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Base Quests in four difficulty steps

PostPosted: Friday July 24th, 2015 11:55pm
by Anderas
I was playing with Sotiris, his Play by Post game "Interactive Heroquest". It is a variant in which the players might decide the order of the quests by themselves.

I entered the game when they were about to play the 8th quest in a row; but because they could decide interactively in which order they play the quest, it was "The Lair of the Orc Warlord", with the task to kill Ulag.
In the base game, this is quest 3. You enter with almost-beginners, and it is easy to play this quest. Well, we entered with expert Heroes and a mercenary, and yes, we lost only some BP because someone of us was walking in the middle of a group of Orcs to see what they do with him.

So. Why not adapting entire quests? It has to be prepared, not on the fly.

I started with "The Trial". The Trial is generally perceived as being "very hard". It's true, for a green Hero group. If you throw in an veteran group with maximum equipment, the quest is not harder than "The rescue of Sir Ragnar" is for a beginner's group.

I am half the way through "The rescue of Sir Ragnar" now, and intend to remake the entire base game. I will care that, at any time, the game stays playable with the base game models only. Count Mohawk's work was a great help for that.

In the pictures below you see the original concept with three difficulty steps. The downloadable book has now four difficulty steps.
The Questbook is downloadable in my Drop Box.

For having a quick feedback, i also deeplink it here. Basically, i reduced the difficulty for beginners, and made it more difficult for a veteran group. I still think it is "hard", but it is definitely less hard than before.
Feedback is appreciated!


For comparison: The original "Trial" has a difficulty of 29 for a green group, and 8 for a red group.
The rescue of Sir Ragnar has a solid 8 for a beginner's Group.

I considered putting another step inside, like between yellow and red. The step from yellow up to red is a bit large.
On the other hand, i wand that a red group has fun, even if they all have mercenaries on top of their equipment, so a "maxed out" step is definitely needed.

Re: Balanced Base Quest Book

PostPosted: Sunday July 26th, 2015 3:58pm
by Anderas
I didn't receive feedback. But i have seen GimmeYerGold's inter-quest tile system for managing travels and allow random access to quests (instead having a set order).

I think, especially for these kinds of systems this might be interesting. So i continued and added Sir Ragnar and Kill Ulag.

Also, I updated the Quest design to have the original pergament scroll inside.

I reduced the red level to have it adapted to groups with at least two 4/4 Heroes.
And then i added a "Superhero" Level with 5/5 Heroes. It can be applied to Heroes who have full Equipment and add Mercenaries to their group, for example. Some house rules also allow for superheroes.

Finally i added one page to each quest with two chapters:
"If you are new to Heroquest" explains rules which are used the first time in this Quest.
"About this Quest" has some random text in case you are interested.

Now there are Quest 1-3 /The Trial, Sir Ragnar, Kill Ulag inside the Document.

The New Download Link is here.

Have fun!
I still wait for Feedback. :)

Re: Balanced Base Quest Book

PostPosted: Monday July 27th, 2015 11:58pm
by Anderas
Added in Quest 4 and 5, Prince Magnus Gold and Melars Maze.

The quests have four difficulty steps that are allowing to play them in any order.

New download link here

Re: Base Quests in four difficulty steps

PostPosted: Tuesday July 28th, 2015 9:46am
by cornixt
Why do intermediates only get two extra CWs to fight, while the advanced get a ton of other monsters?

Re: Base Quests in four difficulty steps

PostPosted: Tuesday July 28th, 2015 10:07am
by Count Mohawk
I was refraining from commenting here, since I've shared a few of my thoughts already, but the latest Quests you posted gave me some more material to comment on. First is the simple typo stuff: on page 9, the last two bullets for the Spear trap are describing the Pit trap instead and should be excised.

The real winner so far is the addition of the Necromancer in the room with the Talisman of Lore. Quest objectives that can be failed, other than "all four Heroes die", make for more interesting games. I hope to see more of that sort of thing in the future.

Also note: Although the effect Chaos Spells have on the overall difficulty of a Quest can't be accurately estimated, passing more of them out to M/Z's minions can help make up the difference in some cases.

