Saving HeroQuest - RandoQuest?

[Davane]

Many people share the same ideas, and try to work on them as best they using the methods that they are comfortable with. It doesn't matter who has done it before or how many times it has been done.

People talk about reinventing the wheel, but they miss the point. Sometimes you aren't trying to reinvent the wheel, you are just making your own copy of the wheel so you can see how it was done. Every iteration, by every generation, essentially reinvents the wheel by refining it and adapting it for their own purposes. The main point of making wheels is so that you can learn to make wheels faster, and hopefully better.

Right now, I am going through the deep dive of the HQ English Rules, so I can see how the system fits. For a game that's been out for over 30 years now, I would be surprised if somebody HADN'T already done this. I'm processing and talking about the HQ rules, the differences between the editions, and it's quirks, so that I have a base HQ system to work from.

You are right - the HQ conflict resolution system isn't that much different from any other target number success based system. if I recall correctly, Shadowrun uses a similar system using D6s, and the World of Darkness system uses a similar system with D10s. But that's not the whole of the HQ system. That's like saying the whole D20 system is rolling a d20 and adding modifiers to beat a difficulty score. Sure, that's the bases of conflict resolution for D20-based systems, but there's a LOT more to the system than that.

For example, there's the move - attack action system, where you can either move then attack or attack then move. It's a very simple system, and all sorts of games have been using it for generations. It comes from board games and wargames, although in many cases, the flexibility of the move attack system used by HQ is typically ignored. For example, Basic D&D (reprinted in the 1990s with the D&D Rules Cyclopedia) had the set movement pattern that players were teams, with a leader who would tell the GM what they were doing. The GM would then break it down into the following process: Movement, Ranged Attacks, Magic Attacks, Melee Attacks, Other Actions. You could move and make one action, but if something happened and you wanted to change your mind about what you were doing, you couldn't go back up the process - so if you decided you didn't want to cast a spell after all, you could make a melee attack or do something else like drink a potion, but you couldn't make a ranged attack, even throwing a dagger, until your next turn.

The core HQ action system is quite simple, since each Hero player takes a turn, where they can move and attack, or attack and move. Once each Hero players has taken a turn, the Evil Wizard player then takes their turn, where they do the same process with all visible monsters, and deal with other effects as the quest requires. This is a fairly standard set up, and integrates nicely with AHQ and WHQ, both of which use a similar approach - with the exception that you get an Exploration Phase to deal with revealing the dungeon. WHQ also includes a Power Phase, ostensibly for spellcasting, but mostly for random events.

I can see how the three games are able to integrate, into a universal system. Being able to visualise something helps me make it real, and that's what I do. That's what I want to do. There are going to be several steps, of which this is merely the first. The foundation is HQ - the combat dice conflict resolution, move/attack action system, and card-driven gameplay. That's the core - what AHQ and WHQ add to that will come later, because there are some good ideas in those games, but in terms of simplicity and accessibility, HQ is still the best game in terms of mechanics, because it's so simple and so visual.

AHQ lacked that visual appeal outside of the modular dungeon sections, and WHQ abandoned that visual style to become much more abstract if you wanted to do more than just explore a dungeon with some friends. It doesn't matter if this has been done before, the point is that I am doing it now, slowly, and will see where we go with it.

[Davane]

I've been on this site for long enough and seen enough "improvements" to make a definitive version of HQ rules to know that any attempt is not going to take hold for more than a handful of other people. We all have different ideas about what we want in the game and every other version falls short in some ways. So it becomes just another new set of rules.

You make it sound like this is an issue? The problem is thinking that there has to be one definitive standard, that covers everything. A swiss army knife. But we've never been like that - we change and adapt things to what we need them to do. That's why house rules are so prolific - every person wants different things.

If my rules and ideas help some else tailor their game better, that's good, but in the end, that's not the point.

[cornixt]

You make it sound like this is an issue?

I was trying really hard not to make it seem like an issue, which was why I specifically said that there was nothing wrong with it. If it wasn't the case, we'd all have been using a new finalised set of rules for years instead of dozens of our own hodgepodge interpretations and homebrew. Keep going with what you have so far, I think we are all interested to see where it leads.

[iKarith]

I don't happen to own WHQ as it was $lol a decade ago. I guess there is a modern release using those rules, but I haven't got it either. What I did find was this:

Warhammer Quest rules:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0k4c9z5SO8Zd0JzT1hDZVNoaHM/view

I have no idea if I should keep looking or not.

If you're a scribd member, this is available for AHQ:
https://www.scribd.com/document/325087581/Advanced-Heroquest-Rules

This doesn't look like the rulebook that came in my AHQ box:
https://files.site-fusion.co.uk/webfusion103178/file/ahqsecondedition.pdf

This project has "tweaked" rules, but we've already discussed that when you "tweak" the rules, not everyone's going to like the result:
https://ahqreforged.blogspot.com/p/get-rules.html

This one's "Enhanced" … Gonna have the same problems I suspect.
https://enhancedadvancedheroquest.blogspot.com/p/downloads.html

While I'm at links, here's something I haven't seen before for HeroQuest:
https://www.bowserbag.com/heroquest/Hero%20Quest%20Rules.PDF

I really should start collecting links. A few of these are kind of broken now (like the links HeroScribe site and the image links here on this site, actually…) Maybe we can, when we know who runs the sites, get them fixed up and working. Maybe when we can't we should try to find the info that was on them and get it somewhere people can find it, if it still exists?

Data preservation is another of my hobbies.

[Davane]

Thank you for the support. As it stands, I have copies of the base rules for HQ, AHQ, and WHQ. Unfortunately, they have all been expensive replacements from Ebay, back when I had a lot of spare income, because my original set of WHQ (which included everything made for it that was a "figue and rulez" deal or the Pits and Traps "expansion"), of AHQ, and of HQ (1st edition) all got ruined. I can find PDFs for the two EPs for Warhammer Quest easily enough, but they should probably be preserved by a site like Ye Olde Inn or something similar - I don't think they exist on The Trove, which is my favourite archiving and reference site for RPG and games. I was even lucky enough to nab a copy of Terror in the Dark, which went OoP before I even started gaming (I started with AHQ, and picked up HQ a few months later, along with the D&D Black Box edition. 1991 was a big year for me, because that's when I truly became a gamer beyond just video games, and the tender age of 10...

