BQP: The Frozen Horror Remake Main Thread!

[Kurgan]

It's true that if they fixed the Yeti hug and the Solo Quests, they would have fixed most of the issues. The lack of use for the Armband of Ice and an unmarked chest or some weirdness with a furniture trap that isn't... aren't as bad as the aforementioned ones. The rest is just extreme difficulty, which as long as the Heroes are spending all their coin on Mercs (and potions, which can be snagged not only from this pack's alchemist shop but also from KK/ROTWL if they own those) it could be more manageable.

But with no changes whatsoever, players going from KK/ROTWL to THIS will be quite shocked and dare I say disappointed... they should prepare for negative reviews and lots of posts asking why it's so broken.

We'll be there to present the facts (that it wasn't given adequate play-testing), as opposed to just spamming "Get Gud!" in a dismissive way.

Technically the Solo Quests CAN be played with a fully equipped, seasoned veteran Barbarian... if you just happen to only have two players, but the option that they encourage in the book, for a brand new HeroQuest player, who wants to "catch up" to the others will be in for a rude awakening without fixes! And yes, even a fully stocked Champion Barbarian can be wiped out with an unlucky roll against the first Yeti he meets...

[Kurgan]

Is it time for another unboxing? So far we've seen videos of press events where people are opening up the boxes and playing around with the miniatures, handling the "new" (recolored) dice and so forth... but we still don't have word on any changes (if any) to the TEXT of the quest book and/or cards. Have the rules changed any? Inquiring minds want to know!

Thanks again to domymontalto for posting up a new picture and a link to the french edition of Frozen Horror on HeroQuestFansDiscord (I'll wait to see if he's going to post them himself, it not I can do so...).

[Kurgan]

Domymontalto reports via HeroQuestFans Discord, and I'm posting this with his permission... another video showing the same woman from the unboxing clip...

Crossover Universo Nerd Youtube Italian video
ECCO UN RIASSUNTINO PER FARVI RIVIVERE IL NOSTRO "PLAY" E LA NOSTRA...
The video is in Italian, but it shows some monster cards for a few seconds

Starting at 1:38...

2:33 female Barbarian has her own card (as predicted) shown in the lower right corner. The artsy camerawork makes parts of it blurry, but glimpses of some spell cards and other images as well.

The stats for the mercs, from what I can see, look to be identical to the original.

[Kurgan]

Was checking the 1992 quests and I see a design problem for this remake edition... the original Frozen Horror figure was 1x2 squares wide (rectangular base). So he could leave the room through the door if he wanted. But the new figure is twice as big... we've seen several pictures and video of people holding him in their hands or posed next to other figures and he's HUGE.

The remake version is on a round base that takes up about 4 squares. So he won't be able to fit through the door, meaning he's trapped in the throne room. This makes him weaker, I guess, unless you just say he can magically move through the door and into a corridor that is only 1 square wide somehow... For reference, Space Crusade, which had a four square wide boss monster (the Dreadnought, the only character to use a square base as all the rest had round) could move through the doors because they were all two squares wide.

Now of course they could modify the quest so it had a double wide door but there's still the problem of the corridor, unless they modify the room so that the door opens into the double wide corridor to the south or north.

So either they'll be modifying the last quest's layout, possibly introducing a new double door mechanic or else the final guy is stuck in the room where you find him. I guess they could have him comically bust through the wall, Kool-Aid Man style, and squeeze along the narrow walls like an Ogre?

[HispaZargon]

Maybe the new questbook just consider the Frozen Horror occupes only one square even its base is bigger? In my opinion it would ve an error since miniatures around itwould clash between them when trying to fight the monster... and at the same time it is true that Frozen Horror icon shown in its monster card seems to be a bit bigger than other regular icons, so maybe it is intended to officially occupe more than one square.

Speculations are open

[gaeryth]

So, Avalon HIll used to be part of the Wizards of the Coast department of Hasbro, before being split off to be its own thing. Now, I don't know how many people at AH now came over from WotC, but if anyone did, they might adapt a rule from WotC's Dungeons and Dragons that covers this element of Map Squares vs Miniature size. DnD has a 'Squeezing' rule in place for when creatures are larger than the space they are moving through. Effectively, a Large figure (2x2) can move through a space only one square wide, with a slight movement penalty and, if they stop in a smaller area, a slight penalty to combat.