Re: Base Quests in four difficulty steps

PostPosted: Tuesday July 28th, 2015 11:38am
by Anderas
Cornixt, thanks for the feedback.
the Chaos Warriors are quite strong compared to a group with 3 At and 3 De. For these kind of Heroes, they are really sufficient. Plus, in the first try I was making the failure to have the red level already maxed out: an Orc is not much of an opponent to a maxed out Hero.

I see that as style error. That's why in the following quests I took care that I hand out the Orcs for intermediate Hero's, and save Chaos Warriors and similar Monsters for High levels.

In the pdf you have also the red level reduced to make the step smaller, and a purple level added.

Count Mohawk, thanks. I will update the file accordingly tonight.

Re: Base Quests in four difficulty steps

PostPosted: Tuesday July 28th, 2015 4:01pm
by Anderas
I updated the Quest Book.

* Cornixt remark is built in the way that i shifted one Chaos Warrior to Purple level and then I equalized by letting a lot of red Monsters fall down the ladder

* Count Mohawks remark is build in, the annotation is corrected.

Here, the update.

I was brooding about "Legacy of the Orc Warlord" today. In fact, i won't change anything. The Heroes are reset to beginner's level and don't get their equipment back reliably. So it may be they fight the way to the exit just to find they didn't yet have their equipment. So no yellow, red, purple level for this quest. It is just good as it is. :)

About the Chaos Spells, Count Mohawk, yes that's difficult - like the Wizard; or Monster Archers. I just be careful with it. But if I have Ideas, i am looking forward to build in some of them anyway.

Re: Base Quests in four difficulty steps

PostPosted: Sunday August 9th, 2015 4:55pm
by Anderas
Newest status: Just finished all 14 Base Quest Maps with Vector Graphics.
Now the next step is to write quest notes for all Quests i didn't jet update.

cynthialee wrote:But if you increase wandering monsters in future quests just to deplete their resources...then what good did having resources do for the heroes? What joy is there in being a wealthy adventurer?
If I am playing in your game and I figure out your paradigm, it would be better for me to go into every dungeon with just the base Hero card and no upgrades...You will scale the challenges to my hero and Basic is the safest.

I say if the gods favor them with vast wealth, let them have it without issue. What I like to do is mock them when they have a rich hero bite the bullet. "Why I bet you wish you had sunk all your cash into that case of Military Grade Healing potions don't ya?" "How is all that gold spending in Hero Heaven?"

It was not a response to this thread but i take it that it is applicable:
One of the major advantages of Descent above Hero Quest, as stated by a lot of Descent players, is that it scales beautifully with the amount of Heroes and their experience. I try to offer the same service - but with a game system that has survived 25 Years (which in itself, is not at all normal!)

Second argument: My Quests scale up if TWO heroes achieved a certain status. So you still have an advantage if you are the one Hero who is faster than the rest. :)
Additionally, for some, not all, of the Quests i took care that it is more difficult for beginner Heroes than for experienced Heroes. It is just not the same high step as before.

Re: Base Quests in four difficulty steps

PostPosted: Sunday August 9th, 2015 5:09pm
by Count Mohawk
Wandering Monsters! ... are an aspect of Questing I hadn't considered thus far. One Orc is hardy a challenge for a well-equipped party of four Heroes, even if he does get the first strike. It is probably good form to expect that the party will search for enough treasure to encounter at least two, particularly if they are easily surviving the rest of the Quest.

TL;DR: Red-level Heroes should be facing more difficult wanderers than Green-level Heroes. (Set them up as their own room with initiative of 0, twice, and you'll get the right results.)

Re: Base Quests in four difficulty steps

PostPosted: Monday August 10th, 2015 5:18am
by Anderas
Yes but I don't know if I really need to include them.
Avoidable, findable things weren't included in any calulation so far. If you can't find a trap before it is sprung, I added it. If you could find it, I didn't.

Same with wandering monsters. If the group is short before dying, they don't search. If they are fresh and new, they search. If they find out the wandering monster is a group of four Chaos Warriors, they stop searching immediately. If the wandering monster is ollar's ghost, they turn around every stone to find the last tiny bit of gold.

Nevertheless I did something with the wandering monsters. Balur the fire mage for example is a wonderful wandering monster. :twisted: