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Got a crazy idea again!

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Re: Got a crazy idea again!

Postby Kurgan » Monday December 28th, 2020 2:55pm

Pancho wrote:Did you know that we can get all of these figures already on Etsy. The Frozen Horror figure for example is less than £5 there. https://www.etsy.com/uk/listing/8057352 ... A805735201

I’m interested to know why Etsy can get away with selling these, and yet Decipher is being warned off. And whether it would be a worthwhile project anyway, if something similar already exists. Unless I’m missing something?


Starting a professional quality production vs. less-than-perfect-obviously-not-authentic 3d prints seems to be the issue. But the Etsy sellers are taking a risk as well.

Paying premium prices on Ebay or looking for reproductions on Etsy (or myminifactory) aren't your only options...

HeroQuest 3d printable minis:

https://www.yeggi.com/q/heroquest/

https://stlbase.com/browse/heroquest+miniature/

https://www.thingiverse.com/tag:heroquest
https://makerware.thingiverse.com/clarkski/collections/heroquest/page:2
https://www.reddit.com/r/Heroquest/comments/d6ltxk/3d_printed_heroquest_minis_furniture_doors_tiles/

https://www.cgtrader.com/3d-models/heroquest

(those are just the first results of a search for heroquest stl)


STL files are free (windows 10 is already setup to preview them). All you need is a 3d printer, but even lacking one, affordable 3d printing services exist. So I'm not saying you have to use boardgamesmaker, but they do it, for example (cheaper alternatives exist, check your local library or university).

Best 3D Printing services:

https://lifehacker.com/five-best-3d-printing-services-1706410803

https://all3dp.com/1/best-online-3d-printing-service-3d-print-services/

https://www.allthat3d.com/best-3d-service-online/

So go ahead, put up higher resolution 3d scanned files out on the web, and to each their own. |_P
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Re: Got a crazy idea again!

Postby Pancho » Monday December 28th, 2020 3:44pm

I’ve just been looking at the Etsy link I posted earlier and the quality overall maybe isn’t as good as what I originally thought. This is all subjective of course but to me the men-at-arms, warbears and yeti’s look good but the FH has a badly deformed axe and the female Barbarian just looks rubbish. It’s not easy to tell from the photo if the Ice Gremlins pass muster.

So yes, I think there is a need for what Decipher has suggested.

As for Hasbro, this is a complete guess but I personally I don’t think they’d give two hoots. They don’t really seem interested in a reprint of the hard to get expansions, and instead seem to be going for a woke reboot with orc songsmiths etc.


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Re: Got a crazy idea again!

Postby Kurgan » Monday December 28th, 2020 3:57pm

Hasbro claimed they were interested in hearing our "requests" for other expansions.

There's no need at all, unless you're talking about the "super rare" EQP/BQP unique minis (and also the unique Wizards of Morcar and Ogre Horde minis).

Decipher said he was going to do the "entire original" set. I've already said my peace on it, I guess it's up to the moderators if they want to allow this kind of thing... I personally advise against it, for all our sakes. Instead, if you just got a better quality scan (STL or other format) of the female Barbarian and Frozen Horror out there, people can print their own far cheaper than you could ship them.

I know, I know, bootleggers gonna bootleg, but like I said, high risk, low reward where the community is concerned regarding mass production. Since I'm not a lawyer, the gray areas of patent vs. copyright law in your country might be something worth reading up on.

PS: I know there's already a looooong thread dedicated to it, but the Hasbro Remake isn't really "woke" unless you consider the presence of female monster variants to be "woke" (we already had female hero variants and monsters back in the 90's already even if for many of them it was just indicated in the quest notes).
Last edited by Kurgan on Monday December 28th, 2020 6:22pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Got a crazy idea again!

Postby Rath of Un » Monday December 28th, 2020 6:13pm

If it's a passion project I say go for it! You've got the time and resources good on you! I wish you the best of luck and put me down as one of the first for a set.


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Re: Got a crazy idea again!

Postby Davane » Monday December 28th, 2020 7:39pm

The foundation of copyright law is simple - would your product/service/content serve as a replacement for the legal copyright owner, and thus potentially deprive them of a sale now, or in the future?

With Hasbro actively making a new version of HeroQuest, you may quickly find yourself in hot water if Hasbro think that you are producing miniatures/components for the HeroQuest game that would deprive them of sales of not only the main game system, but also any future expansion reprints that Hasbro may consider in the future. Since Hasbro included Kellar's Keep and Return of the Witch Lord in the fundraising campaign, there's a good chance that the other expansions may also see reprints.

As such, I would urge caution, and for the sake of the Inn, please consider taking this topic and similar ones away from the site. There's already the concern that Hasbro may ask the Inn to pull it's official resources from the site, and there's a lot of fan created content here that it would be shame to lose if the site were to be shut down over copyright infringement issues.
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Re: Got a crazy idea again!

Postby j_dean80 » Monday December 28th, 2020 9:13pm

Davane wrote:The foundation of copyright law is simple - would your product/service/content serve as a replacement for the legal copyright owner, and thus potentially deprive them of a sale now, or in the future?

With Hasbro actively making a new version of HeroQuest, you may quickly find yourself in hot water if Hasbro think that you are producing miniatures/components for the HeroQuest game that would deprive them of sales of not only the main game system, but also any future expansion reprints that Hasbro may consider in the future. Since Hasbro included Kellar's Keep and Return of the Witch Lord in the fundraising campaign, there's a good chance that the other expansions may also see reprints.

As such, I would urge caution, and for the sake of the Inn, please consider taking this topic and similar ones away from the site. There's already the concern that Hasbro may ask the Inn to pull it's official resources from the site, and there's a lot of fan created content here that it would be shame to lose if the site were to be shut down over copyright infringement issues.


