4. HQ25 - Story Arc discussion

[Gold Bearer]

The Barbarian should also start with a dagger, but he should nevertheless have 2 AD that way. He then keeps his fighting advantage when all heroes are later equipped the same.
There MUST be differences, I think.

I really don't think we should get in to altering the standard heroes rules at all. Anyway that's just far too much of an advantage for the barbarian. If the extra weapons I've suggested are used that gives him an advantage without changing the rules because he's the only one who can use all of the weapons and there's even one just for him, that's enough.

Okay, guys. Maybe my workload has addled by comprehension abilities, but I've read through this thread (and the couple other ones linked throughout), and for some reason I can't seem to make heads or tails of it. There seems to be a bit of waffling back and forth.

Can someone please lay out the facts of what we have set in stone thus far. This will help me figure out where I can help out with stuff. Thanks.

That's mostly my fault I think. Basically nothing I'm on about has been agreed on, I'm just throwing about some new ideas and adapting the stuff I've already made that I think could work well. I might put all posts I've made in this thread in the last couple of days (apart from the quest ideas) together and use it as an opening post of a new topic.

Room 5: OPTIONAL!
The 4 Ogres from Ogre Horde (chaos enforcements?)
The 4 wizards from WoM
Giant Spider, Rat, Bat

Actually I was under the impression that we used game system + new monsters?
The point is that the quests should be centered around the new monsters.
We are not suddenly dragging other expansions into this one?
No other expansion has used monsters from another expansion (I don't count AotOh and MotM as they were exclusive to EU/NA)
Per default I only expect people to own the game system.
If they want to play this they need to get minis. The number of minis needed shouldn't be boosted by just allowing all official material.

tl;dr: NO OGRES!

I was under that impression, too. I thought we decided on game system + very few select new monsters (that was the point of the previous thread) to accomodate for many of us only owning the game system.

Well you had agreed to use stuff from any of the expansions right from the start so no one's suddenly dragging other expansions into this one. I think doing it the way I said could be the best way to handle it because if they're isolated to a couple of quests they can be optional for people who own those (or one of those) expansions.

[Teldurn]

Side note: In regards to making vector files, using the inkscape tutorial is one way; the other way is using Illustrator's Live Trace tool.

You volunteer? I really don't care to learn all this if someone else can easily do it in 5 minutes. I'll provide the images, someone with know-how just needs to convert them

Maybe! In theory, the Live Trace method should work for what we're looking for, but I've not actually practiced with it. But I'll tell you what. You send me one raster image and I will try to convert it to vector and see how it looks. If it works, I volunteer to do the rest. If not, someone else will have to take up the mantel and do it the inkscape way.

EDITED TO ADD: I also just remembered that Heroscribe has a step-by-step process to include new icons into the program. Unfortunately, the technical aspect of it is simply far beyond my ken.

[Baylor_OgreBane]

GK if you need any arty help then I am on had to pick up some of the slack, image editing or anything.

[Goblin-King]

The Barbarian should also start with a dagger, but he should nevertheless have 2 AD that way. He then keeps his fighting advantage when all heroes are later equipped the same.
There MUST be differences, I think.

I really don't think we should get in to altering the standard heroes rules at all. Anyway that's just far too much of an advantage for the barbarian. If the extra weapons I've suggested are used that gives him an advantage without changing the rules because he's the only one who can use all of the weapons and there's even one just for him, that's enough.

Agree. I get the reasoning to have the heroes start of with more humble equipment, but I prefer just having the normal heroes.

Okay, guys. Maybe my workload has addled by comprehension abilities, but I've read through this thread (and the couple other ones linked throughout), and for some reason I can't seem to make heads or tails of it. There seems to be a bit of waffling back and forth.

Can someone please lay out the facts of what we have set in stone thus far. This will help me figure out where I can help out with stuff. Thanks.

That's mostly my fault I think. Basically nothing I'm on about has been agreed on, I'm just throwing about some new ideas and adapting the stuff I've already made that I think could work well. I might put all posts I've made in this thread in the last couple of days (apart from the quest ideas) together and use it as an opening post of a new topic.

Yeah, this thread is getting messy! Let's keep it story related. SJEEEEEEENG! Come clean up Gold Bearer's mess!!!

