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Need some painting help please!

Tips and tricks for painting miniatures and anything else.

Need some painting help please!

Postby StratosVX » Monday July 18th, 2016 12:23am

Ok, so I am trying to start painting so I can hopefully participate in the exchange this year. However, I am running into a problem and I hope someone can give me some advice. I'll outline my steps so you know what I've done. First, I gave the minis a bath in Simple Green then rinsed them and let them dry. I then used the Citadel black primer. After that, I gave most of the orc a few layers of green base coat to cover the primer. I was going to try to paint the Orc's tunic yellow, but even after several layers, I could see the green base coat on most of the tunic. A former co-worker of mine said yellow is a pain to work with and that you need to start with something other than yellow (like orange or light brown) then use several layers of yellow on top of it. So I figured I'd switch colors so I can at least see the tunic done. However, even using orange, the paint fills in the valleys of the tunic leaving the base coat of green showing through on the ridges. I've got about 8 or 9 layers of paint on this thing and it still won't cover the ridges. I tried not thinning the paint so much on another mini, but the paint seems to stick to the valleys so thick that I lose some detail, and yet it still won't cover the ridges. Any ideas what I'm doing wrong? I am using an Army Painter starter kit for the paints. Also, this mini is getting another Simple Green bath so I can start over once I get this figured out, so no this is not what the final piece will look like. I just want to get this issue resolved before I paint another piece.

Image

Another issue I'm having is with the skull on the Orc's belt. If I thin the paint, the paint runs off the skull an on to the belt. If I don't thin the paint much, the paint fills in the details on the skull leaving me with a color glob and no details. I'm guessing the problems I'm having are related but if not, I'm hoping someone can help with this one too.


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Re: Need some painting help please!

Postby Anderas » Monday July 18th, 2016 1:37am

Two problems:

Your base color shouldn't be black only.
Your brush is too full.

First Problem:
If you spray a light color from above the model on the black base color, you will have a bright base that is getting taker in the recesses.spray paint is the key. It is a lot more work if you base coat with a brush.

A bright base is important for bright colors like yellow, orange, red or even bright green. On a dark base you can add millimeters of paint and it will still not be bright yellow.

That your color is running away is a problem of having too much of it on the brush. Try not to load more than half of the brush with color, and paint on dry models only. Then it should normally not run away but stay where you paint it. In combination with a bright base, it should appear neatly yellow after the first layer, latest after the second layer.

A wet palette is very helpful for that, cheap and quickly made. It takes only an old plastic box, a sponge and baking paper and some water. It helps getting the paint under control and helps when you mix paints.


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Re: Need some painting help please!

Postby Goblin-King » Monday July 18th, 2016 1:56am

Ok, my advice in no particular order:

* Switch to white primer. I find it somewhat easier to work with in general (especially for beginners). On something like that orc black doesn't really help you. Rather the black shines through the wrong places.
* Be careful when you paint an area like an arm. Don't just carelessly splash green on the tunic. Sure you can paint it over, but it's easier not having to.
* White is usually good at covering things up. Consider painting any splashes over with white before applying your yellow layer.
* On fabric the dark shade of yellow is brown, not orange. Actually something a bit like the brown you used for the shoes doesn't look like a bad choice. "Light Leather".
* Get a better yellow! I know we are supposed to hate GW, but Iyanden Dark Sun Foundation covers really well. I'm sure there are other, but this is the one I personally know. It's more of a sandy yellow, but I think it looks great for orc tunics.
* Maybe you thin your paint a bit too much? Dip the brush in water. Wipe once across a tissue. Dip in paint. Wipe slightly on tissue. Apply on miniature. Repeat. More or less... It's a balance act.
* +1 for creating a wet palette


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Re: Need some painting help please!

Postby StratosVX » Monday July 18th, 2016 2:20am

Thanks guys. I'll have to try some of this. I have been using a wet palette. Every thread I've seen on here suggests using one so I made sure I had one before I started painting. I also have white primer so I will try that. Is there any instance where black primer would be preferred?

Goblin-King wrote:Maybe you thin your paint a bit too much? Dip the brush in water. Wipe once across a tissue. Dip in paint. Wipe slightly on tissue. Apply on miniature. Repeat. More or less... It's a balance act.

This is actually very helpful. I haven't seen anything that says how much to water the paints down so I've been guessing at this. Also, I'm not very artistic so I don't have prior painting experience. This gives me a good starting point.


