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Japanese HeroQuest: Screen Translation

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Re: Japanese HeroQuest: Screen Translation

Postby HispaZargon » Tuesday July 27th, 2021 5:06pm

Hi, everybody.

Ok, so here we have the content of the original back of the HQ Japanese Edition's "Demon King" screen:

ja-system-screen-back_cropped.jpg

I have also made a PDF with it, adding a copy of the front face of a EU screen, which should be exactly the same in Japanese version:

HQ_Japanese_Screen_1991_[JAP]_[RAW-VERSION].pdf
Edited message: Previously attached file HQ_Japanese_Screen_1991_[JAP]_[RAW-VERSION].pdf has an updated version in this post.

Well, picture resolution is quite better than nothing, but picture-to-text conversor software seems not to be enough powerful to correctly extract/convert all the Japanese characters attending to this picture quality. I think my standard software has been able to convert around 75% of the characters so, in order to extract all the original text, I have had to investigate a little bit (WIkipedia...) about Japanese language grammar, make several cross checks between the picture and the Rulebook's original Japanese text and also check with Google Translator if the few missing characters I was 'inventing' had sense or not.

After those tasks, I am glad to share with you my conclusions:


JAPANESE TEXT EXTRACTED FROM THE CENTRAL ZONE OF THE SCREEN'S BACK:

(第2章: クエスト4) 以降で使うもの

落とし穴
 トラップサーチで発見されるか、勇者が落とし穴のマスを通過すると、ゲーム盤上に操れる。
 落とし穴は障害物としてゲーム盤上に残る。ごのマスを通過することはできない。
 落とし穴に落ちた勇者はBPを1ポイント失う。
 落とし穴の中からサーチすることはできない、
 落とし穴の中で攻撃や防御をする場合, 通常よりも、Cダイスを 1個少なく振る。
 落とし穴はジャンプすることができる。(ルールブック15ページの細)

クラッシュ
 トラップサーチで発見されるか、勇者がクラッシュのマスを通過すると、ゲーム盤上に操れる。
 クラッシュは障害物としてゲーム盤上に残る。ごのマスを通過することはできない。
 クラッシュを作動させた勇者は、BPを2ポイント失い、もと来た方向に1マス戻される。戻る移動が空いていないとさ、その勇者は死に。

トラップの解線
ドワーフは1回の移動中、トラップに面するマスに止まら、トラップをひとつだけ 解除することができる。(詳しいことはルールブック16ページの細)


GOOGLE TRANSLATOR RAW TRANSLATION:

(Chapter 2: Quest 4) What to use later

Pit
 If it is found in a trap search or if a hero passes through a pit, it can be manipulated on the game board.
 The pit remains on the game board as an obstacle. You cannot pass through your square.
 A brave man who falls into a pit loses 1 point of BP.
 You can't search through the pits,
 When attacking or defending in a pit, he rolls one less C-dice than usual.
 Pit can jump. (Details on page 15 of the rule book)

Crash
 If it is found by trap search or if the hero passes the crash square, it can be manipulated on the game board.
 The crash remains on the game board as an obstacle. You cannot pass through your square.
 The hero who activated the crash loses 2 points of BP and is returned 1 square in the original direction. The hero died when there was no room to move back.

Trap disconnection
During a single move, the dwarf can stop at the square facing the trap and unlock only one trap. (Details on page 16 of the rule book)



MY BEST GUESS TRANSLATION ACCORDING TO THE STYLE OF THE ALREADY TRANSLATED RULEBOOK v.1.1:

(To be used from Chapter 2, Quest 4)

Pitfall
 It appears on the board when either found by a Trap Search, or when a hero passes through the pitfall.
 The pitfall stays on the board as an obstacle. Pitfalls may not be passed through.
 A hero that falls in a pitfall loses 1 BP.
 You cannot conduct a Search while in the pitfall.
 When attacking or defending from in a pitfall, use one CD less than usual.
 The pitfall can be jumped. (More details on page 15 of the Rules of Play)

Crush
 It appears on the board when either found by a Trap Search, or when a hero passes through the crush square.
 The crush stays on the board as an obstacle. The crush may not be passed through.
 The hero that activates a crush loses 2 BP and is sent back 1 square in the direction he came from. The hero dies if there are no open squares to move back.

