Ice Ledge and Bottomless Chasm

[Pancho]

Yes treasure can be searched for within both rules. I don't clutter my original version of the game with mods and per the rules there is no slipping toward the middle. There are lots of ways to add some kind of slipping mechanism but a black shield resulting in perma death is too barsh in my opinion.

Actually, this is precisely what the instructions on The Frozen Horror details:

"The ice ledge that surrounds the crevasse is very slippery. When a Hero steps through a door and moves onto his first square in this room, he must roll 1 combat die. The Hero is safe and can continue moving if a skull or white shield is rolled. If a black shield is rolled, however, the Hero begins slipping into the crevasse, suffering 1 Body Point of damage. The Hero must immediately roll another combat die. If another black shield is rolled, the Hero plummets into the crevasse, never to be seen again. Any other roll means the Hero returns to the square in which he entered the room, ending his turn. At the beginning of any turn in which a Hero is in this room, he must first roll to see if he slips into the crevasse."

Notes are at Quest 4, marker E. As it is, it occurs in Quest 4, Quest 6 and in Quest 8, where the ones in Quest 6 and in Quest 8 are mandatory to pass. In Quest 6 the exit is behind it and in Quest 8, a quest objective is located behind it - and given the amount of monsters behind it, it probably requires the entire group to clear it; so all players would need to travel through it twice, unless the Wizard or Elf uses Pass Through Rock on someone.

Note that there are Spells and Artifacts that can prevent or mitigate this slipping, too. Snowshoes of Speed (found in Quest 4) negate the slipping, and through the Ice Bridge spell (spell scroll), you could cover the crevasse with Magic Ice. Personally, I would also rule that the Skate spell can be used to safely navigate the Icy Ledge. Spell scrolls are found throughout The Frozen Horror quests, but are random and so availability may vary.

I think the special rules for this room, as written, are about right. To die instantly you'd have to roll a black shield on one die, twice in a row. I'll take those odds.
Like you said, there are also ways to improve your chances with spells and artefacts, so all in all I can't see why the rules for this room need changing.
If I ever see my veteran-of-50-quests-Barbarian disappear over the edge I might feel differently, but seeing as almost always play Morcar......

[Jafazo]

Yes treasure can be searched for within both rules. I don't clutter my original version of the game with mods and per the rules there is no slipping toward the middle. There are lots of ways to add some kind of slipping mechanism but a black shield resulting in perma death is too harsh in my opinion.

Actually, this is precisely what the instructions on The Frozen Horror details:

"The ice ledge that surrounds the crevasse is very slippery. When a Hero steps through a door and moves onto his first square in this room, he must roll 1 combat die. The Hero is safe and can continue moving if a skull or white shield is rolled. If a black shield is rolled, however, the Hero begins slipping into the crevasse, suffering 1 Body Point of damage. The Hero must immediately roll another combat die. If another black shield is rolled, the Hero plummets into the crevasse, never to be seen again. Any other roll means the Hero returns to the square in which he entered the room, ending his turn. At the beginning of any turn in which a Hero is in this room, he must first roll to see if he slips into the crevasse."

Notes are at Quest 4, marker E. As it is, it occurs in Quest 4, Quest 6 and in Quest 8, where the ones in Quest 6 and in Quest 8 are mandatory to pass. In Quest 6 the exit is behind it and in Quest 8, a quest objective is located behind it - and given the amount of monsters behind it, it probably requires the entire group to clear it; so all players would need to travel through it twice, unless the Wizard or Elf uses Pass Through Rock on someone.

Note that there are Spells and Artifacts that can prevent or mitigate this slipping, too. Snowshoes of Speed (found in Quest 4) negate the slipping, and through the Ice Bridge spell (spell scroll), you could cover the crevasse with Magic Ice. Personally, I would also rule that the Skate spell can be used to safely navigate the Icy Ledge. Spell scrolls are found throughout The Frozen Horror quests, but are random and so availability may vary.

I realize the situational scenarios where heroes can slip by rolling two black shields consecutively on a combat die, I was talking about it being harsh to force the hero to repeat the roll just because he searched for treasure within such a room. It's like saying the hero has to make that roll anytime he searches for anything, even secret doors, it's a made up requirement, a mod. The rules don't penalize for that, they only require the rolls at the start of each heroes turn if they're in the room. I also know about the artifacts and other means of bypassing the threat. Hell, considering the rules, if players are playing by RAW, all you need is one pair of those artifact snow shoes for everyone to make it through safely with a 100% guarantee. Wanna know how?

One hero just needs to stand outside at the door and the hero with the artifact enters. He steps in and bypasses the need to roll then trades the shoes to the adjacent hero outside the door per the trading rules. He then resumes his move and makes it out of the room, the hero with the shoes repeats with another hero until all heroes are safe. This is where Morcar cries.

[Anderas]

I think the special rules for this room, as written, are about right. To die instantly you'd have to roll a black shield on one die, twice in a row. I'll take those odds.
Like you said, there are also ways to improve your chances with spells and artefacts, so all in all I can't see why the rules for this room need changing.
If I ever see my veteran-of-50-quests-Barbarian disappear over the edge I might feel differently, but seeing as almost always play Morcar

Do this for four heroes in a row, you're at about 10% that it happens. In one quest you have to do it twice with all the heroes, that's about 20% that it happens.