Room 5: OPTIONAL!
The 4 Ogres from Ogre Horde (chaos enforcements?)
The 4 wizards from WoM
Giant Spider, Rat, Bat

Actually I was under the impression that we used game system + new monsters?
The point is that the quests should be centered around the new monsters.
We are not suddenly dragging other expansions into this one?
No other expansion has used monsters from another expansion (I don't count AotOh and MotM as they were exclusive to EU/NA)
Per default I only expect people to own the game system.
If they want to play this they need to get minis. The number of minis needed shouldn't be boosted by just allowing all official material.

tl;dr: NO OGRES!

I was under that impression, too. I thought we decided on game system + very few select new monsters (that was the point of the previous thread) to accomodate for many of us only owning the game system.

Well you had agreed to use stuff from any of the expansions right from the start so no one's suddenly dragging other expansions into this one. I think doing it the way I said could be the best way to handle it because if they're isolated to a couple of quests they can be optional for people who own those (or one of those) expansions.

if I recall correctly: The free for all official expansion model was at a much earlier point and later scrapped.
With the monster thread it was implicit that we used a limited monster list. Why else spend so much time on monsters if we already had a huge arsenal?
I seem to remember much crying over skaven because White Dwarf expansions, among others, were excluded.

*****

@ Knightkrawler: I edited my earlier post to answer your request on some assistance for your chapter. Many posts were made while I edited

[knightkrawler]

The Barbarian should also start with a dagger, but he should nevertheless have 2 AD that way. He then keeps his fighting advantage when all heroes are later equipped the same.
There MUST be differences, I think.

I really don't think we should get in to altering the standard heroes rules at all. Anyway that's just far too much of an advantage for the barbarian. If the extra weapons I've suggested are used that gives him an advantage without changing the rules because he's the only one who can use all of the weapons and there's even one just for him, that's enough.

My idea is not changing any rule. What it does is break down the attack stat of the barbarian and the effect of weapons on him.
That 2 AD with dagger refers to the idea of giving the heroes only daggers for starters.
Normal heroes would mean the barbarian is played like in the NA version, but instead of a broadsword he wields a shortsword and retains 1 AD on all weapons, cause he's the freakin' barbarian, a better fighter than the other heroes.
That way you don't need to make a new weapon exclusively for him.
It's really just a question of taste.

[Gold Bearer]

Yeah, this thread is getting messy! Let's keep it story related. SJEEEEEEENG! Come clean up Gold Bearer's mess!!!

I didn't know I was going to get carried away okay.

if I recall correctly: The free for all official expansion model was at a much earlier point and later scrapped.
With the monster thread it was implicit that we used a limited monster list. Why else spend so much time on monsters if we already had a huge arsenal?
I seem to remember much crying over skaven because White Dwarf expansions, among others, were excluded.

Yea but not official expansions. They've always been in I think. At least if I make a couple of quests just for those expansions then they can be left out of the other quests and we get the best of both worlds. Just an idea.

The Barbarian should also start with a dagger, but he should nevertheless have 2 AD that way. He then keeps his fighting advantage when all heroes are later equipped the same.
There MUST be differences, I think.

I really don't think we should get in to altering the standard heroes rules at all. Anyway that's just far too much of an advantage for the barbarian. If the extra weapons I've suggested are used that gives him an advantage without changing the rules because he's the only one who can use all of the weapons and there's even one just for him, that's enough.

My idea is not changing any rule. What it does is break down the attack stat of the barbarian and the effect of weapons on him.

It's giving him an extra attack dice and making him way too overpowered. It's fine if he's also restricted on armour and/or missile weapons but again, that's changing his rules and turning him into a different character.

[MrBigB]

My original thought was to keep the Hero's stats the same as the opening of the original game. When they loose their weapons at the beginning if the 3rd quest they would be essentially bare hand fighting for a very brief time until they locate the weapon rack nearby and regain their respective weapons. As for stats I was thinking something along the following:
Elf/Wizard have 1A, 1D, but have their respective spells.
Dwarf has 1A, 2D.
Barbarian has 2A, 1D.
All heroes wake up with -1 HP from their normal max.

