Tuesday Night HeroQuest!

[knightkrawler]

Together with the rule that a monster can attack once per turn, or take a different action instead if specifically stated,
the notes entry is very clear. It is his action to attack the mind of a hero "each round".
No other action is implied there, the wording is quite unambiguous. He can move and take this action, and because of the "each round" wording he can only take this action.

[lucasdp]

Yeah, I guess I was trying to stretch it a little ridiculously there. Thanks, KK!

[Saiyaforthelight]

In my take on the quest (untested) I buffed the guy with two attacks, so he can mind flay for one and attack, as well as rolling white shields. Mini boss time! I think you stretch it as you need for your game to make it a challenge, yet rewarding. Love the battle reports here by the way, keep 'em coming!

[lucasdp]

This week we played the East Gate. Having two "mini-bosses" (the shapeshifter and Borokk the Chaos Warlock) was nice, but this is also another "find the exit and get out" quest. I had some fun as Zargon because I got to kick some ass, but I could tell my heroes were bored (or may be just feeling defeated) at some points.

After tackling the first Orc in the east hallway, Vrag the Barbarian u-turned to find the shapeshifter and after killing it, the first card I drew was the Gargoyle! So things were off to a great start for Zargon! That Orc in the south hall was able to block Vrag in the room, so the Gargoyle got a couple good hits in before Miranda the Elf hit that Orc with her crossbow, allowing Vrag to make an escape. Meanwhile, Lady Darwin the Dwarf has found two Chaos Warriors. Gizzard the Wizard is backing her up there, and cooking up a healing spell for Vrag.
The heroes were really hoping that the shapeshifter wouldn't be able to leave the room, or would die for good if killed outside of its room, etc., but they were disappointed when the Gargoyle followed Vrag into the hallway, and then was struck down only to rise again as a Skeleton.
Oh yeah, also Lady Darwin opened the door to Borokk's room. I was able to get them stuck between the two big guys for a minute!
Borokk hit Lady Darwin with his mind attack! Vrag had been healed by Gizzard, but was hesitant to face Borokk with only two mind points. Peer pressure prevailed as his friends encouraged him to face the Warlock. He did some damage but Borokk was still standing. Miranda took a shot with her crossbow, it missed. Then Borokk attacked Vrag for all his mind points! With Vrag down, Lady Darwin attacked Borokk but missed. Miranda took aim with her crossbow and the shot was true this time, and that was the end of Borokk.
Simultaneous to all this, the heroes had decided not to attack the shapeshifter again, to let it stay a Skeleton with only two combat dice, and were taking turns holding it at bay while dealing with Borokk. Not a bad strategy...
Anyway, Miranda gave Vrag the Elixir of Life after playfully letting him miss two turns, and he was back in the game. The heroes found their way to the center room and I did a lot of damage with the Chaos Warriors and the Fimirs in there. Gizzard was killed at one point, but restored by the Rings of Devotion. Eventually the heroes took the monsters out and opened the northern door to reveal the exit. The last two Goblins weren't much of a challenge, but the shapeshifting Skeleton was still on their tails when they realized that the door would not open easily. Miranda and Vrag failed their first rolls. Gizzard successfully opened the door, but chose not to go through, as he thought a friend might need a healing spell.
At this point I made a decision as a gamemaster. As I was ready for it to end (and I could tell the heroes were, too), I decided that once the Dwarf and a magic user had gone through the door, the Dwarven magic would be undone and the East Gate would remain open for the remaining heroes. (Obviously, I did not tell them this...) I didn't want to wait around for Vrag to either roll snake eyes or be killed by the shapeshifter, so I thought this would be a decent compromise.
Anyway, Lady Darwin then took her shot at opening the door. She had lost some mind points to Borokk, but was still able to pass through with her Dwarven advantage. Then Miranda used her Genie spell to open the door. Now, in hindsight, I'm sure it would be easy to argue that the Genie should not work on the East Gate, but I thought it played into my previous decision about adjusting the magic exit very well, so I went with it, ...and the heroes made their escape.

