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Re: Analyzing the quests of frozen horror

PostPosted: Thursday December 13th, 2018 10:52am
by Anderas
Conclusion

I don't know if it is just me, but I did not find the Armband of Ice in the quest book. It is bitterly needed!
In this "try for balancing", I put it where I think it would fit well.


Quest 1 - 3:
Barbara wants to become a hero, but for the first three quest she thankfully accepts the eager help offered by a band of ragged mercenaries.
For quest 1 and 2 you need 3 Halberdiers, for the third one 5.
As we don't want to stuff Barbara with too many freebies, I am a fan of Admirals Idea to give Barbara a Mercmix before she starts.

So, my proposed changes in the Frozen horror quests:

Quest 1: "Four mercenaries offer their help, one of each kind. Make good use of them!"
Quest 2: "Make sure to refill the Mercenary losses. They're more important than the next Axe." (but then let Barbara do what she wants)
Put the Armband of ice into the empty treasure chest; add 150 gold
Quest 3: "Be sure to take Mercenaries along your quest!"

Quest 4: A recommendation before the introduction text:
"This quest is best played with a Group having 4-Dice equipment and a Scout"
Note D: This chest has a trap with an explosive device. If a Hero searches for treasure before the trap is disarmed, all Heroes in the room lose 2 BP. The chest contains 600 Gold Coins and the Armband of Ice (see new artifact card).

Quest 5: A recommendation before the introduction text:
"This quest is best played with a Group having 4-Dice equipment and at least two mercenaries"
Note F: The first Hero to search for treasure in this room finds 2 Potion of Warmth (see new cards) and 2 Potions of Healing. Each potion of healing restores up to 4 lost Body Points.

Quest 6: No changes, but a recommendation before the introduction text:
"This quest is best played with a Group having 4-Dice equipment"

Quest 7: No changes, but a recommendation before the introduction text:
"This quest is best played with a Group having 4-Dice equipment and at least one mercenary"

Quest 8: No changes, but a recommendation before the introduction text:
"This quest is best played with a Group having 4-Dice equipment and a minimum of 4 mercenaries"
(though I am thinking of putting one potion of healing more? Any ideas, anybody?)

Quest 9-10: No changes, but a recommendation before the introduction text:
"This quest is best played with a Group having 4-Dice equipment and a minimum of 4 mercenaries"


Rule changes:
Following proposals from wallydubbs thread:

Yeti bug mitigation:
1. Change the phrase "This hug inflicts 2 Body Points of damage to the Hero at the start of each subsequent Zargon turn" to "This hug inflicts 1 Body Point of damage to the Hero at the start of each subsequent Zargon turn"

2. Change the phrase "The Hero cannot defend against this attack, nor can he take any actions":
"The Hero cannot defend against this attack. He can only attack back with a dagger."
or maybe
"The Hero cannot defend against this attack nor take any action. As an action, they can try to break the Yeti Hug by rolling one white die per BP. If a Walrus shows up, they're free."

For my personal use, I would change one or two things more. (Slippery Ice Crevasse, I am looking at you).
If it is just about debugging and making it playable with the official version, I would stop here.

Re: Analyzing the quests of frozen horror

PostPosted: Wednesday February 6th, 2019 1:21pm
by wallydubbs
Maybe not a Potion of Healing on Quest 8, but an Elixir of Life...

Also I wish you addressed the Ice Slide at the start of the quest... how does one handle that?
Quest booklet says it can't be detected until the hero steps on it... first turn in this quest... and, oh look, a lovely spear trap waiting for him.
So what goes on with the rest of the heroes? Every hero rolls when going down the ice slide to see if they take damage... mercenaries too?
Ok, well it's gonna be one hell of a pile up... do the heroes push the first hero to the next square? Do they just pile up on the squares behind him? Does the hero that gets landed on take any damage?

As for the Armband of Ice... there's an unmarked chest in Quest 9 in the North Eastern quadrant, in the room above the Icey River. This could very well be meant for the Armband of Ice. However, I don't see why anyone would want to include such a valuable artifact so late in the quest pack...

Re: Analyzing the quests of frozen horror

PostPosted: Wednesday February 6th, 2019 5:09pm
by SirRick
I assume 4 dice equipment is a Battle Axe with Chain Mail and a Helmet? Have you considered all heroes (who can) usint Plate Mail?

