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Hero Collection II: Rogue Heir of Elethorn (Oct-Dec '22)

Discuss Miscellaneous HeroQuest Merchandise not fitting into any of the above categories.

What do you think of this announcement?

Here we go again
8
20%
I don't care
3
8%
Can't wait to pre-order
14
35%
Can't be real... no it can't be!
0
No votes
Maybe it will be good
6
15%
I'll wait for more info...
9
23%
 
Total votes : 40

Re: New 'Hero Collection': Rogue Heir of Elethorn (Dec '22)

Postby iKarith » Sunday August 7th, 2022 6:15pm

The Rogue Heir can't use armor, but can sneak right past the enemy, dagger dagger every turn, and has got an unlimited supply of the things in that bandolier only she/he can use. But there's baddies that can one-hit kill the rogue who is even more screwed potentially than the wizard for armor, so … that's a thing.

I think I'm going to enjoy playing the rogue actually.
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Re: New 'Hero Collection': Rogue Heir of Elethorn (Dec '22)

Postby Kurgan » Sunday August 7th, 2022 7:44pm

So we know what Opportunistic Striker skill is and what Ambidextrous skill is. But what is Combat Mobility skill? It seems to be that the Rogue can, if he has enough movement, pass through monsters, as if he is constantly under the influence of Dust of Disappearance/Veil of Mist. Most understand this to mean he can just pass through enemy spaces, not that it actually makes him invisible (can't be targeted by projectiles magical or otherwise).

Two attacks with a dagger seems extremely weak to me, even a dagger attack following a shortsword attack. What's the point there?

Unless there is a rule clarification that second attacks against monsters are unblockable (nothing like this has been said so far). If that were the case, then he would be pretty powerful.

As an aside but might provide some insight: The draft notes for the old version of the Frozen Horror was planning multiple Polar Warbear attacks against the same hero to allow the hero player to do ONE defensive roll after the two attacks and apply his defense to the whole thing... "and the same for monsters." But the final release version in 1992 was a bit vague but implied one of the two attacks was unblockable (AH clarified in "Into the Northlands" that this is how it was supposed to work but the Hero could decide WHICH attack to apply it to. In the Companion App which isn't always a reliable presentation of the rules nevertheless shows both PWB attack rolls and lets the hero decide WHICH one to roll defense against, presuming the other is unblockable).

As is, later on these Rogue abilities aren't that great, unless you start buffing his attacks with Potions and/or Spells, in which case he could be much more powerful.

Attack Dice: 1 (normal for a dagger) + 1 (next to an ally) + 2 (courage) + 2 (potion of strength) = 6 attack dice! (for one turn, 4 for each attack thereafter)

The Bandolier is a piece of equipment but it could be stolen by an Ice Gremlin. Granted he could throw daggers at the little fiend and try to stop him (good luck with 3 body points!) but without his bandolier, he's losing each dagger he throws (better carry some spares, good thing they're cheap!). He can buy another one but it may be a long time until the next quest (carry a spare bandolier?). Just keep in mind that Ice Gremlins tend to appear in pairs or trios! Too bad he can't even wear that Thief Proof plate armor...

The Rogue would be a nice way to get some use out of those weaker (but cheaper!) weapons. He can wear bracers but that's it for armor so yeah, weaker than the Wizard in terms of defense (Potions of Defense and Rock Skin are needed!). Being able to pass through monsters on any movement is a nice idea of course to prevent getting trapped.

Some are saying that the Rogue starts only with a dagger, nothing more, presuming he has to buy his Bandolier! That would make him extremely weak on his first quest, unless he joins an existing party that has gold to buy him one. I somehow doubt that's what they intended unless the back of the hero card is any clue.


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Re: New 'Hero Collection': Rogue Heir of Elethorn (Dec '22)

Postby SirRick » Sunday August 7th, 2022 7:54pm

iKarith wrote:The Rogue Heir can't use armor, but can sneak right past the enemy, dagger dagger every turn, and has got an unlimited supply of the things in that bandolier only she/he can use. But there's baddies that can one-hit kill the rogue who is even more screwed potentially than the wizard for armor, so … that's a thing.

I think I'm going to enjoy playing the rogue actually.


It does sound rather fun to play, so assuming they can at least use Bracers, they will only have 2 or 3 defend dice making them a high risk/high reward character. The low defense seems a reasonable trade off for how powerful this character can be.


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Re: New 'Hero Collection': Rogue Heir of Elethorn (Dec '22)

Postby Kurgan » Sunday August 7th, 2022 9:32pm

Yeah only one more BP than the Wizard, and no magic (no healing). Ice Gremlins would be the bane of his existence, but supported by the magic of other players he could do well. He wouldn't want to go it alone... (one of his Skills assumes an ally).


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Re: New 'Hero Collection': Rogue Heir of Elethorn (Dec '22)

Postby elvyler » Monday August 8th, 2022 11:21am

I compiled all of our current information about the new Rogue Heir in one place. We should have enough to start playtesting.
https://elvyler.com/2022/08/gencon-2022 ... uest-news/
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Re: New 'Hero Collection': Rogue Heir of Elethorn (Dec '22)

Postby lestodante » Monday August 8th, 2022 1:18pm

We have to see if Ambidextrous will follow the same rules for multiple attacks like the Polar Warbear, for which the attacked figures may only defend once (so, no chance to defend from the second strike).
I really hope they can only use one single ability at time. Otherwise, since it's easy that a monster is next to another hero, it will always be a 2+2 attack or a 3+1 attack, where the second attack doesn't offer any chance to defend (apart the rule from Into the Northland digital flyleaf).


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Re: New 'Hero Collection': Rogue Heir of Elethorn (Dec '22)

Postby ljcreeper02 » Monday August 29th, 2022 5:20pm

Are there official rules for when the new characters such as the commander of the guardian knights and the Rogue Heir can be introduced into the game? Also, are they meant to replace one of the original 4 heroes, or does the party jump to 5-6 heroes? My guess is players get to choose which hero they want to quest with, but the hero party stays at 4.
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Re: New 'Hero Collection': Rogue Heir of Elethorn (Dec '22)

Postby HispaZargon » Monday August 29th, 2022 5:52pm

ljcreeper02 wrote:Are there official rules for when the new characters such as the commander of the guardian knights and the Rogue Heir can be introduced into the game? Also, are they meant to replace one of the original 4 heroes, or does the party jump to 5-6 heroes? My guess is players get to choose which hero they want to quest with, but the hero party stays at 4.

Good question... as far as I know there is no official explanation about it, but I would like to thought the same as you. The intention should be keeping the party with four heroes maximum since quest maps are mostly designed for four heroes.

However, it is also true that Mentor words written in Commander of the Guardian Knights expansion's flyer could also make confusion with these words: "...In the spirit of the mighty warrior Rogar, I call on you as the King's elite guardian knights to rise up against the forces of Dread to protect your fellow heroes and defend the Realm." Moreover, in case of Rogue Heir of Elethorn, its story card indicates the following refering to the rogue elves included there: "...You may be of assistance to those heroes who step forward to lead a counteraatack".

Could those lines mean the party may be larger than four heroes up to six... or even eight with both mini-expansions? Well, I don't have an official answer for that...


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Re: New 'Hero Collection': Rogue Heir of Elethorn (Dec '22)

Postby Kurgan » Monday August 29th, 2022 6:03pm

Interesting thoughts of course, as I was imagining the Guardian Knights serving as mercenaries in the first place... it's too bad they were sold out so quickly (and now too expensive to be useful in this way for most players, unless you're homebrewing them back into the game with proxies). At least we are getting official mercenaries in greater numbers in the Frozen Horror set (and... speculatively, in the Mage of the Mirror remake next Spring as well, aka EQP remake).

It seems the same pattern is being followed with this Hero as with all of the new ones so far (other than the Bard in "Spirit Queen's Torment" mythic exclusive questbook which merely served as a backup hero for the first one to die), that is, use them (or don't) any way you want to.

Presumably the game is still 2-5 players (or 1 player possible, if using the companion App), but yes, if you wanted to add extra heroes I don't see the harm, because some quests are built with mercenaries in mind which can add potentially another 24 BP worth of firepower to a quest on the heroic player side (I don't think a fifth hero, with 4-7 BP will make much difference here)... or just hard quests generally. Playing "Rogar's Hall," Frozen Horror, Mage of the Mirror (if it's as unchanged as FH was) you should be fine adding an extra hero (or even two or three) and not really affect things too much. The game will take longer, but it would if you had 12 mercenaries to keep track of as well, certainly. To me having fewer assets for each player to manage could actually speed up the game, potentially, unless they have no attention span to wait for their turn!


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Re: New 'Hero Collection': Rogue Heir of Elethorn (Dec '22)

Postby ljcreeper02 » Monday August 29th, 2022 7:57pm

HispaZargon wrote:
ljcreeper02 wrote:Are there official rules for when the new characters such as the commander of the guardian knights and the Rogue Heir can be introduced into the game? Also, are they meant to replace one of the original 4 heroes, or does the party jump to 5-6 heroes? My guess is players get to choose which hero they want to quest with, but the hero party stays at 4.

Good question... as far as I know there is no official explanation about it, but I would like to thought the same as you. The intention should be keeping the party with four heroes maximum since quest maps are mostly designed for four heroes.

However, it is also true that Mentor words written in Commander of the Guardian Knights expansion's flyer could also make confusion with these words: "...In the spirit of the mighty warrior Rogar, I call on you as the King's elite guardian knights to rise up against the forces of Dread to protect your fellow heroes and defend the Realm." Moreover, in case of Rogue Heir of Elethorn, its story card indicates the following refering to the rogue elves included there: "...You may be of assistance to those heroes who step forward to lead a counteraatack".

Could those lines mean the party may be larger than four heroes up to six... or even eight with both mini-expansions? Well, I don't have an official answer for that...


Thank you for the response. I wonder if Avalon Hill will provide true explanation of the rules?
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