[Davane]

Wow, it's been a bit of a while since I updated this project... Okay, on with the show! Finally, we get to Way of the Scout, which essentially contains the rest of the rules. I'm going to break this up into separate chunks for comparison.

The Quest Book
This book should be kept hidden from the player characters. It contains details of a number of Quests - showing the evil wizard player which monsters he has to control for each Quest and where they start of the board. You will not be using this book until you have learned how the rest of the game works. How to use the Quest Book is explained later in these rules.

The Quest Book
The Quest Book contains 14 separate Quests - adventures with different objectives that the player characters must achieve in order to win. Each Quest show a map of the underground stronghold where the action takes place. The maps are marked with symbols showing the starting positions of monsters which are controlled by the evil wizard player. These symbols are the same as those on the monster cards. The maps also show where to place the furniture pieces, doors, and blocked square tiles. In addition, there are symbols for traps, secret doors, and treasure chests. These symbols are also shown on the evil wizard player's screen.

The Maze
Turn to the Quest called the Maze. This is a final test for the player characters before they begin their adventures proper. The evil wizard player reads the text in bold type to the other players. This is how all the Quests start. The evil wizard should also read through the other notes before the game begins. In some Quests these notes will contain details of special rules that only apply to that Quest.

To play the Maze, each player places his model in one corner of the board. The evil wizard player checks the map and places on the board any pieces (doors, furniture, monsters, blocked squares) that are visible to any of the player characters. Do not put out any secret door or trap tiles. The player characters can only find these by searching.

As the players move their models, the evil wizard player must keep checking the map and put out an pieces that become visible.

The Quests
Once you have played through the Maze, you are ready to undertake the other Quests. These should be played in the order in which they appear.

As with the Maze, each begins with a section in bold type which the evil player reads out loud to the other players. He should also read through the other notes which detail, for example, where certain special treasures are hidden, how powerful a monster is, and whether there are any special rules that apply to that quest.

Setting up a Quest
Usually the player characters start from the room marked with the stairway tile. In some Quests, however, the player characters start from a different room. The Quest details will explain what to do in these cases.

The stairway leads out of the stronghold to safety. Place the stairway tile in the room shown. The player characters place their models on any square next to the stairway. The contents of this room (barring any traps, secret doors, or treasure) should be laid out at the beginning of the game. All doors are closed. No pieces outside this room are placed on the board. These should only be set up when the player characters can see them by moving into a new room or passage.

Wow, okay, deep breath. That's FIVE separate sections just to describe Quests in the first edition of the UK rules. Admittedly, some of this can be safely ignored, as it serves to sign post where other information about Quests can be found, but it's still a bit confusing. Plus, the instructional nature of the rules of play at this time mean that there's a LOT of repetition of information needed for Quests. We may need to look at each edition separately here, as we gather all the information we need for the HeroQuest Combined English Edition Rulebook (HQ CURB).

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The Quest Book
The Quest book is used by the evil wizard player and contains a number of Quests. There are three main parts to each Quest:
(i) Parchment text
The parchment text outlines the heroes' challenge as well as the reward they will receive if they are successful. This is read aloud by the evil wizard player at the beginning of the game.
(ii) Quest Map
The Quest map shows how the board is to be laid out. The symbols used on the maps for furniture are identified on the inside of the screen. The symbols for the monsters are identified on the monster cards.
Only the room with the stairway tile is placed onto the board at the start of the game. As the character players move around the board the evil wizard player must consult the Quest map to see what should be placed into each room and passageway.
(iii) Notes
Finally there are a number of notes for each Quest. The evil wizard player should quickly glance through these at the start of each Quest. The notes will explain what happens in certain rooms and provide unique situations for the character players to deal with.

Introductory Game
The Introductory game allows you to play your first adventure. The Introductory game does not use any of the playing cards other than the Monster cards. Read the rules through carefully before you begin to play.

Preparing for Play
The stairway is the entrance into and out of the stronghold. The character players place their miniatures on any square next to the stairway tile. The contents of this room should be laid out at the beginning of the game. All doors should be closed. No other pieces outside this room should be placed on the board. These should only be set up when they become visible to the characters.

The Trial
You are now ready to play your first Quest. One player must take the role of the evil wizard player. He must read aloud the parchment text for the first adventure in the Quest book, "The Trial". He should then read through the notes (these are not read aloud to the character players). The game then begins with the player to the left of the evil wizard.

The Full Game
Now you have played your first Quest you are ready to learn the rest of the game rules.

The Quests
Once you have played through "The Trial" you are ready to undertake the other Quests. These should be played in the order they appear in the Quest Book.

As with "The Trial" each Quest begins with the evil wizard player reading the text in the parchment panel. He should also read through the other notes which detail, for example, where certain special treasures are hidden, how powerful a monster is, and whether there are any special rules that apply to that Quest.

Setting up a Quest
Usually the character players start from the room marked with the stairway tile. In some Quests, however, the character players start from a different room. The Quest details will explain what to do in these cases. The contents of the first room (barring any traps, secret doors, or treasure) should be laid out at the beginning of the game.

SEVEN different sections on Quests?! Admittedly, a lot of these sections run on from one another, but it's still confusing. There's a LOT of similarities between the working of the 1st and 2nd Editions of the game, but there's also some significant differences, so it's not the necessarily the case that big chunks of this text have been have simply been copied and pasted from one edition to the other, without at least some rewriting. Something to explore later when we compare editions?

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Under 'What Makes Hero Quest Unique':

• A game for 2 to 5 players, Hero Quest is played in 14 sequential game playing sessions called Quests. Each Quest is described in detail in the Quest Book.
• One Quest may take an hour or two to play, with each subsequent Quests increasing in difficulty.