So, a good one for Zargon. I'll claim it as a "win." Took the Barbarian out with mind attacks. Killed the Wizard, but that home-brewed artifact is always his saving grace. Additionally, Gizzard used a LOT of healing spells this time. As I've mentioned before, I have a house rule which offers a chance to use a spell more than once, and Gizzard rolled really well on those checks. Also, I'm sure if I had let the exit door play out as written, there's a good chance I could have killed another hero in that last hallway with the shapeshifter, but just didn't feel like watching that play out... I was ready for it to be over, I could tell some of my heroes were too, so I made a gamemaster decision on the fly.

If I were to rewrite this quest...
The first time the shapeshifter dies, do what it says: shuffle the deck, draw the top card, this is the new shape the monster takes. (This monster ability will get a great, big reaction! it sure did at our table anyway!)
After that, when the shapeshifter dies, shuffle the cards and let the heroes pick one at random! (But still don't tell them that if they draw the same monster, the shapeshifter will finally be permanently killed!)
Now, I didn't playtest this, but I thought about it after the heroes decided not to kill the shapeshifter when it re-spawned as a skeleton. I think if you give the heroes the idea that they "may" have "some" "control" over its re-spawning, then they will be more adventurous when fighting it. Or at least, that's what I think my heroes would do.

The second thing I would adjust: Consider giving the heroes a break on the exit door (...depending on your gamemaster style )

Easy: Once any hero has passed through the door, it is open for all heroes.
Medium: Once the Dwarf and a magic user (Elf or Wizard) have sucessfully opened and passed through the door, it is open for any remaining heroes. Maybe the Genie helps, if the magic user has kept it this long and decides to use it now.
Hard: Keep it as written. Every hero must roll equal to or less than their mind points to pass the exit door, aka THE EAST GATE. No Genie or nothing! Just know that, playing this way, with the Barbarian's two mind points and the shapeshifter's abiltiy... you may end up playing a long, boring battle, and/or killing your Barbarian.
...Or the Barbarian could roll snake eyes the first time and skate through the exit, no big deal! Hey it could happen! This is a quest that allows for a lot of randomness.

That might be this quest's strength... Out of all the "Find the exit and get out" quests in Kellar's Keep, this one may have the best "dead ends." The Shapeshifter! Borokk! The empty treasure chest surrounded by traps! (which my heroes never even came close to, by the way!).

This one may not be the best quest in the quest pack, but it gives Zargon a chance to have some fun and kill at least one or two heroes if you're really ruthless.

[Anderas]

Hm, interesting. I thought the shapeshifter would be more fun for the heroes, to be honest. Fighting Borokk and the Shapeshifter at the same time is ugly.
Especially, i wasn't thinking about the Borokk-Exit door combination. One removes MP, the other one doesn't let you pass if you are as dumb as a goblin.

Yes that needs tweaking. Thanks for the report.

Another one, this time pure personal opinion and feeling -
Killing the heroes is not the objective in Heroquest.The whole buy equipment between the quest system doesn't work if you get to kill the heroes too often.
I feel with the elixier of life and your personal lover's ring artifact they are doing quite well. The lover's ring also is always saving the wizard, and that's great because he's the one who get's killed most often, so this is a bonus at exactly the right place.

I would say, well done - and yes that quest needs redesign. Thanks for the report!

[knightkrawler]

and yes that quest needs redesign.

It does, doesn't it? [*rubbing hands*]
Ideas: replace Borokk with a second shapeshifter, both of them in different rooms, let heroes draw monster cards as Lucas suggests.
Alternatively, the heroes should have decided to give the Barbarian the Talisman of Lore. Or you keep Borokk and let the heroes roll ONE die against CURRENT mind points.
The medium door difficulty makes thematic sense. For my rules, I'll put it in different words (because I don't have a "Dwarf", but I could clause it for a specific hero).

