[Poll] 1. Choose your monsters for the 25th Quest Pack

[knightkrawler]

Guys, you know that my stats were just stats I'd use for the mini named as they are, mostly by GW, don't you?
Of course I wouldn't use the word Ungor. Also, I wouldn't use all those subdivisions.
But someday we'll agree on what minis best to use and those have to be represented by stats. That's what I did.

And, Stormvermin are re-skinned Fimir? Go figure!
There's only so much you can do with stats in the range of 1 through 5 and a miniature that is a medium-sized humanoid.
The stats of HQ monsters are so simple that everything is to be assigned in a logical, representative way.
How many attack dice would you give to a human-sized rat with humanoid speed and agility wielding a halberd. 7? No, 3, I think.
Or 4. Which would make the Rat Ogre obsolete for anyone wanting them.

Assigning stats to monsters follow the rules of
1) logical relations to comparable or different skill/stature/intelligence/agility sets
2) relations between each other in context of a quest (pack).

When I give a Stormvermin the stats I did I do know that it's not gonna be used in the same quest as a Fimir.
See the lines in my stats post? They are between the different themes that are pondered here.
Fimir/Kobold/bog, Skaven, Beastmen.

a) These themes are not to be mixed. I thought that should be pretty clear.
b) I made stats for anything that came to mind within the respective theme. Not everything is to be used. Just like, oh I have this Ungor figure with a bow. What stats would I give him? And this Gor with two hand weapons?

I am pretty sure that some of you will agree with me that making stats for a miniature you're holding in your hands unbiasedly and knowing established stats of other miniatures is the easiest thing to do when designing anything HeroQuest. The range of 1-5 attack dice for a humanoid figure in relation to its size, for example, almost FORCES you to give this or that exact number of dice..

[Patroclus]

At first thnx for your work KK

Skaven (Clanrat)
Body: 1, Mind: 2, Attack: 2, Defend: 2, Move: 8
Special rule: equipped with Sling (1 attack die ranged)

Body: 1, Mind: 1, Attack: 2, Defend: 2, Move: 12
Special rule: equipped with Sling (1 attack die ranged)
These are the "official" stats from white dwarf. I think there is no reason to change them.

Stormvermin
Body: 1, Mind: 2, Attack: 3, Defend: 3, Move: 6

I believe this is what AHQ called “skaven champions”. But it is better to be closer to chaos warriors(A4/D4/B3) than orcs(A3/D2/B1) or fimirs(A3/D3/B2). Also, because they are wielding halberds, we could give them A3+diagonal attacks. So I prefer:
Body: 2(like fimir), Mind: 3(like chaos), Attack: 3(like orc/fimir), Defend: 4(like chaos…they wearing armor), Move: 6(like fimir) + diagonal attack
They look too close to Mummy (A3/D4/B2) but they are vulnerable to magic and have diagonal attacks.

Rat Ogre
Body: 3, Mind: 1, Attack: 4, Defend: 5, Move: 7
Special rule: two attacks per turn. If both are made against one and the same hero, he may only defend against the first.

The "official" stats for Rat Ogres are B1/M1/A3/D3/Move8. But the new Rat Ogres are huge. So, I agree that we should do some changes. Body: 4 (like Ogre), Mind: 1 (the official), Attack: 4 (like chaos), Defend: 5(like Ogre), Move: 8 (the official), could be a good alternative of a lighter (less Attack) ogre warrior.

Grey Seer
Body: 3, Mind: 6, Attack: 4, Defend: 4, Move: 5
Spell set: 6 spells to be made or picked

The official stats of White Seer are B4/M1/A3/D3/Move6. Like a fimir with 4 Body points, which is a good thing because wizards are always the first target, so it’s nice to have high Body. The official Mind is too low, I can’t understand why, but because I am a lover of official things I wouldn’t change anything. Though the rule about stealing spells from Heroes could be very annoying so I believe a set of 6 (I think 3 are enough, but no problem) cards it’s the best.