Under 'Zargon - Setting Up the Game':
7. Place the Quest Book on the table between you and the Information Screen.
8. Seperate all of the assembled doors, furniture, the monsters, and all of the cardboard tiles into 4 groups or piles.
Note: For a quick identification of the monsters, refer to the last page of the Quest Book.
9. Study the Quest Map. Place on the gameboard only this things that go into the starting room (usually the room with the stairway). Note: Do NOT put out an traps or secret doors. Do NOT reveal treasure at this time.

Z - To Begin The Quest
Zargon, read the Parchment Text section of Quest 1 from the Quest Book aloud to the Heroes. It is important that the Heroes understand the history behind the Quest and the goal set before them.

Important: Only read aloud the Parchment Text section. The information contained in the Quest Map and the Quest Notes must, for now, be kept secret from the Heroes.

Interesting, the US edition of HeroQuest has a lot less information on Quests and the Quest Book than the UK Edition, with most of it being covered during game setup and starting the Quest. I do note, however, that some of what was covered in the UK edition Rules of Play actually ended up as flavor text under Mentor's "Words from Zargon" along with some of the other rules of the game such as combat and spellcasting. Not sure I like the overlap between flavour text and rules there, since it makes the US Edition of the Rules very fourth-wall breaking, even though the rules themselves have a more roleplaying vibe.

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Time to put them all together...

The Quest Book
This book should be kept hidden from the player characters. It contains details of a number of Quests - showing the evil wizard player which monsters he has to control for each Quest and where they start of the board. You will not be using this book until you have learned how the rest of the game works. How to use the Quest Book is explained later in these rules.

The Quest Book
The Quest Book contains 14 separate Quests - adventures with different objectives that the player characters must achieve in order to win. Each Quest show a map of the underground stronghold where the action takes place. The maps are marked with symbols showing the starting positions of monsters which are controlled by the evil wizard player. These symbols are the same as those on the monster cards. The maps also show where to place the furniture pieces, doors, and blocked square tiles. In addition, there are symbols for traps, secret doors, and treasure chests. These symbols are also shown on the evil wizard player's screen.

The Maze
Turn to the Quest called the Maze. This is a final test for the player characters before they begin their adventures proper. The evil wizard player reads the text in bold type to the other players. This is how all the Quests start. The evil wizard should also read through the other notes before the game begins. In some Quests these notes will contain details of special rules that only apply to that Quest.

To play the Maze, each player places his model in one corner of the board. The evil wizard player checks the map and places on the board any pieces (doors, furniture, monsters, blocked squares) that are visible to any of the player characters. Do not put out any secret door or trap tiles. The player characters can only find these by searching.

As the players move their models, the evil wizard player must keep checking the map and put out an pieces that become visible.

The Quests
Once you have played through the Maze, you are ready to undertake the other Quests. These should be played in the order in which they appear.

As with the Maze, each begins with a section in bold type which the evil player reads out loud to the other players. He should also read through the other notes which detail, for example, where certain special treasures are hidden, how powerful a monster is, and whether there are any special rules that apply to that quest.

Setting up a Quest
Usually the player characters start from the room marked with the stairway tile. In some Quests, however, the player characters start from a different room. The Quest details will explain what to do in these cases.

The stairway leads out of the stronghold to safety. Place the stairway tile in the room shown. The player characters place their models on any square next to the stairway. The contents of this room (barring any traps, secret doors, or treasure) should be laid out at the beginning of the game. All doors are closed. No pieces outside this room are placed on the board. These should only be set up when the player characters can see them by moving into a new room or passage.

The Quest Book
The Quest book is used by the evil wizard player and contains a number of Quests. There are three main parts to each Quest:
(i) Parchment text
The parchment text outlines the heroes' challenge as well as the reward they will receive if they are successful. This is read aloud by the evil wizard player at the beginning of the game.
(ii) Quest Map
The Quest map shows how the board is to be laid out. The symbols used on the maps for furniture are identified on the inside of the screen. The symbols for the monsters are identified on the monster cards.
Only the room with the stairway tile is placed onto the board at the start of the game. As the character players move around the board the evil wizard player must consult the Quest map to see what should be placed into each room and passageway.
(iii) Notes
Finally there are a number of notes for each Quest. The evil wizard player should quickly glance through these at the start of each Quest. The notes will explain what happens in certain rooms and provide unique situations for the character players to deal with.

Introductory Game
The Introductory game allows you to play your first adventure. The Introductory game does not use any of the playing cards other than the Monster cards. Read the rules through carefully before you begin to play.

Preparing for Play
The stairway is the entrance into and out of the stronghold. The character players place their miniatures on any square next to the stairway tile. The contents of this room should be laid out at the beginning of the game. All doors should be closed. No other pieces outside this room should be placed on the board. These should only be set up when they become visible to the characters.

The Trial
You are now ready to play your first Quest. One player must take the role of the evil wizard player. He must read aloud the parchment text for the first adventure in the Quest book, "The Trial". He should then read through the notes (these are not read aloud to the character players). The game then begins with the player to the left of the evil wizard.

The Full Game
Now you have played your first Quest you are ready to learn the rest of the game rules.

The Quests
Once you have played through "The Trial" you are ready to undertake the other Quests. These should be played in the order they appear in the Quest Book.

As with "The Trial" each Quest begins with the evil wizard player reading the text in the parchment panel. He should also read through the other notes which detail, for example, where certain special treasures are hidden, how powerful a monster is, and whether there are any special rules that apply to that Quest.

Setting up a Quest
Usually the character players start from the room marked with the stairway tile. In some Quests, however, the character players start from a different room. The Quest details will explain what to do in these cases. The contents of the first room (barring any traps, secret doors, or treasure) should be laid out at the beginning of the game.

Under 'What Makes Hero Quest Unique':

• A game for 2 to 5 players, Hero Quest is played in 14 sequential game playing sessions called Quests. Each Quest is described in detail in the Quest Book.
• One Quest may take an hour or two to play, with each subsequent Quests increasing in difficulty.

