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Re: Polishing the Second Edition

Postby Bareheaded Warrior » May 13th, 2023, 6:19 am

#26: Giving Item Rules are vague, inconsistent and flawed - RESOLVED

Problem statement: There is no giving item rule in the rulebook, but a rule is implied in Legacy of the Orc Warlord but not clearly stated

SE Game System: Legacy of the Orc Warlord wrote:
When a player enters the room he may recover all the equipment, Quest Treasure and spell cards. Other players may regain their equipment by being in the same room or passage as the player who collected everything. That player may decide to keep some, or all, items of equipment for himself



So from this we can glean that a character may give item(s), including Equipment Cards and Quest Treasure cards to other characters by being in the same room or passageway.

There is no information around whether that is restricted to the "givers" turn, whether it takes an action, whether any monster placement is relevant and similar.

Discussion link: Potions: how do they work?

Additional Material:

Carrying and changing equipment during a quest

Frozen Horror & Mage of the Mirror (NA edition only) & A New Beginning wrote:Rule clarifications:

Passing items: A hero can pass a potion, artifact, weapon or any other item to another Hero only if the 2 Heroes are in adjacent squares and neither is adjacent to a monster


Note: This rule clarifies the items, hero positioning and monster positioning, but has no mention of restrictions around whose turn this occurs on, whether it is an action or not, and it also appears to limit the transfer to 1 item, but if this isn't an action then presumably you could simply repeat it over and over until you have transferred any number of items.

NA Edition Rules of Play wrote:How A Hero Escapes Death

p22 As a Hero, if your Body Points have been reduced to zero, there are two situations where you can save yourself:

1) If you have a Healing Potion in your possession, you can immediately drink it. The potion will instantly raise your Body Points above zero, restoring you to life.

2) If you are a spellcaster with a Healing Spell, and you have not already performed an action on your turn, you can be healed by casting the spell on yourself.

Important! After your Body Points have reached zero, you can never be saved by a fellow Hero's spell or potion. It will be too late. You will have died by the time it is your fellow Hero's turn - the only time when he can cast a spell or give you a potion.


This last sentence may be taken to imply that you can only give items, or at least potions, on your turn.

All presented rules contain an exploit where a hero can use an equipment card such as a battle axe or crossbow as part of their action and can then give that to another hero who could use it on his turn as part of his action (and could potentially then give that to a third hero and so on)

Proposed changes:
Gather together all the 'giving item' rules from the various quests / quest packs in which they appear, starting with the one in the Game System, compare, contrast and attempt to come up with a common rule, without the exploit and include it in the rulebook (and remove it from the quests/expansions)

Remove restriction on the number of items, specify on the giver's turn, as an action.

Implemented changes:

# [0.0.13] - 2023-06-20 - Fixed Problem #26

###Added

- Rulebook (Book of Exploration: Giving Items): Add the following rule "As an action, a character can pass potions, artefacts, weapons, or any other items to another character that is in an adjacent square."
Last edited by Bareheaded Warrior on June 20th, 2023, 7:30 am, edited 3 times in total.
:skull: = white skull, one "hit"
:blackshield: = black skull, one "hit"
:whiteshield: = shield, cancels out one "hit"

Editions: 1989 Original First Edition [FE] and Second Edition [SE], 1990 Remake [US], 2021 Remake [21]

HeroQuest Gold new edition based on Original 1989 HeroQuest, holes patched, dents hammered out, buffed to a shiny finish with ~50 common issues fixed for a smoother experience.

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Re: Polishing the Second Edition

Postby Bareheaded Warrior » May 13th, 2023, 6:25 am

#27: Can you use a Potion of Healing to save yourself from Death - RESOLVED

Problem statement:
A potion of healing can be used at any time, being reduced to zero Body points eliminates you. Can you use the Potion of healing at the moment that you are reduced to zero Body points in order to save yourself from being eliminated?
This is open to interpretation, to allow it comes with the downside that it removes any incentive for Heroes to use Potions of Healing until they are reduced to zero Body points, to disallow it generates bad feeling when a Hero is killed whilst holding a potion that could save him.
The best compromise that I have seen is to allow the use of the Potion of Healing to save yourself from elimination, however if you do so then it will only restore you to one Body point, rather than restoring the usual four Body points. This saves the Hero from elimination, but still provides an incentive to use it before you get to that moment.

Discussion Link:
Healing: How A Hero Escapes Death

Additional material:
ATOH: Heroes return full health between quests as series, right?
Potions: how do they work?
Potions, Traps and Throwing Weapons

Implemented changes:

## [0.0.12] - 2023-06-06 - Fixed Problem #27

###Added

- Rulebook (Book of Combat: Eliminating Characters): If a character’s Body points reach zero, but they are equipped with a potion that restores Body points then they may save themselves from death, by drinking the potion at that instant. However the potion used in this situation will only restore the dying character to one Body point irrespective to the normal effect stated on the card which applies to its use on a character with one or more Body points.
Important! After your Body points have reached zero, you can never be saved by a fellow character’s spell or potion. It will be too late. You will have died by the time it is your fellow character’s turn – the only time when they can cast a spell or give you a potion.
Last edited by Bareheaded Warrior on June 6th, 2023, 4:28 am, edited 4 times in total.
:skull: = white skull, one "hit"
:blackshield: = black skull, one "hit"
:whiteshield: = shield, cancels out one "hit"

Editions: 1989 Original First Edition [FE] and Second Edition [SE], 1990 Remake [US], 2021 Remake [21]

HeroQuest Gold new edition based on Original 1989 HeroQuest, holes patched, dents hammered out, buffed to a shiny finish with ~50 common issues fixed for a smoother experience.

HQ Common Notification System to identify squares on the board
User avatar
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Re: Polishing the Second Edition

Postby Bareheaded Warrior » May 13th, 2023, 6:41 am

#28: Elixir of Life, usage and effects need clarification - RESOLVED

Problem statement:

SE Dark Company Quest Notes - a life-giving elixir wrote:If he administers it to a dead character player, it will bring him back to life. The revived character can be placed anywhere in the room and will have just one Body point.


Granted this is filled with the usual inconsistencies (we've had some really exciting and tense games, but not yet have we had a PLAYER drop dead and need to be restored by an elixir, I presume that is meant to be a reference to a character) but I infer from the use of the phase 'administers it to a dead character' that the dead character (technically their corpse) needs to be present in the same room (or passageway presumably) as the character doing the administering...

No information given on how the Elixir can be administered to a dead hero, does the administering hero need to be adjacent to, or in the same room or passageway, as the dead hero, does the administering count as an action, what if the hero died from mind point loss.

"The revived character can be placed anywhere in the room", this probably includes passageways, but suggests that the hero doing the administering probably needs to be in the same room (or passageway) as the deceased otherwise the limited instructions are even more ambiguous (the room that the deceased died in or the room in which the elixir is administered?)

No mention of whether the revived character retains equipment, treasure, spells and so on

Discussion link: Elixir of Life: Vague, but useful

Additional material:

Healing: How A Hero Escapes Death

Suggested changes:

Change "character player" to "character"

Use the "giving rules" to cover the administration, effectively you "give" it to the dead hero

No mention of the revived character's equipment, treasure or spells suggests that no change is required, equipment and treasure are handled as per the standard rules (see below) and revived character would have exactly the same spells as when he died.

SE Rules of Play wrote:Eliminated characters and monsters are immediately removed from play. Any Equipment or gold the eliminated character had may be picked up by another character, who searches for treasure in the room or passage in which the character was eliminated. However the evil wizard player may also claim the Equipment and gold if, on his next turn he moves a monster into the same room or passage, in which the character was eliminated.
If a monster picks up the possessions of the eliminated character they are removed from the game, the monster may not use either the Equipment or the gold.


Implemented Changes:
# [0.0.24] - 2023-12-14 - Fixed Problems #28

###Changed
- Scrolls (Quest Treasure Card: Elixir of Life): Altered text to read "This life-giving elixir, administered as an action by a hero adjacent to a square containing a skull marker indicating where a hero was slain, will bring the slain hero back to life.
The revived character will be restored to the square on which he died and will have just one Body point.
For clarity, no equipment or other cards are restored by this item but a spell caster retains the spells that he had at the moment of his death."
Last edited by Bareheaded Warrior on December 15th, 2023, 4:43 am, edited 4 times in total.
:skull: = white skull, one "hit"
:blackshield: = black skull, one "hit"
:whiteshield: = shield, cancels out one "hit"

Editions: 1989 Original First Edition [FE] and Second Edition [SE], 1990 Remake [US], 2021 Remake [21]

HeroQuest Gold new edition based on Original 1989 HeroQuest, holes patched, dents hammered out, buffed to a shiny finish with ~50 common issues fixed for a smoother experience.

HQ Common Notification System to identify squares on the board
User avatar
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Re: Polishing the Second Edition

Postby Bareheaded Warrior » May 13th, 2023, 6:42 am

#29: Rules around handling Death Mist are not clear - RESOLVED

Problem statement:

SE Return of the Witch Lord: The Silent Passages wrote:The shaded corridor is haunted by the Death Mist, a breath of Chaos which destroys all who are not evil. The Mist cannot be attacked and it may only be destroyed by a Tempest spell or by the Spirit Blade. The Death Mist may attack characters by moving through them and causing one body point of damage. The Mist may move through several characters in one move. It will not affect monsters. The Death Mist may never leave the shaded corridor area. It moves 6 squares per turn and may not end its turn on the same square as another miniature.


AerynB wrote:2. The Death Mist may attack characters by moving through them. Heroes lose 1 BP when the Mist passes over them on Zargon's turn, but what if they pass over the Mist on their turn. Do they lose a body point then? We played that the Heroes don't lose a point when passing over the Mist tile on their turn, only because it didn't say that explicitly in the rules. Common sense tells me the Heroes should have lost a body point for moving through the mist, or possibly we should have treated it as a trap square and they had to attempt to jump the tile to avoid losing the body point. What do you all think?

3. The Mist may not end its movement on a square with a Hero, but can a Hero end his movement on the Mist tile? I ruled that it was okay, sort of like in number 2 above. Since it didn't explicitly say the Heroes couldn't end on the Mist tile, then it was okay if they did. Again, common sense tells me this shouldn't be so. Same thing as a trap, if you end on the Mist tile, you lose 1 BP. What do you think?


Daedalus wrote:How did you treat the pit trap and spear trap while the Death Mist was in sight? Traps may not be searched for by a Hero while a monster is visible to him, but the Death Mist isn't exactly a monster. It has special movement restrictions and lacks other stats. It also doesn't roll to hit a Hero. On the other hand, it reacts to the Heroes, endures on the board until destroyed, and may move.


Discussion link: The Death Mist

Proposed changes:

Sjeng wrote:2. Your common sense is what I did.
3. I treat the mist like a monster you can pass through at the cost of 1 bp. Can not stop on the same square.


Daedalus wrote:I'm leaning toward not allowing searches while the Death Mist is visible, just as with a monster. My feeling is it can present a targeted, imminent threat to the Hero, which is the prime characteristic of monsters. While the Instruction Booklet only denotes visible monsters as prohibiting searches, my feeling of the spirit of the rule is that imminent threat is the reason for that broad prohibition. The thematic support is that a searching Hero needs to completely cover an area while making a focused search (without actually requiring the figure to move there-its assumed), and a threatening monster would prevent that. This isn't always the case with monsters behind traps, but the general rule is outlined and governs searching, just the same. I feel this threat principle blankets this case, but this extension is really just my interpretation--it's easy to go either way, in my opinion. The Quest Notes section should have detailed this instance, making it clear whether searches were possible or not. Fortunately, Hero Quest has an Evil Sorcerer/Wizard player to apply either interpretation.


So, in summary

Modify the text to make it clear that a Body point is lost each time the Death Mist passes through a character or a character passes through the Death Mist

Modify the text to make it clear that as the Death Mist cannot end its movement on the same square as another character, equally another character cannot end its turn on the same square as the Death Mist

The Death Mist is a monster and is visible therefore the usual rules around searching and disarming traps apply

Whilst the text states that the Death Mist cannot be attacked, presumably that means by normal means, attacking the Death Mist with the Spirit Blade or by casting the Tempest spell can be done as usual. The Death Mist would get no defend roll as no defend dice are indicated, presumably any hit would therefore kill it.

Need to modify the text to state that it cannot move through the same hero more than once on the same turn.

Implemented Changes:

# [0.0.18] - 2023-06-29 - Fixed Problem #29

###Added

- Scrolls (Monster Card: Wraith): Undead, Incorporeal, Life Drain, Invulnerability: Mundane Attacks and Spells*
• Move 6 squares.
• Attack 3 dice
• Defend 3 dice.
• Mind 3 dice
• Body 1 points
*Except Genie, Tempest
May not end its turn on an occupied square
May not move through the same character twice in the same turn

- Rulebook (Book of Monsters): Incorporeal
A character with this ability has no physical body so can pass through obstacles such as walls, closed doors, furniture, other characters, blocked squares and even solid rock.

- Rulebook (Book of Monsters): Life Drain
Characters with this ability attack a character’s mind directly through touch. If the attack results in the victim losing at least one Body point, then the attacker gains one Body point. This is not a restore but an increase to their Body points total.
Note: The combination of Life Drain and Incorporeal abilities possessed by a Wraith means that if they pass through a character on their turn, or if a character passes through a Wraith on their own turn, then the character's mind is attacked using its Life Drain ability. This means a Wraith can make multiple attacks in a single turn.

- Rulebook (Book of Monsters): Invulnerability: Mundane Attacks
Attacks from non-artefact weapons have no effect. Attacks from artefact weapons have their usual effects.
Note: Holy Water works as usual against characters with this ability that are also undead

- Rulebook (Book of Monsters): Invulnerability: Spells
Spells cast at the target have no effect with any exceptions listed
Last edited by Bareheaded Warrior on June 29th, 2023, 4:28 am, edited 2 times in total.
:skull: = white skull, one "hit"
:blackshield: = black skull, one "hit"
:whiteshield: = shield, cancels out one "hit"

Editions: 1989 Original First Edition [FE] and Second Edition [SE], 1990 Remake [US], 2021 Remake [21]

HeroQuest Gold new edition based on Original 1989 HeroQuest, holes patched, dents hammered out, buffed to a shiny finish with ~50 common issues fixed for a smoother experience.

HQ Common Notification System to identify squares on the board
User avatar
Bareheaded Warrior

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Re: Polishing the Second Edition

Postby Bareheaded Warrior » May 13th, 2023, 6:44 am

#30: The Advancement Mechanism doesn’t extend beyond the Game System - RESOLVED

Problem statement: Contrary to widespread belief HeroQuest does has an advancement mechanism - through the acquisition of loot and the purchase of improved weapons and armour, but this has a few issues that this update intends to fix

1. Rate of gold acquisition versus cost of items results in the Heroes maxing out too quickly (made worse by the later introduction of the buyback rule and US Edition one search per hero per room)

2. Giving away free upgrades in the form of weapons & armour in-Quest undermines the advancement mechanism AND takes away player choice (“but no one wants a staff except the Wizard, and he already has one, I would have preferred the gold to choose my own upgrade”) and some of the later Quests give away kit by the cart load – can’t remember which one off the top of my head but I think 2 short swords and 2 longswords in a single chest – think of the gold value!.

3. Borin’s Armour – giving away the most expensive item in the game Plated Mail so early practically breaks advancement mechanism on its own

4. Not enough Equipment Cards especially single-use ones

Discussion link:
Advancement - how to do it?

Additional material:

Managing Hero Power Creep : Gold & Equipment
Rejigging the Equipment Card Deck [SE]

Proposed Solution:
*Swap the position of the Borin’s Armour Artefact from its current position in the Game System / Gathering Storm Quest book with the Rabbit Boots artefact from ROTWL. Update Skulmar’s Movement Stats to 10 to reflect this change of equipment (amendment to the Scrolls of Conversion
*Rename the Rabbit Boots to Boots of Speed
*Update the effects to “the wearer gets +1 to jumps and the ability to reroll their movement dice each turn”.
*Ported Alchemist’s Fire treasure item (from AHQ) and modified to be of item type “Flask” and therefore effects consist with new Sacred Water item and used that to replace “Potion of Strength” in the Treasure deck, although that potion still exists in the Alchemists’ Shop.

Implemented changes:

Changes already introduced that help resolve this issue:

#20 - Search restricted to rooms and once per room only will reduce gold acquisition
Give-aways of items in quest will be generally restricted to Quest Treasures and single-use or limited-use items
Borin's Armour and Rabbit Boots will be swapped between GS and ROTWL
Introduced new Equipment Cards (including plenty of single-use items for the Game System and beyond see Rejigging the Equipment Card Deck [SE] for details
#1 - Throwing Knife and Dagger
#6 - Longsword

Introduced new single/limited-use Quest Treasure Cards (that have a gold cost so can be purchased after initial use) for the Game System and beyond. Covered on topic above.

Only rule changes needed aside from those already covered above are some clarifications around Equipment Card and Quest Treasure Card use and the Artefact label...

# [0.0.19] - 2023-07-04 - Fixed Problem #30

###Added

- Rulebook (Between Quests: Equipment Cards): "If Equipment or Quest Treasure cards are used and discarded or are lost then they are added to the Equipment Card deck at the end of the Quest so are available for purchase again, between quests.
- Rulebook (Between Quests: Buying Equipment): A hero may not buy equipment if the card is not available or they do not have enough gold to do so

- Scrolls (Spell Card: Rust): "Does not affect Equipment with the artefact label."
- Scrolls (Equipment Card: Short Bow):
Short Bow
#From Against the Ogre Horde: The Carrion Halls
Weapon, Missile, Both Hands, 2AD
The Short bow allows you to roll two combat dice in attack.
Cost 150 gold coins.