I would personally use the following: If a Large figure moves through any squares that it must squeeze, reduce its movement by 2. If a Large figure ends its movement on squares that it must squeeze, place it on the 2x1 squares (so that some of the mini bleeds over on either edge) and reduce its Atk and Def by 1 die each.

In DnD this is all explained by the fact that a mini takes up a certain number of squares on a board, and that space represents the area the creature needs to combat and move efficiently. The true, actual physical space that they take up in the world is smaller than what is represented on the board. (I can move down a hallway that is 2.5 feet wide, but it would hamper my movement a bit, and swinging a weapon would not be optimal. In a hallway 5 feet wide, everything is much easier.)

[wallydubbs]

I wonder if the Barbarian figurine that is included in this Quest pack is male or female.
Random question, I know, but for those of use who bought the Mythic Tier version, we already have one of each... Could always use this one as Kalvenos.

[Kurgan]

The Barbarian included in Frozen Horror is female (same outfit and pose as the 1992 version just different color). Remember that the female Barbarian (different sculpt) was only available to those who bought the remake through the pledge drive. So this is a good thing for most players! Now if they remake Mage of the Mirror, they already have a female Elf, so I think it should be the male elf! (but we'll have to wait to see if they even get that far...)

HeroQuest already handled multi-square monsters in EQP (Giant Wolves, 1x2 squares) and BQP (Frozen Horror). I guess if they don't make any changes they'll just fudge it and players will just have to figure it out and will ask why the board is so squeezed. Maybe they just assume you'll find the boss and beat him in the room he starts in easily enough. They could run away, but you only win the quest if you kill him. So they could run out of the room and take a break? Unless they just don't say anything and so the GM assumes he can go anywhere despite his size.

Refreshing my memory (I've never actually played past Quest 3 of the Frozen Horror, but there's time for that before August/September!), there's only one other character that uses chaos spells in the pack besides this guy.

[Nlinindoll]

Was checking the 1992 quests and I see a design problem for this remake edition... the original Frozen Horror figure was 1x2 squares wide (rectangular base). So he could leave the room through the door if he wanted. But the new figure is twice as big... we've seen several pictures and video of people holding him in their hands or posed next to other figures and he's HUGE.

The remake version is on a round base that takes up about 4 squares. So he won't be able to fit through the door, meaning he's trapped in the throne room.

I don’t really see this as a problem or requiring a rule change. In my mind, the miniatures (monsters and doors) are just representative and I take no issue with a 2x2 figure moving through the doors or down a single block wide corridor.

[QorDaq]

RE: Large Figures

I was going to mention the "Squeezing Rule" as well. Regardless of design house or personnel, other games use this mechanic too, Folklore: The Affliction, being another example.

It makes sense thematically, that larger occupants of places of interest to them, can find a way in or out of tight entrances/ exits. Though it might be fun for the EWP to narrate the contortions required...*Chuckle*...

If AH doesn't cover this specifically, I do feel that there are precedents already in HQ, even FH, as the minis represent a "Character" in the game who are (generally) not as static in shape or stance as a miniature suggests.

In the Classic FH, the miniature is wider than the doors, but we assume that they can turn sideways to "Squeeze" through a door. Ogres from other Quest Packs are represented as very large, despite the size of their bases, the same could be said of the Gargoyle, really. It's wings for example are wider than the doors, but the assumption is that they can fold them or something. The Dragon, while limited to a standard base, is much taller than a door and hanging out on a chunky column or plinth or similar, but we do not expect that the mini is taking their perch with them when they move. Wish it wasn't on a perch, frankly--but it does look cool.

Regardless, the point isn't to belittle the concern/ observation Kurgan raises about the Frozen Horror's 2x2 base, but to make the argument that the physical size or shape of a given mini need not break the game. If AH doesn't address this directly, I feel that it's an easy wave of the hand pass. I don't, personally, feel it's an issue.

Without going down the rabbit hole of what newer, inexperienced, players may or may not think of such considerations, especially if they are not participating in HQ community discussions, I can't see this tripping anyone up. For those of us that are familiar with tweaking HQ (and other games) anyway, hand-waving base size (or miniature pose), is seemingly more straightforward than other things we already adapt to.