Under 'Zargon - Setting Up the Game':
7. Place the Quest Book on the table between you and the Information Screen.
8. Seperate all of the assembled doors, furniture, the monsters, and all of the cardboard tiles into 4 groups or piles.
Note: For a quick identification of the monsters, refer to the last page of the Quest Book.
9. Study the Quest Map. Place on the gameboard only this things that go into the starting room (usually the room with the stairway). Note: Do NOT put out an traps or secret doors. Do NOT reveal treasure at this time.

Z - To Begin The Quest
Zargon, read the Parchment Text section of Quest 1 from the Quest Book aloud to the Heroes. It is important that the Heroes understand the history behind the Quest and the goal set before them.

Important: Only read aloud the Parchment Text section. The information contained in the Quest Map and the Quest Notes must, for now, be kept secret from the Heroes.

Looking at the three editions, we can see two very different takes on the information about the Quests and the Quest Book. The US edition is very sparse, dealing with everything important as part of setting up and playing the game itself, rather than as a section of rules in it's own right. In contrast, the information in the UK editions are very detailed, very instructional, and very repetitive. The UK version feature a lot of redundancy, and a lot of sign posting dedicated to the layout of the specific edition, including detailed information on how to play the first quest of each edition - "The Maze" and the "The Trial" respectively. A lot of what we will have to do is strip out the redundancies and the specifics, so that we only have the general information about quests that we can use.

This gives us a final Quests section as follows for the HeroQuest Combined English Edition Rule Book:

Quests
HeroQuest is played in sequential game playing sessions called Quests. Each Quest is described in detail in the Quest Book.

The Quest Book
This book contains details of a number of separate Quests - showing the evil wizard player which monsters he has to control for each Quest and where they start on the board. These Quests should be played in the order in which they appear. One Quest may take an hour or two to play, with each subsequent Quests increasing in difficulty.

The Quest Book should be kept hidden from the player characters, as it shows the evil wizard player which monsters he has to control for each Quest and where they start on the board.

There are three main parts to each Quest:
(i) Parchment text
The Parchment Text of each Quest outlines the Heroes' challenge, as well as the reward they will receive if they are successful. This is read aloud by the evil wizard player at the beginning of the game. It is important that the Heroes understand the history behind the Quest, and the goal set before them.

Important: Only read aloud the Parchment Text section. The information contained in the Quest Map and the Quest Notes must, for now, be kept secret from the Heroes.

(ii) Quest Map
Each Quest has a map of the underground stronghold where the action takes place. This Quest map shows how the board is to be laid out.

The maps are marked with symbols showing the starting positions of monsters which are controlled by the evil wizard player. These symbols are the same as those on the monster cards.

The maps also show where to place the furniture pieces, doors, and blocked square tiles. In addition, there are symbols for traps, secret doors, and treasure chests. These symbols are also shown on the evil wizard player's screen.

(iii)Quest Notes
Finally there are a number of notes for each Quest. The evil wizard player should quickly glance through these at the start of each Quest. The notes will explain what happens in certain rooms and provide unique situations for the character players to deal with. The Quest Notes may detail, for example, where certain special treasures are hidden, how powerful a monster is, and whether there are any special rules that apply to that quest.

Setting up a Quest
Usually the player characters start from the room marked with the stairway tile. The stairway is normally the entrance into and out of the stronghold, and leads out of the stronghold to safety. If this is the case, place the stairway tile in the room shown. The player characters place their models on any square next to the stairway.

In some Quests, however, the player characters start from a different room. The Quest Notes will explain what to do in these cases, and the player characters should place their models as directed by the notes.

The remaining contents of the first room (barring any traps, secret doors, or treasure) should be laid out at the beginning of the game. Note: Do NOT put out any traps or secret doors. Do NOT reveal treasure at this time.

All doors should be closed. No other pieces outside this room are placed on the board. These should only be set up when they become visible to the characters, as they can see them by moving into a new room or passage.

Running a Quest
As the Heroes move around the board, the evil wizard player must keep checking the Quest Map to see what should be placed into each room and passageway. He places on the board any pieces (doors, furniture, monsters, blocked squares) that become visible to any of the player characters. Do not put out any secret door or trap tiles, and do not reveal any treasure. The player characters can only find these by searching.

Okay, that was a bit of a tour de force there, but we have the makings of a good section about Quests, despite the mess that the various instructions made of it due to their varying layouts and structures. It's worth noting that the information noted under "Running a Quest" is essentially the line of sight rules for exploration and movement, and thus may be moved to that section instead. For now, it remains under Quests.

[iKarith]

I think you're spotting a trend I found in both UK editions of the rules toward repetition. This creates confusion. Repetition is sometimes good—repetition is the key to learning, he says with his teacher hat on, and then immediately repeats it again—but for repetition to be effective as a teaching tool you must realize that this isn't new material. That's not always clear.

That's kind of why I suggested distilling each rule set, separately, into something like cornixt's two-page rule set. If you follow the same format for each, it'll be really apparent where the rules differ for each of the three English releases and, by necessity, all of the repetition would be eliminated. So would be all flavor text (again, you're correct that the US release freely mixes mechanics and flavor text …) But this allows recreation of the flavor text (and any other rules) however you like, and without mixing the two.

This might not be what you're after for your project at all, but it might just serve those of us who were talking about a legally unencumbered rule set we can tweak to our heart's content and use in other games without stepping on Hasbro's toes because it's just a set of common mechanics that could be applied to any game. One could then modify those generic rules to once again match those of one of the HeroQuest variants … but again it kinda sounds like a couple of us are trying to insert ourselves into your project. What you're doing is interesting on its own.

[Davane]

I think you're spotting a trend I found in both UK editions of the rules toward repetition. This creates confusion. Repetition is sometimes good—repetition is the key to learning, he says with his teacher hat on, and then immediately repeats it again—but for repetition to be effective as a teaching tool you must realize that this isn't new material. That's not always clear.