- Scrolls (Equipment Card: Repeater Crossbow):
Repeater Crossbow
Weapon, Missile, Both Hands, 2AD
The Repeater Crossbow allows you to roll two combat dice in attack and enables you to shoot twice as a single action against the same or different targets.
Cost 500 gold coins.

-Scrolls (Quest Treasure Card: Boots of Speed)
Boots, Artefact
The Boots of Speed allow the wearer to roll an extra die when moving but they must discard the lowest die rolled before totalling up
#Q7 The Stone Hunter. Position swapped with Borin's Armour which is now in ROTWL worn by Skulmar

-Scrolls (Equipment Card: Venom Antidote)
Potion
This bubbling brew tastes foul but heals up to 2 Body Points of damage caused by poison needles or poison darts only. The card is then discarded.
Cost 200 gold coins.
# Ported from NA Edition Alchemist's Shop

-Scrolls (Equipment Card: Potion of Luck)
Potion
This small bottle of sparkling liquid can be taken immediately after any dice roll allowing you to change the dice to reflect the best possible outcome. Red dice to sixes, combat dice to all skulls or all shields and so on.
Cost 500 gold coins.
# Replaces Potion of Dexterity from NA Edition Alchemist's Shop as SE already has Potion of Speed.

-Scrolls (Equipment Card: Potion of Regeneration)
Potion
Drinking this potion restores one Body point now and restores another Body point at the start of each of your turns until your current Body point total reaches your starting Body point score at which point it stops working and is discarded.
Cost 500 gold coins
# Replaces Potion of Restoration from NA Edition Alchemist's Shop.

-Scrolls (Equipment Card: Potion of Magic Resistance)
Potion
You can drink the potion when you are targeted by a mind attack, and you may then roll two extra combat dice in defence. Discard after use.
Cost 400 gold coins
#Replacement for Mind aspect of Potion of Restoration from NA Edition Alchemist's Shop.

-Scrolls (Quest Treasure Card: Potion of Fire Resistance)
Potion
When you drink the potion, you will be able to ignore all damage caused by fire attacks for the next full round. Discard at the start of your next turn.
Cost 250 gold coins
#replaces Fire Ring from Q4 The Dwarvern Forge from NA Edition

-Scrolls (Quest Treasure Card: Elixir of Life)
Elixir
This small bottle of pearly liquid will bring a Hero back to life, restoring all his Body and Mind Points. The card is then discarded.
Cost 1000 gold coins.
# Found in Q7 The Eastern Passage from NA Edition

-Scrolls (Equipment Card: Amulet of Spell Catching)
Amulet, ArtefactThis amulet will absorb the first spell in any Quest, cast directly on the holder, who will ignore all effects. This includes friendly spells!

-Scrolls (Equipment Card: Shield of Deflection)
Shield, Artefact
This shield works like a normal shield and non-magical missile attacks will only count black shields as a hit rather than skulls

-Scrolls (Equipment Card: Helmet of Ensorcelled Iron)
+1 DD +1MP, not spellcasters
This helmet allows you to roll one extra combat dice in defence against standard attacks and mind attacks. Cannot be worn by a spellcaster.

-Scrolls (Quest Treasure Card: Dust of Disappearance)
Potion
If tossed on any Hero, this dust allows that Hero to move past any monsters encountered on his next turn. The card is then discarded.
Cost 200 gold coins.
Note: Q1: Gate of Doom

-Scrolls (Quest Treasure Card: Dust of Sleep)
Potion?
A small pouch containing silver sand which blown into the eyes of an adjacent target, puts them to sleep, effects like the spell but no roll required. Discard after use.
Cost 250 gold coins
Note: This would replace the second "Dust of Disappearance" in Q1: Gate of Doom

-Scrolls (Quest Treasure Card: Magical Throwing Knife (2))
Weapon, Artefact, Magic Attack, Throwing
Always inflicts 1 Body Point of damage when thrown at a monster a Hero can "see". Monster cannot defend. Dagger is lost once it is thrown and the card is then discarded.
Cost 300 gold coins.
Note: Pair of these found in Q2 The Warrior Halls

-Scrolls (Quest Treasure Card: Alchemists Fire Flask)
Fire Attack, Throwing
This flask can be thrown at any character that you have a clear line of sight to. On impact it bursts into flames and the victim must roll three combat dice, losing a Body point for each skull rolled. Discard after use.
Cost 500 gold coins.
# Replaces Fire Spell Scrolls in Q4 Halls of Vision

-Scrolls (Quest Treasure Card: Anti-poison Quill)
Potion
Restores any of the owner's Body Points lost by poisoning from a specific attack if used immediately. The card is then discarded.
Cost 300 gold coins.
# Q8 The Forbidden Caverns

-Scrolls (Quest Treasure Card: Arm Band of Healing)
Armband, Artefact
Restores 2 lost Body Points once per Quest. If the wearer's Body Points are reduced to zero, use immediately to restore 2 Body Points.
# Q9 The Last Gate
Last edited by Bareheaded Warrior on September 4th, 2023, 4:30 am, edited 7 times in total.
:skull: = white skull, one "hit"
:blackshield: = black skull, one "hit"
:whiteshield: = shield, cancels out one "hit"

Editions: 1989 Original First Edition [FE] and Second Edition [SE], 1990 Remake [US], 2021 Remake [21]

HeroQuest Gold new edition based on Original 1989 HeroQuest, holes patched, dents hammered out, buffed to a shiny finish with ~50 common issues fixed for a smoother experience.