Again this part was meant to be a small section to spice up an otherwise fairly standard escape quest, and to introduce the disarming mechanic (primarily for the dwarf).

for the beer fund

[Gold Bearer]

It's just that it's exactly what happens in one of the original quests. That's why I thought of using daggers and a shortsword for the barbarian to start with and then rather than just getting the standard equipment back from the weapons rack they'd get it for the first time.

[MrBigB]

It's just that it's exactly what happens in one of the original quests. That's why I thought of using daggers and a shortsword for the barbarian to start with and then rather than just getting the standard equipment back from the weapons rack they'd get it for the first time.

Ooooooohhh now I get what you're saying. Sorry, I mis-understood.

[gootchute]

(Double post, not sure how I managed that... )

Wow, 5 pages to catch up on... I'll be right back!

EDIT: OK most of that was unrelated skill and weapon discussion.

Chapter 2
Q4-Q8: path 1: follow the dragonkin lead: (Knightkrawler, gootchute and sajungzak: My ideas revolve around Kobold Dragonpriests and Dragonshields flooding the swamps and convincing the Fimir that the Great Wyrm is supposed to be awakened somewhere deeper in the bog where even the Fimir who worship dragons in general and the Great Wyrm in particular didn't think it is.
Of course, the two factions work together grudgingly to find the resting place, all under the eye of Morcar who wants the body of the Great Wyrm as a vassal all for himself (his essence), sending his chaos henchmen to steal the surprisingly young and little dragon thingie.
Morcar finds out it fell mystically asleep as a mere hatchling (or was "convinced" to do so) and abducts it into the chaos wastes for the beastmen and chaos dwarfs who have been called from their own industrious purposes in their own bloody brass city to watch over it and for their practitioners of magic and science to find ways to accomplish Morcar's plan.)

(I'm not really sure if this is thought as a prelude to a bigger quest or just it's own single chapter...)
Having a plot revolve around awakening a "Great Wyrm" and not getting to fight a dragon is not optimal (Dragons are NOT a part of the monster list!). Thoughts on this?
Perhaps it could instead revolve around a dragon artifact? Fang of Bloodwing or whatever. Or the dragonling has already been killed for its blood which is a potent magical ingredient in a magical ritual.

I agree, having the promise of a dragon but no actual dragon takes the wind out of the story.

Are we going to use the trope of " combine the 4 artifacts to destroy the big bad" as Sjeng (I think it was his idea originally) and I have suggested? If so will they be found in quests 21-24 or found in the chapters?

Instead of messing with reformatting my previous quest outline, I'll just make a new one(the numbering got all messed up on the first). I have taken all of the more fleshed out ideas and did a copy/paste mash-up of my favorite plots.


Introduction and Greenskin Arc

Q1: The heroes are just ordinary travelers from their respective homelands who just happen to be in the village. They don't even start the same place on the board, but in the end they meet up and find out they work together well. (or start with the heroes already known to each other and drinking at Yee Olde Inn, both are great ideas so I am torn. We could always use Yee Olde Inn in a later quest...)

Q2: Mentor, also "happens" to be in the village. He quickly spots the heroes as the only survivors that can actually take care of business. He tells them to go kill the orc raiders and free any prisoners. Following the trail they are ambushed as they camp in an abandoned fort. They must not allow any of their ambushers to escape and alert the others of their pursuit! (interesting condition which can alter the difficulty of the following quest depending of how many monsters escape the board)

Q3: The heroes tracks the orcs back to their lair and slay them and free the prisoners, but find evidence that this is just a vanguard. Back in the village Mentor proclaims them heroes: They are destined for great deeds! And that is the new beginning of HEROQUEST!

Q3: Continuing to chase the trail of the orcs, the heroes confront a goblin shaman who pleads for his life as they are about to kill him. He tells them that the orcs are fleeing some more powerful force in the mountains, and just assaulting defenseless villages to boost their broken egos. The heroes learn where the orc leader is located just before the shaman unleashes a spell to escape (this will take some clever quest notes for this exposition dump and ensuring the goblins plot armor works)

Q4: The heroes find the main orc stronghold. The goblin shaman is found chained to a rack and branded traitor. The heroes can choose to free him and he will pretend to help but turn on the heroes as soon as the warlord is found. Or they can leave him to his fate. Either way the heroes eventually succeed in killing the warlord and ending the raids. The remaining orcs scatter and the heroes are left pondering what could have forced them out of their territory. The only clue they have is a strange artifact which seems to (insert ability here) those who wear it. Definitely not orc in origin