That's kind of why I suggested distilling each rule set, separately, into something like cornixt's two-page rule set. If you follow the same format for each, it'll be really apparent where the rules differ for each of the three English releases and, by necessity, all of the repetition would be eliminated. So would be all flavor text (again, you're correct that the US release freely mixes mechanics and flavor text …) But this allows recreation of the flavor text (and any other rules) however you like, and without mixing the two.

This might not be what you're after for your project at all, but it might just serve those of us who were talking about a legally unencumbered rule set we can tweak to our heart's content and use in other games without stepping on Hasbro's toes because it's just a set of common mechanics that could be applied to any game. One could then modify those generic rules to once again match those of one of the HeroQuest variants … but again it kinda sounds like a couple of us are trying to insert ourselves into your project. What you're doing is interesting on its own.

Actually, that's EXACTLY what I am currently doing with this project - attempting to distil the core rules for each game down into similar formats that can then be combined as desired. The similarity between the gameplay loops for the games, means it's fairly easy to see what information relates between each game, and how it can be combined into a universal system of sorts.

I can understand the repetition in the UK 1st edition a bit more, as the rules of play was supposed to be instructional, so you'd learn what was needed to get right into playing, and then update those rules as you learnt more. That's a LOT easier than trying to learn all the rules at once, but doesn't serve well as a reference tool, because you are building on what you are supposed to have already learnt, and therefore need to keep flipping between sections. Add in expansions and supplements, and sifting through a body of rules for any sort of extensive system can become extremely tiresome.

I am currently saving these as raw test files to compile later. I am not sure how I am going to present them yet. I could lay out an instruction manual, but a wiki might be easier to use and share - and, to update, if necessary...

[Davane]

Moving on, I am going to cover the section on moving around the board. We've already covered movement itself, but what Moving Around the Board represents is Exploration, rather than actual movement. In AHQ and WHQ, this would become a separate phase in it's own right - the Exploration Phase. In HQ, it's really as simple as saying "give the Evil Wizard time to place stuff," before going back to a Hero's turn, which is okay when everything is pre-mapped, but decidedly longer when using any form of random generation. Many board games use a seperate Exploration phase as it really prevents Heroes from running too far ahead, spreading too far apart, and helps break the game down into turns that little bit better, especially when Exploration comes either before or after the GM Phase, depending on the game. Ultimately, Exploration can be seen as a subsection of the GM Phase...

Moving Around the Board
As the characters explore Morcar's dungeons, they enter new rooms and passages. If you are the first player to enter a new room or passageway, you should give the evil wizard player enough time to consult the Quest book and place onto the board any visible monsters and furniture.

Moving Around the Board
As the character players move around the gameboard they enter new rooms and passages. If you are the first player to enter a new room or passageway, you should give the evil wizard player enough time to consult the Quest book and place onto the board any visible monsters and furniture.

Z - How Zargon Reacts to Hero Movement
As Zargon, you must carefully watch a Hero's movement. Continually refer to the Quest Map in the Quest Book. When a Hero "looks" down a corridor, place on the gameboard any closed doors, blocked square tiles, and monsters that are directly within the Hero's line of sight. When a Hero opens a door, place on the gameboard the monsters, treasure chests, and any other items that belong in that room. Note: Do not put out any traps or secret doors. Do not reveal treasure at this time.

Quick note, the US version of the rules organises things slightly differently to the UK version, focusing much more on the Hero-Evil Wizard interplay. Thus, there's a seperate section for Heroes Looking and Opening Doors, and for the Evil Wizard reacting to looking and opening doors. In the UK rules, Moving Around the Board covers both the Hero and Evil Wizard's duties when it comes to moving around the board, but they have a seperate section for Opening Doors. Finally, all three sets of rules have a seperate section for Blocked Squares.

For now though, we are more concerned with how the Evil Wizard responds to Hero Movement, rather than the act of moving and looking itself. This is because we already covered the act of moving under Movement (See Way of the Warrior several posts back), and because in the US rules, "looking" is considered a PLAYER action but not a HERO action, applying both to exploring down newly revealed corridors and opening doors. In the UK versions, only opening a door counted as a PLAYER action, although still wasn't a HERO action, because it is assumed that the Heroes are automatically "looking" whenever they reach a new corridor. We shall explore the implications of this later on, when we cover opening doors, but for now, it's worth noting that the interesting idea that Heroes explicitly "LOOK" down corridors to reveal what they "SEE," and the implications that this could have for the game. (i.e. can a Hero NOT "LOOK" down a corridor, so as to prevent the Evil Wizard revealing monsters they could use on their next turn, until the Heroes are ready to deal with them?)

Also note, once again, we see the 2nd Edition of the UK Rules becoming much more board-game like, referring to the gameboard rather than Morcar's dungeons. The US edition also refers to the gameboard, although thematically, the rules seem to be more aligned as a roleplaying game. It's through such discrepancies that we can see HQ as a game that can't seem to decide whether it's a board game or a roleplaying game, straddling across the already thin boundary between the two, even back in the 90's...

However, for now, we are going to go with the 1st Edition UK rules (with Evil Wizard instead of Morcar, obviously), but add in the caveat about not revealing traps, secret doors, and treasure from the US rules.

Moving Around the Board
As the characters explore the evil wizard's dungeons, they enter new rooms and passages. If you are the first player to enter a new room or passageway, you should give the evil wizard player enough time to consult the Quest book and place onto the board any visible monsters and furniture. Note: Do not put out any traps or secret doors. Do not reveal treasure at this time.

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Now onto the meat of the section - Opening Doors:

Opening Doors
Characters and monsters can only enter and leave rooms through open doors. Monsters cannot open doors.

Characters can open a door by moving onto the square in front of it. You do not have to open a door they do not wish to. Opening a door does not count as a move. Having opened a door, you can keep moving, if you have any spaces left to move.

As soon as a door is opened, the evil wizard player must place any pieces shown for that room or passage on the map in the Quest book (apart from traps and secret doors). Once opened, a door remains open for the rest of the game. The evil wizard player should remove the closed door piece and replace it with an open door.

Note that, because you may not move through the same square twice in one move, if you move through a door, you may not pass through it again until your next turn.