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Re: Need some painting help please!

Postby Goblin-King » Monday July 18th, 2016 2:28am

For beginners I'd say use black primer if the model has a lot of black clothing (assassin) or lots of metal armor (chaos warrior).

The thing about paint is that layers shine through. This goes for both paintings and miniatures. Even though you think you apply a covering layer, the previous layer still gives a tint.
For a natural skin color you would give a layer of either green or purple, then apply the skin tone on top of that.


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Re: Need some painting help please!

Postby knightkrawler » Monday July 18th, 2016 3:12am

My opinion on primer:
Black amnd white primer both have their merits, so I use them both. How?

I spray the whole model black. Not too heavily, but so it covers the whole model.
Primer doesn't have to cover everything in theory, because the paint will stick to a light dusting, too. But here I cover all because I want the shadows covered.

I let the black dry completely and then spray over it with white primer from a 45° angle from the top from all sides (in a circle) to give it a preliminary zenithal highlighting.
The model is grey now, you could say, with a little black from the bottom and a little white on the tops.
That shows me where to put the deepest shadows and the lightest highlights on the model.

Now every base color can be slapped on with regualr techniques if I prefer that, giving the model a solid basecoat and establishing the shadows and highlights later, in layering steps or whatever technique you use.
Or I can glaze the colors with very thin layers, keeping this preliminary shading and highlighting underneath a film of basecoat as deep and as high as I want to.

You can replace black and white primers by any dark and light spray if you want to, like if you have a brown and a bone color from Army Painter, that's fine.

For your yellow problem, it is a valid way to use a brown and a bone or white primer spray and then glaze/paint over the yellow, keeping the shadows and highlighting from the priming.
Others have presented other valid ways.

On using yellow (or any other different color):
I lay out my basecoats in general with a brush as big and as flat as I can afford to (on non-detail areas, establishing areas this way, refining then with a smaller brush around the edges).
The reason: if I use a flat brush, size, say 4 or even 6, I don't have to thin the paint with more than just what I get when I dip the brush in water, wipe it off on a paper towel lightly and then mix the remains into the paint on the wet palette; there's no recipe for this. Now I can work and stab the paint into recesses and really move it around, and I can do it in several "layers" if I need to.
Mind you, that that's only valid for basecoats.

Here's another tip video on yellow I liked very much because of a real sense of innoivation in technique:
HQ - Heroes & Villains (Dropbox-download link) https://www.dropbox.com/sh/jgj0kzsys9w38oh/AAA_VEHx6vMv4HKRX7IiOWTFa?dl=0
Feedback http://forum.yeoldeinn.com/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=3560
Gallery http://forum.yeoldeinn.com/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=1972&hilit=knightkrawler+gallery&start=200
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Re: Need some painting help please!

Postby StratosVX » Monday July 18th, 2016 12:54pm

Goblin King, thanks for the info on skin use colors. I've applied the flesh color to a mini I had tried painting before (which got stripped so I could try again) and I really did not like the color of the skin after I was done. I'll try mixing up some purple for one side of that mini and I'll try the other side green (to see a side-by-side end result of what the two look like). Hopefully I'll be able to try that tonight after work.

KK, I'll try that way of priming my minis. Anderas suggested something similar and I have seen that in another tutorial, it was just never explained as to why you do that (not in the one I saw anyway). The minis I was going to test my skills on are all primed black so I'll just take them out for a quick touch up with white. That video is pretty helpful too. The downside is that I have limited colors and not a lot of extra money to go into paints right now so I need to mix up my own with what I have. But that also gives me experience in that area I guess.


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Re: Need some painting help please!

Postby knightkrawler » Monday July 18th, 2016 4:45pm

StratosVX wrote:I need to mix up my own with what I have. But that also gives me experience in that area I guess.


That need is the best that can happen to an aspiring painter.
The things you learn by just mixing together different colors where you just don't know before what's gonna happen...
I've said it before and I'll say it again: it's an invaluable lesson that a magenta and a medium green make a beautiful gray.
HQ - Heroes & Villains (Dropbox-download link) https://www.dropbox.com/sh/jgj0kzsys9w38oh/AAA_VEHx6vMv4HKRX7IiOWTFa?dl=0
Feedback http://forum.yeoldeinn.com/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=3560
Gallery http://forum.yeoldeinn.com/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=1972&hilit=knightkrawler+gallery&start=200
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