[lucasdp]

I had a couple other ideas for how the shapeshifter could be reworked...

If you really wanted to go easy on your heroes, you could say once a monster card that matches *any* of the shapeshifter's previous forms has been drawn, it dies for good.

OR

You could shuffle all the monster cards only once and draw from that stack until all monsters have been gone through, and then the shapeshifter dies when there are no more cards to draw. If the heroes figure this out, that would give them a reason to keep killing the shapeshifter...

We knocked out Grin's Crag this week, so that's Kellar's Keep down! I'll post the batrep on that when I have a little more time later.

[lucasdp]

Kellar's Keep. Quest 10: Grin's Crag

I want to first state that never once did my heroes put together the four stone map pieces. So, I really can't say if there are any useful clues there or not, from a non-Zargon perspective.

Anyway, this was a pretty straightforward "find-the-exit" quest again, and the heroes didn't waste much time, so this also ended up being one of our shorter quests, at about 1 hour 20 minutes. Miranda the Elf especially took the quest notes to heart -- "Remember your task. Do not stray from it, for your enemies are far too numerous." -- and pushed her friends to keep moving forward.

To begin, the heroes never touched the room with the Chaos Cloud. They opened the door to the left and, seeing the large group of monsters in there, decided this was likely the way to go. They cut their way through those greenskins, into the hallway. Then Gizzard the Wizard bravely (read: foolishly) opened the next room with the Chaos Warrior and more greenskins, then moved out of the way so they could pass him into the hallway and attack his friends. This resulted in a slow, cramped hallway battle, in which Miranda was basically helpless (her only weapon being the ranged crossbow), Gizzard was killed but revived, and Vrag the Barbarian took a lot of damage but managed to survive.

After this room, the heroes were wary to open the next room, so they did NOT find the treasure there, and just pushed forward through the hallway to Grin's Crag. The surprise Gargoyle was a nice touch, and both Gizzard and Miranda attempted spells on it (Ball of Flame and Genie, respectively), but of course the spells had no effect and in the end it was the might of Vrag and Lady Darwin the Dwarf that finally took out the Gargoyle.

The heroes made their quick escape and I read the epilogue and they got thier 500 gold coins each. They're quite flush with gold now, so they ought to be able to stock up pretty well before the next adventure (and I don't feel bad at all about using those Rust spells ).

Hooray! Another quest pack down! Against the Ogre Horde will be next for us, so I'm going to have to take some time to prepare for that. I was going to compare the original, drathe's remaster, and Phoenix's remaster, and see what I would like to work with. Really hoping that I will be happy with drathe's or Phoenix's and I can just use one of them as is... Any tips or foresight on this process is helpful...
Additionally, I've got to prep my Ogre minis! I got some on eBay that were relatively cheap because of a bad paint job and then white primer on top of the bad paint job... Would like to strip that off to get these guys down to their original plastic, if possible. Guess I need to get my hands on some Simple Green or something. Any tips on this are appreciated as well!

[knightkrawler]

This resulted in a slow, cramped hallway battle...

Aaah, the merits of the double-wide hallway!
We really can't thank Flint enough.

I'm sure I read your take on it somewhere before, but could you reiterate why it's not the Bitch-Lord next?
Not that I would complain, cause I have much MUCH more need for Ogre Horde batreps than anything else...

I wanna thank you again for leading us through an entire quest pack without letting go.
This thread is awesome!

[lucasdp]

The decision to play RotWL before KK was quite arbitrary. In fact, if I remember correctly, the main reason was that I wasn't sure how long my friends' interest in HeroQuest would last and I had gleaned from the forum here that RotWL was a more interesting quest pack, so I thought, "Well, let's play the 'better' one first, in case we don't get a chance to play both."
With both under my belt now, I do agree that KK should be played first in the timeline. But, as I think I've implied, KK needs more "adjustments" than RotWL. There are definitely things that make KK feel like it's dragging at some points, while RotWL seems to feel fresh and fun almost the whole way through.