I'm not sure how reduced movement would affect the quest, but reading about the part where you roll snake eyes and die, I assume its for movement, and if 3 characters wear Plate Mail, they cannot possibly roll snake eyes.

Re: Analyzing the quests of frozen horror

PostPosted: Wednesday February 6th, 2019 8:02pm
by benvoliothefirst
As always Anderas, I'm in awe of your analytical skills. I hope this is all leading up to a Barbarian Quest Pack in 4 Difficulty Levels! :)

Re: Analyzing the quests of frozen horror

PostPosted: Thursday February 7th, 2019 4:08am
by Anderas
SirRick wrote:I assume 4 dice equipment is a Battle Axe with Chain Mail and a Helmet? Have you considered all heroes (who can) usint Plate Mail?

I'm not sure how reduced movement would affect the quest, but reading about the part where you roll snake eyes and die, I assume its for movement, and if 3 characters wear Plate Mail, they cannot possibly roll snake eyes.


There are errors in this quest book. If I would finish this work here instead of letting it be hobbyish half-assed, I would have to redevelop nearly every quest. It starts with the Yeti bug and strangely out-of-the-ordinary quest difficulties, but I think there are one or two bugs in each quest. Refer to Wallydubbs thread in this subforum to get a taste.


I normally consider the Wizard to have 3 attack and four defense max, coming from spirit blade and borins armour. His stats are not the most important, though, because he always enters a room last and therefore often doesn't participate in the fighting.
Even if he participates, he is taken into account only half.

The order is mercenaries first, then able heroes, then Wizard.

I do calculate fighting only, then I add all traps 100% if they are not discoverable like the spear trap at the end of the slide, then I add the other traps 50%, finally I add 3 wandering monsters.

The results are NOT very reliable, with error bars of usually 4BP to 8BP up or down. This is why I start to raise the red flag when Heroes lose more than 16 or 17 BP in the calculation: a small mishap may then lead to the first death and start a cascade ending in TPK.

I have seen it the other way too, the same quest being finished without so much of a scratch.

Those large error bars are another reason why the wizard's equipment is not so important for the result in the end.

Re: Analyzing the quests of frozen horror

PostPosted: Thursday February 7th, 2019 7:43am
by wallydubbs
Anderas: are your group quest simulations with 4 or 5 heroes?
Despite the rule book saying it's not allowed, are you allowing the Female Barbarian to accompany the rest of the heroes?

Re: Analyzing the quests of frozen horror

PostPosted: Thursday February 7th, 2019 9:09am
by Anderas
Standard is with 4 Heroes, 3x the same and the Wizard as half-hero as I guess he is using his actions otherwise than fighting.
For some simulations I add mercenaries. If I do, you can see it there.
Mercenaries are nice if you have a 4-dice quest difficulty but 3-dice-equipment, for example because the heroes don't like plate mail, then they are an easy way to have "something like" an equipment die more or two. See my simulation of quest 8 for comparison, there I had some mercs in the mix. It is also nice for having a comparison between equipment and mercs. Or between different types of mercs.

Maybe I should use the opportunity and simulate also my custom mercs and scouts...
I already see my weekend disappearing. :lol:

Re: Analyzing the quests of frozen horror

PostPosted: Thursday February 7th, 2019 1:19pm
by Thor-in
Anderas,

Your number crunching is amazing. I would like to test your theory out one night and see how accurate you are (I'm sure they are almost spot on, I'm just curious).

Re: Analyzing the quests of frozen horror

PostPosted: Friday May 17th, 2019 7:50am
by Tom Cahalan
Why are you assuming that the heroes are new? It is assumed that the players have played through the core game and most likely through Kellar's Keep and Return of the Witch Lord. I played these quests as a kid and we had no problem completing them.

Re: Analyzing the quests of frozen horror

PostPosted: Friday May 17th, 2019 8:53am
by Anderas
Hey Tom, welcome to the forums!

The first three quests are solo quests for a new beginner Barbarian.

For the other quests, indeed I mostly advise for a group that has four dice to roll. This is what I mean by "A group with 4 dice equipment". Worse, for some quests you need even more, which is why I advertise some mercenaries on top.

Note that I did it the other way round: I calculated the difficulty first, then I proposed this or that group for a given quest.