hitter, right up there with Ogres. It appears overpowered for beginning Heroes that progress only 25 Quests.

Chaos Dwarves are okay, as nasty Dwarves crop up in fantasy. Yet Dwarves also tend to come off lawful more often than not, despite the GW Chaos Dwarf race. My overall opinion is Dwarves would work better with a Dwarf expansion, much like Elves in the EQP. If Chaos Dwarves are used, I'd go with Ratmen or perhaps Hobgoblins over Cultists. Humans as monsters come off as meh in my opinion.

Forgot to mention I like Torilin's idea of Shadows being a Chaos monster. If they don't make it as such, I think a Chaos Shadow tile should at least be made with special rules in a Quest. -edit.

[Daedalus]

Modifications for the best of Dragonkin list:

Dragonkin Reptilians
Kobold: M8 | A1 | D1 | BP1 | MP1 | Gang up- Kobolds in a Hero's adjacent squares combine their attack dice for a single attack. (For Kobolds only--Fimir are scary enough on their own. As Kobolds will usually attack together, A1 isn't much of a nerf and makes for an easy combination attack. Ganging up for an 8 combat dice attack is just too much for the lowly Kobold. Spears with gang up or Slings can be added in Quest notes for special monsters.)
Lizardman Snakeman: M7 | A2 | D3 | BP1 | MP2 (I feel new stats are better than a Lizardman fluff change for Orcs. I want a reptilian to fill the gap between the swarming Kobold and the leader Fimir. Going Darkworld for visual variety.)
Fimir: Fine as is.
Fimir Meargh Swamp Hag: M6| A2| D3 | BP2 | MP4 | Fimir/Swamp spells (A Fimir Meargh is unkown outside of Warhammer, so the name change. I'd just use a Fimir or Chaos Sorcerer mini and give it special stats in the Quest notes-this worked for Kessandria. Of course, using a Swamp Hag figure would be cool for those who want one.)
Basilisk: M8 | A3 | D4 | BP3 | MP2 | Petrifying breath: works as a Cloud of Chaos spell.

And some additions:

Medusa: M6 | A2 | D3 | BP4 | MP4 | Petrification: Roll 3 Attack Dice against a target the Medusa can "see", which a Hero defends using a number of dice equal to his Mind Points. Reduce the Hero's Mind Points for each undefended skull and he loses his next turn. A Hero is turned to stone when reduced to 0 Mind Points. (Maybe the splayed legs of a Basilisk are too wide for a 1x2 base. There are also some recognition problems and fewer figures representing it. A snake-bodied Medusa fits 1x2 squares and has an HQ feel. It makes a nice boss, so maybe add some spells. Not sure if Petrification is unfair to the Barbarian and Dwarf, as they could possibly be killed in 1 turn. Probably need a Potion Flesh Restoration to compensate. -edit)

Hydra: M5 | A1x4 | D3 | BP 4 | MP2 | Multiple attacks: May attack 1 to 4 Heroes. A Hero may only defend once, no matter how many attacks are directed against him. For each Body Point reduced, a head is killed and an Attack die is removed. Regeneration: At the end of Morcar's/Zargon's turn one head may be regenerated if killed without a Fire spell, returning 1 Attack die. (The D&D/Heroscape fen hydra should fit on a 1x2 base.)

(By the way, added an edit about Shadows in the Chaos post above.)

[Sjeng]

I humbly vote we move on to story and/or specific monster special abilities/powers/spell decks Onward to glory!!

I agree

And so we move on to topic 4!