Looking and Opening Doors
As a Hero, while moving, you may "look" down a corridor or through an open door. Looking gives you the opportunity to see what is directly within your line of sight, such as closed doors, blocked square spaces, and monsters. Looking is NOT one of the 6 actions. On your turn, you may move adjacent to a closed door and ask Zargon to open it. Zargon will open the door by removing the closed door piece and replacing it with an open door piece. Opening a door is also NOT one of the 6 actions. Both "looking" and "opening doors" are simply considered to be additional things you may do on your turn.

Note: All doors start out closed. Once a door is opened, it can never be closed.

Important: Getting caught in a trap, drinking potions, and picking thing up also do not count as actions. They can be done at any point during your turn.

It's interesting that once again, we see that only the 1st UK Edition has the rule for not being able to move through the same door twice, and a consequence of not being able to move through the same SQUARE twice. Since we kept the 1st UK Edition Rules for moving through the same square twice, we will ALSO be keeping this rule. I would like to apologise for an error back in that post - the 2nd Edition UK Rules DID NOT include the rule about being able to move through the same square twice.

In preparation for RandoQuest, not being able to move through the same door twice actually works in our favour, as a Hero opening a closed door SHOULD end their turn next the door, so it's contents can be determined during the Exploration Phase, leaving the Heroes ready to pass through it in their NEXT Hero Phase. Thus, the Heroes get to choose on their next turn whether to pass through the door or to continue moving to another unexplored area. Because the Exploration Phase occurs AFTER the Heroes Phase, there should be NO REASON for the Heroes to need to pass through the same door twice in their turn in any circumstances. This should be remembered for Trap Rooms - if Entering the Room triggers a Trap, then the Heroes will NOT be able to leave the room through the same door they entered by, and if all the other exits are unexplored, they may not be able to leave the room AT ALL during the turn they enter the room.

Here, in the US Edition, the Heroes get to "look" as a separate player action that can be done during Movement. It's is not an action in that it replaces the opportunity to attack or search, but it is still one that the player gets to initiate. It's interesting how, by combining the rules for opening doors with looking down corridors, the US edition provides the implication that exploration is optional, just as opening a door is. However, it's this concept of "looking" down corridors and through doors that allows for the creation of an Exploration Phase, even though given the maze-like structure of the HeroQuest board, separating "looking" from Movement will slow down the game quite a bit.

In essence, what adding an exploration phase will do is remove the option for a Hero to carry on moving after opening a door. However, since we are just compiling the HeroQuest Combined English Edition Rulebook right now, we will keep the rule that Heroes can move through a door after opening it, as per standard HQ rules, but the caveat that you cannot pass through the same door twice will also remain. It might be interesting to play with various combinations of these rules for doors to see what you prefer, for HQ or RQ. Technically, there's no reason other than convenience and pacing why you can't use the Exploration Phase as part a Hero's Movement, essentially reverting it back to the "Look" action from the US Rulebook, if you don't mind the disruption of determining the contents of the room beyond (which many are already used to as part of the Evil Wizard revealing the contents of the room or passage behind the door).

Also, you may wish to consider the following House Rule regarding movement that I mentioned previously. The slower pace of the game thanks to the potential Exploration Phase means that movement scores of up to 12 may not be very useful, and increasing the reliability of rolling 4+ for movement may be more beneficial. Like I previously mentioned, I am considering this as a way of handling movement in RandoQuest instead.

For the HQ CERB, we will use the UK 1st Edition Rules, with any additional information from the US rules included, as follows:

Looking and Opening Doors
As a Hero, while moving, you automatically "look" down a corridor or through an open door. Looking gives you the opportunity to see what is directly within your line of sight, such as closed doors, blocked square spaces, and monsters. Looking is NOT one of the 6 actions.

Characters can open a door by moving onto the square in front of it. You do not have to open a door they do not wish to. Opening a door does not count as a move. Having opened a door, you can keep moving, if you have any spaces left to move. Opening a door is also NOT one of the 6 actions. Both "looking" and "opening doors" are simply considered to be additional things you may do on your turn.

Characters and monsters can only enter and leave rooms through open doors. Monsters cannot open doors.

Note: All doors start out closed. As soon as a door is opened, the evil wizard player must place any pieces shown for that room or passage on the map in the Quest book (apart from traps and secret doors). Once opened, a door remains open for the rest of the game. The evil wizard player should remove the closed door piece and replace it with an open door.

Note that, because you may not move through the same square twice in one move, if you move through a door, you may not pass through it again until your next turn.

Important: Getting caught in a trap, drinking potions, and picking thing up also do not count as actions. They can be done at any point during your turn.

This seems messy for some reason - not sure why, but I think that it's the explicit use of the term "look" from the US version of the rules. I have updated the rules so that "look" now occurs automatically as part of a Heroes movement, removing the implication that Heroes may choose not to look down a corridor or through an open door. The only choice the Heroes have regarding looking is whether or not they open a door.

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Going to take a breather here to talk about line of sight. In the UK 1st Edition Rulebook, the Line of Sight rules were covered under Casting a Spell, which is when they are first introduced and used. In the 2nd Edition, the Line of Sight rules were also included under casting, as part of the Full Game, but these rules were repeated under a section titled "What can be seen?" following the rules about Opening Doors. Similarly, the US rules refer the players forward from exploration to casting, placing line of sight under a section called "See." Since we already covered Line of Sight under Casting, we won't be repeating it here.

When it comes to layout, the line of sight rules should be placed wherever they are first mentioned. Chances are, this will be under Exploration (and the Exploration phase, if included), although it could still be under Casting if that is placed first. There's also the option of it being placed under Combat for Ranged Attacks, if these are also included early on, which is the case for AHQ and WHQ, where the Elf character STARTS with a ranged attack, instead of magic. However, it's just easier to note that Line of Sight is essentially Casting a Spell, and the same rules apply.