I feel that it is too much. But of course this is feeling only.

[wallydubbs]

Although Jafazo makes a conservative and resourceful solution, I don't think most heroes would plot that deep into the scenario.

I wasn't aware that for every turn a hero spends in this room he'd have to roll again, I thought it was only for when they initially enter the room. Now knowing this, I'll revoke my previous vote for rolling again on Treasure searches.

Although it has been pointed out that the odds of rolling 2 black shields in a row is unlikely, when doing it with 4-5 heroes and some odd mercenaries someone is bound, at one point or another, have the terrible luck of rolling the dice (I'll leave it to Anderas to determine the odds, if he's up for it).
On paper this sounds like a delightfully terrible possibility. But thinking of it and experiencing it are two different things. Losing a hero like this is utterly devastating. Even I, when playtesting the Frozen Horror, to the potentiality of 5 heroes, felt somewhat upset when the Female Barbarian destroyed the Scepter of Glacial Majesty (killing 3 mercenaries that were in the room with her), headed back, only to slip on the ice ledge and tumble into the abyss... I wouldn't have minded so much if it was just a mercenary, but she and the Dwarf had a good thing going.
I'd like to implement another possible save in this scenario:
Before the Female Barbarian fatefully stepped into the ice ledge room and tumbled over the cliff, her Male counterpart had gone before her and ended his movement the space adjacent to where she had tumbled. I feel if she slipped the Barbarian could have caught her before she went over the edge. So if a hero is next to the hero that slips, I think they should be able to catch them before he/she slips over the edge. A hero holding the hand of another hero while they're dangling over a cliff doesn't seem too out-of-reach.

Also while playtesting, I've noted that heroes can possibly avoid rolling when entering by drinking a Potion of Air Walk from the Elf Quest Pack.

[Anderas]

Potion of Air Walk, good call! I take that one.

How would you implement the holding of hands? Double or nothing?
So the adjacent hero can decide to keep the other one alife, by rolling a white die. If you roll a black shield, both heroes fall. Else both are safe.

[wallydubbs]

Well, I was thinking the roll should occur after the initial slip. Walk in the room, if you roll a black shield the hero slips. If that hero is adjacent to another hero they can grab hands for stability.
Roll combat dice, on a skull he grabs the fallen hero and prevents them from going over the edge.
On a white shield they try to grab hands but fail, the hero that slipped must roll again to see if they go over the edge.
On a black shield the other hero slips too and both tumble to the pit. Both must now roll to see if they go over...

Too much?

[lestodante]

all you need is one pair of those artifact snow shoes for everyone to make it through safely with a 100% guarantee. Wanna know how?
One hero just needs to stand outside at the door and the hero with the artifact enters. He steps in and bypasses the need to roll then trades the shoes to the adjacent hero outside the door per the trading rules. He then resumes his move and makes it out of the room, the hero with the shoes repeats with another hero until all heroes are safe. This is where Morcar cries.

but... as soon as a hero will remove his snowshoes he will become a normal character so he will need to roll the dice test, even if it is at the the end of his turn.

[Pancho]

I think the special rules for this room, as written, are about right. To die instantly you'd have to roll a black shield on one die, twice in a row. I'll take those odds.
Like you said, there are also ways to improve your chances with spells and artefacts, so all in all I can't see why the rules for this room need changing.
If I ever see my veteran-of-50-quests-Barbarian disappear over the edge I might feel differently, but seeing as almost always play Morcar

Do this for four heroes in a row, you're at about 10% that it happens. In one quest you have to do it twice with all the heroes, that's about 20% that it happens.

I feel that it is too much. But of course this is feeling only.

I didn't realise there was a quest where the Heroes have to do the same chasm twice. In that case I agree with you now that the odds for instant death are too great.

Then I remembered that I have the rope as part of my expanded equipment card deck. I'm struggling to remember the specifics, but I think it was something like for 50 gold you can buy a rope that will allow all Heroes to successfully traverse one pit or chasm. The rope is then lost.
Could be a solution to this problem without having to change the chasm rule itself?

The rope could be overpowered in that all four Heroes could potentially have one rope each, meaning that the party would never actually face any danger from the chasms in FH. I suppose its likely that not all the Heroes would use up an equipment slot on rope, and the odd gremlin might steal some ropes as well. Also, now I'm thinking that one Hero or merc has to brave the chasm in order to fix the rope to the other side, then the others can follow without incident. Only the first model rolls for falling. What do you guys think?

[wallydubbs]

Heroes don't have to roll for slippage in the bottomless Chasm room... at least I don't think. However, if they attempt to jump the chasm and fail it's instadeath. Most heroes will save up their Ice Bridge Spell Scroll for this, unless they just choose to cover a pit trap. Your rope is as much a fix as a Potion of Dexterity. If Dexterity grants heroes a successful pit jump, it should work for the chasm too.

Rereading the quest booklet the slippage factor only applies to the Ice Ledge. I don't think the rope will help there as the first step could be perilous...

[The Admiral]

Are treasure searches allowed in the Ice Ledge/Chasm room? Or even living fog room, for that matter...
What do you think, how do you guys play?

I wouldn't allow it on the ice ledge. Foggy room? I would allow, but roll a die. 1-3 nothing found, 4-6 draw a card, and then laugh heartily when the nothing card is drawn if playing EU treasure, which I still do from time to time.