HQ Common Notification System to identify squares on the board
User avatar
Bareheaded Warrior

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Posts: 1012
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Re: Polishing the Second Edition

Postby Bareheaded Warrior » May 13th, 2023, 6:46 am

#31: Wizard has very limited Advancement under the standard mechanism - RESOLVED

Problem statement: The Wizard is pretty much excluded from the advancement through upgrading weapons and armour mechanism due to their inability to use anything but basic weapons. The Wizard has almost nothing to spend his gold on, so is effectively excluded from the advancement mechanism.

In addition, some Quests particularly those from the later Quest Books are considerably longer than the earlier Quests so the Wizard risks running out of spells early on.

Discussion Link: Magic, Mind Points and the Talisman of Lore

Additional material:

The Wizard Clearing House of House Rules
Rejigging the Equipment Card Deck [SE]

Proposed changes:

Introduce a mechanism for the Wizard to advance through purchase of new spells

Keep to Mind Point to Maximum Spell Principle – make explicit instead of implicit – Maximum Number of Spells is one set of three for each (starting) Mind Point over three i.e., Elf MP4 = 1 set of 3 spells, Wizard MP6 = 3 sets of 3 spells = 9 spells. This would mean that as the Wizard's Mind Point increase due to Quest Treasures he can purchase additional spells or spell sets to take into the dungeon.

An alternative version of the Wizard has 5 Body Points & 5 Mind Points. These changes still thematically mean the Wizard has highest mind and lowest body, the extra BP means he doesn’t have to wait until death to get full value from basic 4 BP healing spell/potion, gives him a little higher survivability, keeps the BP and MP total of 10 principle.

His 5 mind points give him a starting number of spells of 6 spells (2 elements) and when his starting Mind Points increase (for example due to an artefact like the Talisman of Lore) he has the option to purchase new spells (prices for spells are included next to the relevant spells in the appendix)

Only has 6 starting spells – Wiz chooses 1 set, Elf chooses 2nd set, Wiz chooses 3rd set. This is in line with the normal principle of every Mind point over 3 gives you access to one set of 3 spells.

Each Mind point for the Wizard over and above his starting 5 gives him the opportunity to learn 3 more spells, a single set. These can be purchased with Gold between quests, collectively as a set, the gold purchase representing the time and material needed to learn and master the spells.

Implemented Changes:

# [0.0.20] - 2023-07-05 - Fixed Problem #31

###Added

- Rulebook (Book of Spellcasting):
Some characters can cast spells and are known as spellcasters, such as the Wizard and the Elf. Special rules that apply to them are covered in this book.
Spells must be chosen and prepared in advance of a quest and stored in the mind of the caster so that they can cast, or activate the stored spell and release its effects, though words and gestures at an appropriate moment of their choice in the dungeon.
Once a spell has been cast it is discarded and cannot be used again until it is prepared again between quests.
Spellcasters have a finite capacity of prepared spells that they can hold in their minds, this is determine as one spell set (of three spells) for every Mind point over three. For example, so a spellcaster with a Mind value of 5, can only prepare a maximum of 2 sets of 3 spells.
Selection and preparation of spells from those known to him, generally kept in the form of a spell book, is time consuming, complex, elaborate and intensive, so can only take place between quests, and results in the spellcaster having a number of spells prepared in his mind ready to be "cast", activated or released, in the quest as required.
Additional spell sets in the form of scrolls may be found in Quests, these increase the number of spells available to be prepared between quests but have no impact on the actual maximum limit of spells that can be prepared and taken into a Quest.
Some magical items can increase the Mind value of the holder and therefore increase the maximum number of spell sets that a spellcaster can prepare such as the Talisman of Lore
Both of our spellcasting heroes the Wizard and the Elf start the game with access to the following spell sets:
• Spells of Air: Genie, Tempest, Swift Wind
• Spells of Earth: Heal Body, Pass Through Rock, Rock Skin
• Spells of Fire: Ball of Flame, Courage, Fire of Wrath
• Spells of Water: Sleep, Veil of Mist, Water of Healing
Spell Selection
The process for selecting spells is that the spellcaster with the highest Mind value chooses their first set, followed by the spellcaster with the next highest mind value and so on until all spellcasters have selected their first set. The process then repeats for the second set until each spellcaster has reached their limit. If more than one spellcaster has the same Mind value then they must roll a die each, highest goes first.

- Scrolls (Equipment Card: Wizard's Staff):
Wizard’s Staff
Weapon, Diagonal, Basic, Both Hands, Artefact, Wizard Only, 2AD
The Wizard’s Staff allows you to roll two combat dice in attack. The Wizard’s Staff may be used to attack diagonally.
Cost 250 gold coins.
May only be used by Wizard.

- Scrolls (Equipment Card: Wand of Fire):
Wand of Fire
Artefact, Weapon, Wizard Only, 2AD, Fire Attack, Missile
This wand allows the wielder to target a character with a fiery blast. The victim rolls two combat die, losing a Body point for each skull rolled.

- Scrolls (Equipment Card: Crown of Sorcery):
Crown of Sorcery
Spellcaster only
This headgear gives the wearer an extra starting Mind Point.
Cost 1000 gold coins

- Scrolls (Equipment Card: Ring of Escape):
Ring of Escape
Spellcaster only
When invoked, this magical ring will return all characters that the ring wearer can "see" to the starting point of the Quest. The card is then discarded.
Cost ? gold coins.