1 person doing this on their own has nothing to do with the Inn. The Inn would not be directly involved. It’s like someone posting a bootleg movie for sale through facebook classified. That doesn’t go to facebook and get the site shut down.
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Re: Got a crazy idea again!

Postby Davane » Tuesday December 29th, 2020 5:05am

j_dean80 wrote:
Davane wrote:The foundation of copyright law is simple - would your product/service/content serve as a replacement for the legal copyright owner, and thus potentially deprive them of a sale now, or in the future?

With Hasbro actively making a new version of HeroQuest, you may quickly find yourself in hot water if Hasbro think that you are producing miniatures/components for the HeroQuest game that would deprive them of sales of not only the main game system, but also any future expansion reprints that Hasbro may consider in the future. Since Hasbro included Kellar's Keep and Return of the Witch Lord in the fundraising campaign, there's a good chance that the other expansions may also see reprints.

As such, I would urge caution, and for the sake of the Inn, please consider taking this topic and similar ones away from the site. There's already the concern that Hasbro may ask the Inn to pull it's official resources from the site, and there's a lot of fan created content here that it would be shame to lose if the site were to be shut down over copyright infringement issues.


1 person doing this on their own has nothing to do with the Inn. The Inn would not be directly involved. It’s like someone posting a bootleg movie for sale through facebook classified. That doesn’t go to facebook and get the site shut down.


No, but it does get the copyright owner to go to facebook and issue a DMCA takedown for the content, and if Facebook doesn't comply by removing the targeted classified, means they can potentially face legal action.

I don't know if you are aware, but there have been a number of DMCA complaints and copyright claims against creators of YouTube and Twitch regarding the issue of music copyright recently. Twitch found themselves innundated by them, mostly as a result of Twitch streamers playing music in the background of their streams, regardless of content. Twitch didn't handle the process very well, as the mostly automated system saw content creators getting multiple copyright strikes, and being left with little choice but to delete entire swathes of content.

My concern is that the "single person doing this on their own" is no longer a valid defence regarding copyright law. You can't just "turn a blind eye" to things like this anymore, for doing so can make the responsible site complicit in copyright infringement. Hasbro only has to issue a DMCA notice to the site, and if the Inn doesn't comply, they they become just as liable.

If this becomes an enterprise, being enabled by the Inn "turning a blind eye," it makes the Inn a target for Hasbro. The Inn can argue Fair Use as a reference library and fan site for an out of print game. The problem is that we don't know what Hasbro's intentions with the IP are.

Then there's the fact that it's not clear exactly who owns the rights to the miniature sculpts for the original HeroQuest game. As a product co-developed by Milton Bradley and Games Workshop, it may be the case that Games Workshop actually owns and retains the rights to the miniature sculpts of the original system, as opposed to Hasbro. In fact, Fimir miniatures are specifically listed as product identity, and if this is enough to make Hasbro think twice about reusing Fimir models, then Games Workshop certainly has the power - and the proven capacity and inclination - to go after anyone trying to sell bootleg miniatures of theirs.

Either way, it would be unfortunate is the Inn was to be caught in the crossfire between Hasbro and Games Workshop, with regards to what will certainly be interesting developments with the miniature gaming industry in the near future. If any such enterprises raises the profile of the Inn, the best outcome would be a DMCA takedown notice followed by quick compliance by the Inn. The worst would see the Inn being forced to shut down, as the owners are targeted by legal action by Hasbro and/or GW for non-compliance with a DMCA takedown notice in a timely fashion.

Neither seems a particularly worthwhile outcome because of a "crazy idea" - and it might be advisable for the Inn to take the stance that any such enterprises should not be discussed/organised on the site. There's a difference between "Look at what I did, isn't it cool?" and "Look at what I have created for sale, do you want some?"
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Re: Got a crazy idea again!

Postby Pancho » Tuesday December 29th, 2020 9:58am

Decipher, if you still wanted to do this just organise it via PM to the people that you already know will be interested (from your dice project etc).


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Re: Got a crazy idea again!

Postby whitebeard » Tuesday December 29th, 2020 1:41pm

As posted previously there are several copyright problems with the activities of the Inn and others on the broader internet (like on Thingiverse). But the key issue is this:

At what point do these activities raise the collective eyebrows of Hasbro / GW? And what will the response look like once this happens?

(1) The availability of what amounts to a FOR PROFIT PROFESSIONAL re-release of the entire game likely crosses that line.

(2) The simplest response from the company would be for lawyers to do a Google search and issue DMCA to EVERYONE (Ye Olde Inn and Thingiverse being the first on the list).

In short, executing a for profit plan in PMs outside of the Ye Olde Inn forums may make little difference to the DCMA response we all see once such a response is discovered as being overdue.


Thus far making INFORMATION available for die hard classic HeroQuest fans to reproduce content has been acceptable (e.g. under the radar). I recommend you produce the high quality scans and give them away (Thingiverse) so anybody who wants to can make/order resin prints locally. Just ask for donations from members who would want the STLs. Leaving it at this stage means that anyone wanting to produce the classic set for themselves will need to spend a lot of money (or time) on resin printing such it is not viewed as competition relative to acquiring modern proxies or the new Fall 2021 boxed sets.


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Re: Got a crazy idea again!

Postby lestodante » Tuesday December 29th, 2020 2:09pm

Decipher wrote:They will send me the 3D mesh CAD prints which I will use to mill a mold to use in a plastic mold injection machine.


I'm on your side but are you sure creating a mold will be cheap?


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