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Next up, we have Blocked Square Tiles. In the 1st Edition UK Rules of Play, these were listed under traps, but in all other versions, they are dealt with under exploration. It's worth noting that the UK edition used the same tile for Blocked Square Tiles and Falling Block Traps, unlike the US version, which could cause some confusion. Surprisingly, very little about Falling Block Traps was included in the 1st edition of the UK rules. For now though, we will be looking at Blocked Square tiles in all three versions.

Blocked Square Tiles
These tiles should be placed according to the map in the Quest book as soon as they become visible to a player character. The tiles show where extra walls have been built, or where the ceiling has fallen in. Neither characters nor monsters may move through blocked squares.

Blocked Square Tiles
As Zargon, you must place a blocked square tile on the gameboard as soon as it becomes visible to the Hero. These tiles show where extra walls have been built. Neither Heroes nor monsters can move through blocked squares.

Not a lot to say here, as they are all sort of similar. For the CERB, we are going with the UK rules, but adding the emphasis that the US edition includes on not being able to enter a blocked square:

Blocked Square Tiles
These tiles should be placed according to the map in the Quest book as soon as they become visible to a player character. The tiles show where extra walls have been built, or where the ceiling has fallen in. Neither characters nor monsters may move through blocked squares.

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Finally, we are going to cover a section that was only in the 2nd Edition of the UK Rules and in the US Rules - what to do when you run out of monster figures. This is never mentioned in the 1st edition of the UK Rules.

Placing Monsters
Each Quest will usually use more monsters than are available in the game. However, monsters that are eliminated may be used again later in the Quest. If all the monsters of a particular type are on the board and the evil wizard player needs to place another one, he may use any other monster, providing that it is of the same colour as the one that should have been used. This may happen if the character players fail to eliminate the monsters or if they draw too many wandering monster cards from the Treasure card pile.

Z - What Happens If You Run Out Of Monsters?
Some Quests may require more monsters than are available in the game. This could happen if the Heroes fail to kill monsters. Killed monsters may be used again later in the Quest if the Quest Book calls for their placement. However, if all the monsters of a particular type are already on the gameboard and you, as Zargon, need to place another one, you may use any monster that is of the same colour as the one that should have been used.

Okay, the crux of this section is simple - if the EW runs out of a certain type of monster, they may use any other monster of the same colour instead. Fairly simple, but let's look at some implications of this.

Firstly, this implies that the limits of the figures are the limits of the monsters. That is, there can only ever be 31 Monsters on the board at the time (8 Orcs, 6 Goblins, 3 Fimir, 4 Chaos Warriors, 1 Chaos Warlock, 1 Gargoyle, 4 Skeletons, 2 Zombies, and 2 Mummies) in the base game. Expansions provided extra figures, so chances are that this IS NOT a defined limit, but it can be interesting to play as if it was.

Secondly, there is no indication that the replacement figure is representative of the monster it's replacing, thus it could be possible for monsters to be upgraded or downgraded depending upon what's available. For example, if you have 8 Orcs on the board, the 9th Orc to be placed could become either a Goblin or a Fimir, depending on what's available, if none of the 8 Orcs have been killed.

Finally, the EW can ONLY use another figure of the SAME colour (so Green, Cream, or Grey). That means if you have 4 Skeletons, 2 Zombies, and 2 Mummies on the board, all of which are undead (which are Cream), if you needed to place a 3rd Zombie, the monster would simply fail to appear.

Also, as worded, it is implied that killed monsters can return, rather than just their figures being reused. Consider that for a moment...

Anyway, for the HQ CERB, let's fix some of these issues. For ease, let's assume that the intention is to reuse the figures, so there's an unlimited supply of monsters, as follows:

What Happens If You Run Out Of Monster Figures?
Some Quests may require more monster figures than are available in the game. This could happen if the Heroes fail to eliminate the monsters or if they draw too many wandering monster cards from the Treasure card pile. Killed monster figures may be used again later in the Quest if the Quest Book calls for their placement. However, if all the monster figures of a particular type are already on the gameboard and you, as Zargon, need to place another one, you may use any monster figure that is of the same colour as the one that should have been used, or failing this, any other monster figure you have remaining. The monster remains the same type of monster shown in the Quest Book, despite the use of an alternative figure.

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So, that's Exploration done, along with the added issue of running out of monster figures. Time to compile it all together for processing:

Moving Around the Board
As the characters explore the evil wizard's dungeons, they enter new rooms and passages. If you are the first player to enter a new room or passageway, you should give the evil wizard player enough time to consult the Quest book and place onto the board any visible monsters and furniture. Note: Do not put out any traps or secret doors. Do not reveal treasure at this time.

Looking and Opening Doors
As a Hero, while moving, you automatically "look" down a corridor or through an open door. Looking gives you the opportunity to see what is directly within your line of sight, such as closed doors, blocked square spaces, and monsters. Looking is NOT one of the 6 actions.

Characters can open a door by moving onto the square in front of it. You do not have to open a door they do not wish to. Opening a door does not count as a move. Having opened a door, you can keep moving, if you have any spaces left to move. Opening a door is also NOT one of the 6 actions. Both "looking" and "opening doors" are simply considered to be additional things you may do on your turn.

Characters and monsters can only enter and leave rooms through open doors. Monsters cannot open doors.

Note: All doors start out closed. As soon as a door is opened, the evil wizard player must place any pieces shown for that room or passage on the map in the Quest book (apart from traps and secret doors). Once opened, a door remains open for the rest of the game. The evil wizard player should remove the closed door piece and replace it with an open door.

Note that, because you may not move through the same square twice in one move, if you move through a door, you may not pass through it again until your next turn.

Important: Getting caught in a trap, drinking potions, and picking thing up also do not count as actions. They can be done at any point during your turn.

Blocked Square Tiles
These tiles should be placed according to the map in the Quest book as soon as they become visible to a player character. The tiles show where extra walls have been built, or where the ceiling has fallen in. Neither characters nor monsters may move through blocked squares.