- Scrolls (Equipment Card: Scroll of Protection):
Scroll of Protection
Spellcaster only
This scroll allows the holder to choose the Spells of Protection set as one of their sets to prepare for a Quest.
Cost 1000 gold coins

- Scrolls (Equipment Card: Scroll of Darkness):
Scroll of Darkness
Spellcaster only
This scroll allows the holder to choose the Spells of Darkness set as one of their sets to prepare for a Quest.
Cost 1000 gold coins

- Scrolls (Equipment Card: Scroll of Detection):
Scroll of Detection
Spellcaster only
This scroll allows the holder to choose the Spells of Detection set as one of their sets to prepare for a Quest.
Cost 1000 gold coins

- Scrolls (Equipment Card: Potion of Magical Aptitude):
Potion of Magical Aptitude
Potion, Spellcaster Only
You discover a vial of silvery liquid under a loose flagstone. You may drink it at the beginning of your turn and it allows you to roll two extra combat dice when you use a Mind Combat spell. Discard after use.
Cost 400 gold coins

- Scrolls (Quest Treasure Card: Ring of Recall):
Ring of Recall
Artefact, Spellcaster Only
This ring enables the wearer to roll a combat die having cast a spell and if a black shield is scored then the wearer may keep the spell card for another use rather than discarding it
#Q14 Return to Barak Tor, worn by the Witch Lord instead of NA edition Spell Ring

###Changed

- Rulebook (Book of Heroes):
Sort the 12 spell cards into their four sets. There are three cards in each set. Each set corresponds to a different aspect of magical energy: Spells of Air, Spells of Earth, Spells of Fire and Spells of Water.
At the start of your first game the Wizard must take the Spells of Earth and the Spells of Fire and the Elf, the Spells of Water. The Spells of Air will not be used in the first Quest.
Spellcasters may change their spells between Quests, see Book of Spellcasting for details

- Scrolls (Character Card: Wizard):
Increased Body Points from 4 to 5
Decreased Mind Dice from 6 to 5

- Scrolls (Equipment Card: Bracers): Renamed to Bracers of Defence
- Scrolls (Quest Treasure Card: Wand of Recall): Renamed to Wand of Concurrence
- Scrolls (Quest Treasure Card: Talisman of Lore): Reduced from +2 Mind to +1 Mind

- Scrolls (Spell Cards: All): Regrouped into spell sets as below
#From Game System (Elemental Spells)
• Spells of Air: Genie, Tempest, Swift Wind
• Spells of Earth: Heal Body, Pass Through Rock, Rock Skin
• Spells of Fire: Ball of Flame, Courage, Fire of Wrath
• Spells of Water: Sleep, Veil of Mist, Water of Healing
#From Wizards of Morcar
• Spells of Darkness: Arrows of the Night, Chains of Darkness, Cloak of Shadows
• Spells of Detection: Clairvoyance, Future Sight, Treasure Horde
• Spells of Protection: Dispell, Invisibility, Wall of Stone
#From Against the Ogre Horde
• Spells of Mind: Mind Lock, Dominate, Mind Blast
#From Wizards of Morcar (not sure if these are one double set of 6 or need to be split into two single sets of 3 but I don’t think it matters, perhaps splitting them would be more flexible)
• Spells of the High Mage: Dispell, Escape, Madness, Rust, Strands of Binding, Wall of Flame
• Spells of the Storm Master: Blinding Sleet, Earthquake, Hurricane, Lightning Bolt, Thieving Wind, Wall of Ice
• Spells of the Necromancer: Call Skeleton, Death Bolt, Fear, Raise the Dead, Skulls of Doom, Summon Mummy
• Spells of the Orc Shaman: Orc Berserker, Sharpen Blades, Shield of Protection, Spirit of Vengeance, Summon Goblins, Summon Orcs
Last edited by Bareheaded Warrior on July 7th, 2023, 10:48 am, edited 9 times in total.
:skull: = white skull, one "hit"
:blackshield: = black skull, one "hit"
:whiteshield: = shield, cancels out one "hit"

Editions: 1989 Original First Edition [FE] and Second Edition [SE], 1990 Remake [US], 2021 Remake [21]

HeroQuest Gold new edition based on Original 1989 HeroQuest, holes patched, dents hammered out, buffed to a shiny finish with ~50 common issues fixed for a smoother experience.

HQ Common Notification System to identify squares on the board
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Re: Polishing the Second Edition

Postby Bareheaded Warrior » May 13th, 2023, 6:48 am

#32: Spell Break Mechanism for Lingering Spells is inconsistent - RESOLVED

Problem Statement: Sleep, and so on

These spells effect the Mind of the target, you cast them, they get an opportunity to resist, and the spell effect lingers/lasts for a number of turns determined by the target resistance.

Some spells, those that affect the Mind of the target have a mechanism to break the effects of the spell, stated on the corresponding spell card, to keep this consistent and modular and the card text minimal the ‘how’ the rule works needs to be moved to the rulebook and the card text used to state the ‘what’ needs to happen i.e., to break the effects of this spell the target must pass a “Strength of Mind” test

The Mind test as stated on the spell cards uses combat dice, but this breaches the principle around use of combat dice only for situations in which the loss of Body or Mind points is a potential direct result and the use of the red dice for all other situations.

The Mind test as stated on the spell cards doesn’t explicitly state whether the Mind point value being used is Starting or Current.
*Strength of Mind Test added to rulebook Spell Casting 2:1, clarification around Current or Starting Mind Points, converted to use Red Dice
*Modifications to Spell Card text to refer to standardised Strength of Mind test – Grimoire 10,16-19
Examples.
Command, Sleep spells – “The spell can be broken immediately or on a future turn by the Hero rolling one red die for each of his Mind Points. If a 6 is rolled, the spell is broken.”
Fear spell – “The spell can be broken by the Hero on a future turn by rolling one red die for each of his Mind Points. If a 6 is rolled, the spell is broken.”
Subtly different text for a subtly different rule – it would be better to either have one common rule in place here or two rules with clearly identifiable and different text.

Discussion link: Inconsistent Spell Break Mechanism for "Mind Attack Spells"

Suggested changes:

Identify all the spells that use a spell break mechanism involving Mind and add a "Mind Attack" label then reword the spell card text to refer to the new Mind Combat rules in the rulebook

Mind Combat
Some spells involve Mind Combat and are labelled as such. This represents the battle of wills between characters to impose and to resist effects and uses the standard combat mechanism with the Mind Point characteristic rather than the usual Attack and Defend Dice.
The attacker rolls a number of combat dice equal to their mind value, counting skulls, the defender rolls a number of dice equal to their mind value counting shields (black for monsters, white for heroes). Any excess skulls rolled by the attacker indicate the number of lost Body points or the number of turns that the effects last for, see specific spell description for details.