Trap disable
During its movement, the Dwarf can stop at the adjacent square of only one trap and disable it. (More details on page 16 of the Rules of Play)



Additionally, I have also extracted and translated the text below the rock picture:

岩のマーカー
(行き止まり)

Rock tile
(Dead end)



The rest of the screen texts belong to furniture, etc. which translation is obvious according to the rulebook.


Comments are welcome.
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Last edited by HispaZargon on Thursday September 9th, 2021 5:08pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: Japanese HeroQuest: Screen Translation

Postby Kurgan » Wednesday July 28th, 2021 4:04pm

Imagining printing out a high quality PDF of this with the translation onto foam core or chipboard.


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Re: Japanese HeroQuest: Screen Translation

Postby iKarith » Thursday July 29th, 2021 4:25am

When we get there, hopefully we can get decent quality pics of the Japanese stuff like that, even if not "original" so that the stuff can be recreated if not scanned.
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Re: Japanese HeroQuest: Screen Translation

Postby HispaZargon » Thursday July 29th, 2021 5:01am

Hi, the idea I have for the following days is creating one enough quality translated version of the screen. I will take as master base the Spanish screen already in the Inn, which is basically equal to the UK original version and it has good resolution, and I will make all the necesary adaptations to match as accurate as posible with the Japanese Edition screen until we could have some day a better quality scan of the original.

However I have a question about the following English terms that appear in the translated text of the screen but also were written in the translated rulebook:

Crush / Crushing : We have used those terms in both rulebook and screen translations to talk about the Falling block trap (pages 15 & 16 of the translated rulebook). Well, are them synonyms, or each one should be used in different context? What do they exactly mean? Do you think it would be better to replace those words by "Falling block" since it is the term used in all UK and NA versions? In my opinion I prefer this last option but what do you think?

Pit / Pitfalls : Similar question, I see in all UK and NA rulebooks that these traps are called "Pit Trap" so I think it should be translated in that way instead of "pitfall".

Please, could anyone guide me on this? Any suggestion? (Remember that I am not a Uk English native speaker)


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Re: Japanese HeroQuest: Screen Translation

Postby Kurgan » Thursday July 29th, 2021 11:13am

As with some other things, I would say keep it consistent. I like the "flavor" of the Japanese version using slightly different words for things familiar in the EU/NA versions.

"Crush Trap" would be a nice compromise, or maybe "Crusher." Crushing is what the Falling Block Trap does, after all (the actual tile isn't of a block or rubble in this version but the literal falling boulder that the other versions use in the quest map icon).

Calling a Pit Trap a "Pit" or "Pitfall" seems accurate to what it is. The game doesn't call a Spear Trap a "stabber" or "poke" but that would be funny if it did. "I'm sorry, you've landed on the Shish Kabob, roll for damage..."


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Re: Japanese HeroQuest: Screen Translation

Postby HispaZargon » Thursday July 29th, 2021 7:36pm

Kurgan wrote:As with some other things, I would say keep it consistent. I like the "flavor" of the Japanese version using slightly different words for things familiar in the EU/NA versions.

Yeah, as you know I mostly agree on that.

Kurgan wrote:"Crush Trap" would be a nice compromise, or maybe "Crusher." Crushing is what the Falling Block Trap does, after all (the actual tile isn't of a block or rubble in this version but the literal falling boulder that the other versions use in the quest map icon).