So, If we will do a second poll I think it is better if we put exactly what each of us wanted. It won’t be a problem if, for example, we have 10 choices. But we should know exactly what we are voting. My selection is known...
Skaven (aka Clanrat)/Skaven Champion (aka Stormvermin)/Rat Ogre/White Seer (or Grey, I don’t know the difference)

...but I could give a vote to beastmen too.

[knightkrawler]

I agree on some points there. Compromises are in order.
I just didn't take "official" stats into consideration as in most cases I have my own minis in mind. The difference between 1990 and today's GW minis considered for HQ is huge, as you exemplified with the Rat Ogre.
The newest Rat Ogre also would take two squares.

For the movement of Clanrats: 12 is too much, as heroes simply cannot escape, not even in theory.
Either they should have those 12 movement OR a sling. A combination of both is too much in my opinion.

The stormvermin I kept close in stats to the Clanrats, simply because there's not a huge difference in minis for both, other than better equipment and armor.
As Sjeng mentioned, not both are gonna be used, but rather one of those versions. Weak rats or Strong rats?
i just made stats for both.

Also, I forgot the Gutter Runner version, which, come to think of it, would have exactly the stats you gave the Clanrats, including Sling AND 12 movement.

And really, that first draft was 15 minutes, statting while typing, so no big deal. They were meant to be the starting points..

[Patroclus]

...
The difference between 1990 and today's GW minis considered for HQ is huge, as you exemplified with the Rat Ogre.
The newest Rat Ogre also would take two squares.
...

On white dwarf #134, shows the big minis (trolls and rat ogres) to take only one square and the base is just taking some space from the adjacent squares. Do you believe it is possible to do it with the new rat ogres? Is it possible to put a skaven adjacent to a rat ogre as the picture bellow? or to put a rat ogre in a corridor?

ps: if anyone could take a photo it could be very useful
.

[Goblin-King]

On white dwarf #134, shows the big minis (trolls and rat ogres) to take only one square and the base is just taking some space from the adjacent squares. Do you believe it is possible to do it with the new rat ogres? Is it possible to put a skaven adjacent to a rat ogre as the picture bellow? or to put a rat ogre in a corridor?

No way that is possible! Even a small round base is slightly too big for HQ!
Next step is the 40 mm base and now we're just getting crazy! I don't know how they imagined this were supposed to be working on an actual board.
Another point is that it can't move through doors! A 1x2 base can maneuver through doors, corners and down corridors, but not a 2x2.

The biggest thing we should ever use is 1x2. I just can't see anything bigger being playable..

[knightkrawler]

I concur with G-K.
The new rat ogres fit perfectly on 1x2 bases. Very splayed out pose, looking to the side. At least those in the Isle of Blood box..

[Sjeng]

I'm using the D&D ogres as rat ogres. 1x1 tiles
and bigger than clanrats.
3BP should suffice. they are not actual ogres after all..

[Goblin-King]

In the spirit of the MP discussion going on in the other thread, how about a magical creature oriented pack?

Beholders (or eye-beasts jeeze whatever) - they are even in Legacy of Sorasil
Imps
Displacer Beasts
Basilisks

you name'em..

[Teldurn]

Beholders: You can call them Gazers. I'm not sure if the term "beholder" to mean this specific eye-beast is trademarked by WotC or whatever, but there's an option, if it is.

Otherwise, I like the idea of magical creatures. Here's a few more suggestions to throw out and see which sticks
Bulette
Stirge
Hippogriff
Hydra
Behir (good for that Kobold connection, if it's decided to go that way).

[torilen]

The term beholder is a copyright, I'm pretty sure. Since we're not selling this, I would guess we could
rename the creature. I would be careful, though - the design of the monster itself may be trademarked,
and I would be hesitant to use it at all.
I've seen a lot of third party monster books, and none of them have anything even similar to the beholder,
if I remember correctly. There could be a reason for that..