Implemented changes:

# [0.0.14] - 2023-06-21 - Fixed Problem #32

###Changed

- Scrolls (Spell Card: Sleep): Added "Mind Attack" label and changed text to "This spell will put one character into a deep sleep. See Mind Combat in the Book of Spellcasting for full details. The number of excess skulls rolled by the caster indicates the number of turns that the spell effects last. Once asleep they may not move, attack, defend or take any actions but will awaken automatically if they survive an attack."
- Scrolls (Spell Card: Madness): Added "Mind Attack" label and changed text to "This spell may be cast on any one character affecting it with a frightening madness. See Mind Combat in the Book of Spellcasting for full details. The number of excess skulls rolled by the caster indicates the number of turns that the spell effects last. The caster may then move that character on that character’s turn, although the affected character may not attack or cast spells but may defend as usual."
- Scrolls (Spell Card: Fear): Added "Mind Attack" label and changed text to "This spell will fill one character with a paralysing terror. See Mind Combat in the Book of Spellcasting for full details. The number of excess skulls rolled by the caster indicates the number of turns that the spell effects last. Once paralysed they may not move, attack, defend, or perform any other actions on their turn, but will awaken automatically if they survive an attack."
- Scrolls (Spell Card: Mind Lock): Added "Mind Attack" label and changed text to "This spell will lock the mind of the target and prevent them from taking any action. See Mind Combat in the Book of Spellcasting for full details. The number of excess skulls rolled by the caster indicates the number of turns that the spell effects last. A Mind Locked character places one Mind Lock token on their character board for each turn they are affected, removing one for each of their turns. A mind locked character may not move, attack, defend, or perform any other action, but will be released from the lock automatically if they survive an attack."
- Scrolls (Spell Card: Dominate): Added "Mind Attack" label and changed text to "This spell allows the caster to take control of the target. See Mind Combat in the Book of Spellcasting for full details. The number of excess skulls rolled by the caster indicates the number of turns that the spell effects last. If they are successful, the Evil Wizard player places a Dominate counter on the character’s board and may move that character on their turn. They may move and attack with the character as normal and may attack the other characters with them but may not cast spells."
- Scrolls (Spell Card: Mind Blast): Added "Mind Attack" label and changed text to "This spell allows the caster to inflict damage on another character without having to be next to him or physically attacking him. See Mind Combat in the Book of Spellcasting for full details. The number of excess skulls rolled by the caster indicates the number of Body points lost by the target."
Last edited by Bareheaded Warrior on August 29th, 2023, 5:52 am, edited 4 times in total.
:skull: = white skull, one "hit"
:blackshield: = black skull, one "hit"
:whiteshield: = shield, cancels out one "hit"

Editions: 1989 Original First Edition [FE] and Second Edition [SE], 1990 Remake [US], 2021 Remake [21]

HeroQuest Gold new edition based on Original 1989 HeroQuest, holes patched, dents hammered out, buffed to a shiny finish with ~50 common issues fixed for a smoother experience.

HQ Common Notification System to identify squares on the board
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Re: Polishing the Second Edition

Postby Bareheaded Warrior » May 13th, 2023, 6:55 am

#33: The Mind Point Mechanism is underutilised and flawed - RESOLVED

Problem Statement: Mind points are under-utilised particularly in earlier Quests and if you do make them more utilised you realise the mechanism is flawed

The first time that Mind Points are used in a situation that can result in the death of a Hero is towards the end of KK (Quest 9 to be precise) and that doesn't happen again until you get to ATOH. ATOH is the first of the later Quests where it appears a conscious decision was made to fully utilise Mind Points, at last (possibly off the back of feedback from the earlier packs). At the same time, it appears that a decision was made to implement the Shock Rules which appear in the this and the later quest books, Frozen Horror (BQP), Mage of the Mirror (EQP). Some members of the forum have also stated that they use the Shock Rules for WoM also (although they don't actually appear in that Quest Book). This isn't an exception to a standard set of rules used for a single Quest or Quest Book, it feels more like a permanent switch to a new ruleset, so you have to ask yourself why the change?

The starting Wizard with DD2, BP4 is intentionally the weakest of all in terms of physical survivability and scrapes the bottom of the barrel in this respect, his stats represent the minimum practical for a Hero in terms of this aspect of stats. Later, certainly by the time you get to ATOH, even he is upgraded to 3DD or 4DD, possibly more depending on your edition, but still thematically represents the minimum practical values for a Hero in this aspect.
Then in ATOH and onwards where the decision is made to actually fully utilise MP, it rapidly becomes obvious that our Barbarian with his 2MP (effectively 2DD and 2BP in corresponding physical terms) is woefully under-powered, not just weak in that respect which is thematically desirable but is half the strength of our starting Wizard's stats, the minimum practical standard for a Hero (and by that point the Dwarf's Mind aspect is also half that of the Wizards current body equivalents) so the method is revealed as flawed hence the creation of the shock rules.

Discussion link:
Change of Mind

Proposed Solution:
*Replace the Mind Points [MP] characteristic with a Mind Dice [MD] characteristic (all values remain the same) and that Mind Dice [MD] characteristic works in exactly the same way as Attack Dice [AD] and Defend Dice [DD], although it is the same value used for both Attack and Defend, and that Body Points [BP] remains the pool of points that get lost and restored and dropping to zero results in your death.
*All references to losing (or restoring) Mind Points modified to become a reference to losing (or restoring) Body Points

This clears up the discussions around needing to create a new Zero Mind Point rule for the rulebook (and how that is applied in the various Quest Books), needing a change to the character sheet to track Mind Points, needing to define another special exception to the 'saving yourself from death' rules and removes the need for the 'Shock' rules in their entirety and rebalances the game with respect to Mind so that it can be fully utilised in any and all Homebrew Quests.