(ok a got a little carried away with the shaman sub plot, take it or leave it)

Kobold/Fimir Arc

Q5: Some Marshland farmers are reporting raids by strange looking goblins. A local noble's daughter has been kidnapped. The heroes go rescue her and in the process find Kobolds and surprisingly, a Fimir raiding party. The girl is being held prisoner for some unknown reason. The heroes rescue her from their clutches. She recounts how they have been oddly respectful and reverent in their treatment of her

Q7: The kobold and fimir alliance doesn't bode well! Mentor suspects they might be looking for the an ancient dragon relic known as the Scale of Teshnirax. It was last known to be in in the estate of Burgomaster Raulf (or whatever, names subject to change). The mansions is already being ransacked when the heroes arrive. A handful of guards and the Noble are holed up on the east wing, the heroes must fight to get to them before they are killed. As it turns out the dragon relic is already gone. The Noble clues them into the legend surrounding it. Apparently it was the only remaining piece of a heretical dragon destroyed by his own kind for trying to mix dragon and human bloodlines. The kobolds (wrongly) believe it to be their origin and it is holy to them. The fimir, already practicing vile breeding rituals see it as another way to prolong their races existence. The scale is the reagent for this dark ritual, along with the human host.

Q: In order to complete the ritual the ritual must be made upon the tomb of the Hero who helped the dragons defeat Teshnirax, with his own blood (the girl turns out to be his descendent). It is buried deep in the swamps. The tomb is crawling with undead which the Kobolds and Fimir have awakened and are in the process of fighting. (simple monster vs. monster rules I know how to make it work, will elaborate more in the quest I write). The girl is already rescued, so the heroes must kill the Fimir leader so the scheme is abandoned.

Q8: Tying up lose ends. The plots have been foiled, but the Kobold shaman remains. Track him back to his cavern and finish him so the knowledge of the scale remains buried in the past. Here the heroes discover that Zargon is secretly manipulating them both to create a human dragon hybrid body to manifest his greatest servant into (this character to be elaborated on in the final quests of this pack). The Kobold has chaos warrior body guards and letters with Zargon's seal. ( I dislike any plot which even hints at the heroes coming into direct conflict with the main villain, hence the change from Zargon himself to his greatest minion)

Beastmen / Chaos Dwarf Arc

Q9: Forces which drove the orcs out of the mountain are revealed to be amassing in the Dark Castle. Travel through the ancient ruins to get to Dark Castle. Ambushed by beastmen and fight your way through.

Q10: Secret entrance to Dark Castle. STEALTH QUEST! Some mechanic where monsters can somehow call for assistance if not killed quickly. Exit is guarded by... Chaos Dwarfs! Dun dun duuun!

Q11: Now it's time to kill some chaos dwarfs and figure out what they are up to. Find chaos forge: They are preparing for war! Free several prisoners which reveal they were meant to be sacrificed.
(new printable: Prison cell door? Could be useful in a lot of quests, even outside this pack)

Q12: The sacrifices can only mean summoning of powerful evil magic. The chamber of sacrifice can only be entered by possessing two relics guarded by powerful chaos dwarf sorcerers. Get the relics and gain entrance to the final confrontation.

Q13: First half: the heroes are too late and a demon has been summoned. Kill it. Second half: Escape the castle as it begins to collapse! )

Undetermined arc (undead? skaven?)
Q14:
Q15:
Q16:
Q17:

18: THE BIG REVEAL... Is their even a big reveal at this point? I think the idea of Zargon and summoning is firmly laid out already.
19: Captured by Big Bad's minions (equipment returned in quest)
20: City under siege
21: Kill the lieutenant to end the siege (he wields a familiar weapon...)
22: Get info on big bad's weakness, discover it was the 4 McGuffins you found in the various chapters earlier.
23: Quest to get the 5th artifact to unlock the power of the first 4
24: Part 1 of finale
25: Part 2 of finale

So the way I have written the Fimir/Kobold Chapter, it feeds into the Chaos Dwarf Chapter. Zargon is pursuing several ways to summon great evil. After his plot in the swamp is foiled he focuses on the Chaos Dwarves. They have their own summoning in mind though...

EDITS: So many typos