What Happens If You Run Out Of Monster Figures?
Some Quests may require more monster figures than are available in the game. This could happen if the Heroes fail to eliminate the monsters or if they draw too many wandering monster cards from the Treasure card pile. Killed monster figures may be used again later in the Quest if the Quest Book calls for their placement. However, if all the monster figures of a particular type are already on the gameboard and you, as Zargon, need to place another one, you may use any monster figure that is of the same colour as the one that should have been used, or failing this, any other monster figure you have remaining. The monster remains the same type of monster shown in the Quest Book, despite the use of an alternative figure.

There we go, that looks like a nifty bit of rules about Moving around the Board and Exploration. As stated, this is seperate from the section regarding Movement itself, but the two will most likely be close together when compiled...

[Davane]

Moving on to searching - and here we come across a major difference within the rules. The UK version of HQ combine searching for Secret Doors and Traps, where as they are individual actions in the US version. Looking over the rules, I also note that there's no general rules for searching in the US version - each action is written up individually, and any common rules between searching are repeated. In all THREE search actions, the first two points are repeated in various ways.

Searching
Characters may always search instead of attacking or casting a spell. The search can be made before or after moving. Characters may not search if they are next to a monster or if there is a monster in the same room or visible in a passage. Monsters never search.

A whole room or all visible squares of a passage may be searched in one turn.

When a player searches he searches the whole room or passage in which he is standing.

Players must tell the evil wizard player what they are looking for. They may search for either secret doors and traps, or treasure.

The evil wizard player the checks the map in the Quest Book to see if there is anything hidden in that particular room or passage.

If there is anything to be found, the evil wizard player must reveal it. Searching for treasure will not reveal traps or secret doors, and vice versa.

Already, we start to see how the rules have evolved between the 1st and 2nd UK Editions of HeroQuest. Despite using largely the same chunk of test, there are a few lines that are different, with two main points of change. Firstly, we have the two different descriptions of what area is searched. Secondly, there's the added clarification in 2nd Edition about the evil wizard player referring to the Quest Book. The first change is intriguing, since the 1st edition states that you can search all visible squares of a passage. Meanwhile, the 2nd edition seems to have dropped the term visible, but reinforced that the Hero searches the area where they are standing. It's an interesting change regarding what aspects of these rules the designers considered to be self-evident.

Let's briefly compile the UK version of the rules before moving on, as follows:

Searching
Characters may always search instead of attacking or casting a spell. The search can be made before or after moving. Characters may not search if they are next to a monster or if there is a monster in the same room or visible in a passage. Monsters never search.

When a player searches, he searches the room or passage in which he is standing. A whole room or all visible squares of a passage may be searched in one turn.

Players must tell the evil wizard player what they are looking for. They may search for either secret doors and traps, or treasure. The evil wizard player the checks the map in the Quest Book to see if there is anything hidden in that particular room or passage. If there is anything to be found, the evil wizard player must reveal it. Searching for treasure will not reveal traps or secret doors, and vice versa.

Now onto the rules from the US version of HQ. As stated, there are THREE different search actions, which all contain a couple of repeated, almost identical points, which we can infer relate to searching in general, and thus are worthy of consideration for this section of the HQ Combined English Edition Rule Book.

How a Hero Searches For Treasure

• As a Hero, you may search a room for treasure only if the room is uninhabited by monsters.
• As a Hero, you must first verbally declare your search. Do so by saying, "I am searching for treasure." Searching for treasure means you are looking around, opening things, searching for interesting objects and gold coins, regardless of what square you are on in the room. Do not move your Hero figure when you search.

How a Hero Searches For Secret Doors

• As a Hero, you can only search for secret doors if there are no monsters visible to you.
• You must first verbally declare your search. Do so by saying, "I am searching for secret doors." ... Do not move your Hero figure when you search.

How a Hero Searches For Traps

• As a Hero, you can only search for traps if there are no monsters visible to you.
• You must first verbally declare your search. Do so by saying, "I am searching for traps."

From this, we see three clear points regarding searching. Firstly, you cannot search if there are any visible monsters. However, as written, searching for Treasure is allowed as long as the room is empty (you can only search for treasure in rooms). Thus, a Hero COULD search for treasure if there is monster visible through the door of an adjoining room or passage. This makes little sense, so for ease, we can just use the visibility rule from searching for secret doors and searching for traps to exclude this possibility.

Secondly, all three types of search are different, and must be declared differently, using the "searching for..." declaration. Seems silly to have to point out that you have to declare what you are searching for, and then state exactly what to say, but maybe that's just me. However, it does lead to a lot of needless repetition within the instruction manual.

Finally, both Searching for Treasure and Searching for Secret Doors states quite clearly that you DO NOT move your figure whilst searching. Searching for Traps doesn't have this statement, yet it seems evident that this ALSO applies to searching for Traps as well.

Time to make a decision regarding which version of searching we will use. For ease, let's go with the US version, where searching for Traps is seperate from searching for Secret Doors. The different things you search for typically have different sections of rules, even if the searching mechanic itself is identical. We can include searching for secret doors AND traps as a house rule. However, it's worth noting that this affects quest design - the main reason for separating searching for secret doors and traps, is the same reason as separating searching for treasure and traps: Just as a treasure chest can be used as a lure for a trap, a secret door can be too if the searches are seperated.

Anyway, let's combine this information in with our pre-compiled UK searching rules, as follows:

Searching
Characters may always search instead of attacking or casting a spell. The search can be made before or after moving. Characters may not search if they are next to a monster or if there is a monster in the same room or visible in a passage. Monsters never search.

When a player searches, he searches the room or passage in which he is standing. A whole room or all visible squares of a passage may be searched in one turn. Do not move your Hero figure when you search.

Players must verbally declare their search, telling the evil wizard player what they are looking for. They may search for either treasure, secret doors, or traps. Searching for treasure will not reveal secret doors or traps, searching for secret doors will not reveal treasure or traps, and searching for traps will not reveal secret doors or treasure.

The evil wizard player the checks the map in the Quest Book to see if there is anything hidden in that particular room or passage. If there is anything to be found, the evil wizard player must reveal it.

UK: Players search may search for either secret doors and traps, or treasure. Searching for treasure will not reveal traps or secret doors, and vice versa.