So, if I have understood well, you are suggesting to better use "Crush Trap" instead of just "Crush", and using "Crushing" when refering to the stone block that has already fallen, isn't it? If yes, my best guess should now appear as follows (changes in bold):

Crush Trap
 It appears on the board when either found by a Trap Search, or when a hero passes through the Crush trap square.
 The crushing stays on the board as an obstacle. The crushing may not be passed through.
 The hero that activates a Crush trap loses 2 BP and is sent back 1 square in the direction he came from. The hero dies if there are no open squares to move back.


According to this, translated Rules of Play v.1.1 should be also modified as follows in order to be consistent:

Page #1, components list: Words "2 Falling block tiles" should be replaced by words "Crush trap tiles".
Page #15, traps list: Word "Crushing" should be replaced by word "Crush".
Page #16, Crush title: Title "CRUSH" should be replaced by words "CRUSH TRAP".
Page #16, When discovered in a trap search: Word "rock" should be replaced by word "crushing" in the last two appearances (in the first one I think "rock" is the correct one).
Page #16, When caugh in a trap: Word "Crush" should be replaced by words "Crush trap" in the first two appearances and word "Crush" should be replaced by word "crushing" in the last appearance.
Page #16, The Dwarf's Special Ability: Word "Crushes" should be replaced by words "Crush traps".
Page #23, Glossary: Entry "Crush" should be replaced by entry "Crush trap".

Kurgan wrote:Calling a Pit Trap a "Pit" or "Pitfall" seems accurate to what it is. The game doesn't call a Spear Trap a "stabber" or "poke" but that would be funny if it did. "I'm sorry, you've landed on the Shish Kabob, roll for damage..."


Then, in this case, I think calling it "Pit Trap" will match better next to "Crush Trap" words so... my best guess could now appear as follows (changes in bold):

Pit Trap
 It appears on the board when either found by a Trap Search, or when a hero passes through the Pit trap square.
 The pitfall stays on the board as an obstacle. Pitfalls may not be passed through.
 A hero that falls in a Pit trap loses 1 BP.
 You cannot conduct a Search while in the pitfall.
 When attacking or defending from in a pitfall, use one CD less than usual.
 The pitfall can be jumped. (More details on page 15 of the Rules of Play)


... and according to this, translated Rules of Play v.1.1 should be also modified as follows in order to be consistent:

Page #15, traps list: Word "Pitfalls" should be replaced by word "Pit".
Page #15, Pitfalls title: Title "PITFALLS" should be replaced by words "PIT TRAP".
Page #15, When caugh in a trap: Word "pitfall" should be replaced by words "Pit trap" in the first appearance.
Page #15, Jumping over pitfall: Word "pitfall" should be replaced by words "Pit trap" in the last appearance.
Page #16, The Dwarf's Special Ability: Word "Pitfalls" should be replaced by word "Pit traps".
Page #23, Glossary: Entry "Pitfalls" should be replaced by entry "Pit trap".


Ideas? Comments? Corrections? :-)


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Re: Japanese HeroQuest: Screen Translation

Postby Daedalus » Friday July 30th, 2021 12:43am

Crash/crush I don't think crush or crushing work as synonyms to each other. Of the two, crushing block might convey the translated sense, but I believe there is a better alternative.

The tile doesn’t actually show a block; rather, it depicts rubble. The Japanese translator probably rejected falling block for this reason and used a "better" term. While crash doesn't translate back well from Japanese, cave-in or even collapse fit the tile art accurately. I think the Japanese translator actually intended the meaning of one of these two synonyms for the Google translated "crash." They all describe a sudden, calamitous event and it's ruined after-effects.

Pit/pitfalls I agree Pit Trap is best.
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Re: Japanese HeroQuest: Screen Translation

Postby HispaZargon » Friday July 30th, 2021 5:19am

Daedalus wrote:Crash/crush I don't think crush or crushing work as synonyms to each other. Of the two, crushing block might convey the translated sense, but I believe there is a better alternative.