Implemented changes:

# [0.0.14] - 2023-06-21 - Fixed Problem #33

###Added

- Rulebook (Book of Spell Casting: Mind Combat): Some spells labelled with “Mind Attack” are targeted directly at the mind of the victim and attempt to dominate them through force of Will. This process works in a similar way to normal combat, with the caster rolling a number of combat dice equal to their Mind value, counting Skulls and the target rolling a number of combat dice equal to their Mind value, counting Shields. Excess Skulls rolled by the caster will determine the amount of damage or the duration of the spell effects, the number of turns the spell lasts for, see specific Spell Cards for details.

###Changed

- Rulebook (Book of Heroes: Character Boards and Sheets): Changed the following text "Mind Points are a measure of a character’s wisdom and a measure of a character’s magical aptitude. They show how well they can use magic and, more importantly, how well they can resist it. Enter the number shown into the Mind box on your character sheet. During the game you may gain or lose Mind points. Keep track of your current score on your character sheet. If the total ever reaches zero, your hero is eliminated." with "This is a measure of your hero’s wisdom and magical aptitude. They show how well they can use magic and, more importantly, how well they can resist it. The value indicates the number of combat dice you roll when attacking or defending in Mind Combat"
- Scrolls (Spell Card: Sleep): Added "Mind Attack" label and changed text from "This spell will put one character to sleep. They may try to defend themselves by rolling one die per Mind point. If they roll a shield, they are unaffected. Once asleep they may not defend if attacked. They will awake if they roll a six at the start of their turn, or if attacked. " to "This spell will put one character to sleep. See Mind Combat in the Book of Spell Casting for full details. The number of excess skulls rolled by the caster indicates the number of turns that the spell effects last. Once asleep they may not defend if attacked. They will awake if they are attacked."
- Scrolls (Monster Card: All): Added the word "die" or "dice" to the value under "Mind" and added the word "point" or "points" to the Body value and swapped the order of th two characteristics
- Scrolls (Character Card: All): Altered the text to reflect "Mind - throw 2 Combat dice."
- Scrolls (Quest Treasure Card: Talisman of Lore): Altered text to reflect two extra mind dice

###Removed
- Scrolls (Spell Card: Mind Blast): If a character loses all their Mind points because of a Mind Blast, they are knocked unconscious and remains out of play for the rest of that Quest. Mind points are recovered between Quests in the same way as Body points." The first sentence has been removed as no rules are provided for handling unconscious characters, the second sentence as it just repeats a sentence already contained within the rulebook.
Last edited by Bareheaded Warrior on June 21st, 2023, 4:40 am, edited 4 times in total.
:skull: = white skull, one "hit"
:blackshield: = black skull, one "hit"
:whiteshield: = shield, cancels out one "hit"

Editions: 1989 Original First Edition [FE] and Second Edition [SE], 1990 Remake [US], 2021 Remake [21]

HeroQuest Gold new edition based on Original 1989 HeroQuest, holes patched, dents hammered out, buffed to a shiny finish with ~50 common issues fixed for a smoother experience.

HQ Common Notification System to identify squares on the board
User avatar
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Re: Polishing the Second Edition

Postby Bareheaded Warrior » May 14th, 2023, 4:49 am

#34 No explicit rule around Switching Weapons - RESOLVED

Discussion link: Carrying and changing equipment during a quest

Additional material:

switching between bow and sword

Proposed solution:
Bareheaded Warrior wrote:You select your weapon as an integral part of your attack action, that is you attack a specific character with a specific weapon which includes equipping yourself with that weapon. You cannot change weapons outside of that.


Implemented changes:

## [0.0.12] - 2023-06-06 - Fixed Problem #34

###Added

- Rulebook (Book of Combat: Attacking): If you are equipped with more than one weapon you may only use one weapon to attack but can select which weapon as part of your attack. For example, “I’m going to attack that Orc with my Battle axe”. You cannot change your weapon selection outside of the attack action.
Last edited by Bareheaded Warrior on June 6th, 2023, 4:38 am, edited 3 times in total.
:skull: = white skull, one "hit"
:blackshield: = black skull, one "hit"
:whiteshield: = shield, cancels out one "hit"

Editions: 1989 Original First Edition [FE] and Second Edition [SE], 1990 Remake [US], 2021 Remake [21]

HeroQuest Gold new edition based on Original 1989 HeroQuest, holes patched, dents hammered out, buffed to a shiny finish with ~50 common issues fixed for a smoother experience.

HQ Common Notification System to identify squares on the board
User avatar
Bareheaded Warrior

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Posts: 1012
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Re: Polishing the Second Edition

Postby Bareheaded Warrior » May 19th, 2023, 4:10 am

#35 Jumping occupied pit traps - RESOLVED

Problem statement: Under Second Edition rules there is no stated restriction around attempting to jump a pit that is occupied. However doing so may result in you failing the jump and being placed into the pit, which breaks the existing rule around sharing the same space which is not allowed.

Discussion link: Jumping over occupied pit traps

Additional material:
Monsters jumping pit traps?

Implemented changes:

## [0.0.12] - 2023-06-06 - Fixed Problem #35

###Added

- Rulebook (Book of Exploration: Jumping a Pit): Added the text "and the pit square itself must be unoccupied."
:skull: = white skull, one "hit"
:blackshield: = black skull, one "hit"
:whiteshield: = shield, cancels out one "hit"

Editions: 1989 Original First Edition [FE] and Second Edition [SE], 1990 Remake [US], 2021 Remake [21]

HeroQuest Gold new edition based on Original 1989 HeroQuest, holes patched, dents hammered out, buffed to a shiny finish with ~50 common issues fixed for a smoother experience.

HQ Common Notification System to identify squares on the board
User avatar
Bareheaded Warrior

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Posts: 1012
Joined: December 8th, 2013, 11:12 am
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