The tile doesn’t actually show a block; rather, it depicts rubble. The Japanese translator probably rejected falling block for this reason and used a "better" term. While crash doesn't translate back well from Japanese, cave-in or even collapse fit the tile art accurately. I think the Japanese translator actually intended the meaning of one of these two synonyms for the Google translated "crash." They all describe a sudden, calamitous event and it's ruined after-effects.

I like accurate points of view :-). Ok, so... what do you think if we write the screen back as follows?:

Collapse Trap
 It appears on the board when either found by a Trap Search, or when a hero passes through the Collapse trap square.
 The rubble stays on the board as an obstacle. The rubble may not be passed through.
 The hero that activates a Collapse trap loses 2 BP and is sent back 1 square in the direction he came from. The hero dies if there are no open squares to move back.


Of course the rulebook would be updated in the same way.


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Re: Japanese HeroQuest: Screen Translation

Postby Daedalus » Friday July 30th, 2021 5:52pm

How I'd word things are noted in red. (As you've already decided, change all occurrences of Pitfall/ pitfall to Pit Trap/pit trap.)

[i](To be used from Chapter 2, Quest 4)

Pitfall
 It appears on the board when either found by a Trap Search, or when a hero passes through the pitfall. It either appears on the board when found by a Trap Search or when a hero passes through the pit trap.
 The pitfall stays on the board as an obstacle. Pitfalls may not be passed through.The pit trap stays on the board as an obstacle. This square may not be passed through.
 A hero that falls in a pitfall loses 1 BP.
 You cannot conduct a Search while in the pitfall.
 When attacking or defending from in a pitfall, use one CD less than usual.
 The pitfall can be jumped. (More details on page 15 of the Rules of Play) A pit trap can be jumped. (Details on page 15 of the Rules of Play)

Crush Cave-in
 It appears on the board when either found by a Trap Search, or when a hero passes through the crush square. It either appears on the board when found by a Trap Search or when a hero passes through the cave-in square.
 The crush stays on the board as an obstacle. The crush may not be passed through. The cave-in stays on the board as an obstacle. This square may not be passed through.
 The hero that activates a crush loses 2 BP and is sent back 1 square in the direction he came from. The hero dies if there are no open squares to move back. The hero that activates a cave-in loses 2 BP and is sent back 1 square in the direction he came from. The hero dies if there are no open squares to move back to.

Trap disable Disarming a Trap
During its movement, the Dwarf can stop at the adjacent square of only one trap and disable it. (More details on page 16 of the Rules of Play) During movement, the Dwarf may stop adjacent to a single trap and disarm it. (Details on page 16 of the Rules of Play)

[Though your translation is fine, I personally don't like the last part of "During a single move" added from the Japanese screen. That means if a Dwarf happens to move adjacent to a trap and then search for it as an action, he can't remove it until the movement of the next turn--feels wonky. Does the p.16 translation repeat this tules change?]
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Re: Japanese HeroQuest: Screen Translation

Postby Daedalus » Saturday July 31st, 2021 12:02am

My last response about the editing of the majority of the screen might have confused things a bit as I didn't yet reply to this:

HispaZargon wrote:[Daedalus quote]

like accurate points of view :-). Ok, so... what do you think if we write the screen back as follows?:

Collapse Trap
 It appears on the board when either found by a Trap Search, or when a hero passes through the Collapse trap square.
 The rubble stays on the board as an obstacle. The rubble may not be passed through.
 The hero that activates a Collapse trap loses 2 BP and is sent back 1 square in the direction he came from. The hero dies if there are no open squares to move back.


Of course the rulebook would be updated in the same way.

Collapse is as good as cave-in. I'd further say a one-for-one substitution of collapse for crash shows the Japanese intent best. Here's what it would look like with a few other minor edit suggestions included:

Collapse
 It either appears on the board when found by a Trap Search or when a hero passes through the collapse square.
 The collapse stays on the board as an obstacle. The collapse may not be passed through.
 The hero that activates a collapse loses 2 BP and is sent back 1 square in the direction he came from. The hero dies if there are no open squares to move back to.
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