Hero Quest 2021 Remake: Errata Compilation

[Kurgan]

Edited by HispaZargon: post moved from thread "Re: Is "see" the same thing as "line of sight?"".

Here is how I handle the Crossbow/Longsword thing and to me this is the simplest way:

I treat the Longsword as written in the NA edition and the Crossbow I simply ignore the "official rule clarification" that says it can hit the four orthogonally adjacent close diagonal squares (meaning the eight squares surrounding a figure are off limits for hitting with the Crossbow, period... taking my cue from how the Japanese edition was revealed to handle the weapon).

This to me makes them complementary weapons... you buy one to hit the close and diagonals and the other to hit the squares out from your miniature. Otherwise yes, save yourself 100 gold and purchase a broadsword instead for the same effects.

So yes, Crossbow and Longsword are kept the same price, and both are still "one handed" weapons (only the Staff and BattleAxe not being compatible with the Shield matters when it comes to "handedness" in my interpretation).

I am fine with the idea of more instances of being able to hit characters without moving, but I like to avoid people getting upset and arguing about it so making the general rule of thumb as clear as possible. In practice however the player can ask if they can hit it and Zargon has the final say, period. When I'm feeling generous in my public Twitch games I'll let them roll 1 die for an "uncommon feat" (if they can convince me how their exception is plausible) with a 50% chance of success. Fail and you might end up hitting your friend instead!

[SirRick]

There are apparently multiple versions of the line of sight image.

This one is from the rulebook/quest book combined pdf from Hasbro, and the image is different from either of the previous two images posted. The line starts from the center of the Elf’s square and cuts through the Wizard’s square while not touching the Wizard icon. This image does follow the procedure mentioned in the rules of drawing a line from the center of the caster to the center of the target.

I’m not really sure what to make of this except that perhaps the pdf might have the newest image available. This image seems to indicate the right-middle orc is clearly visible.

IMG_0230.jpeg

[Escopana 1]

I like to think that as a team the elf warned the wizard to duck, allowing line of sight/fire to aim for the middle orc.

[HispaZargon]

Ok, thanks SirRick and Escopana 1.

It seems that Hasbro had with such diagram the clear intention of ilustrating that the middle Orc is in the Line of Sight of the Elf, even if they had to force a deviation of the line position from the square center of the Orc.

So... please correct me if I am wrong or somebody has more extra data, but as far as we know, then up to now there are only two different versions of the English rulebook, which are the following ones:

- English Rulebook ref. "F3649 F3654": Included in all V1 game boxes, but maybe also included in the earliest V2 game boxes (To Be Confirmed). This rulebook has by mistake the mentioned missing line in the LoS diagram of page 14.

- English Rulebook ref. "F2847": Included at least in all V2 game boxes sold since Jan/2023 up to now, but maybe it has been included in all V2 game boxes, including the earliest ones (To Be Confirmed). This rulebook includes all the lines in the LoS diagram of page 14 as per classic's LoS diagram.

And what happens with the Spanish version of the rulebook? Well, after some more investigations that I got from other Spanish owners of the game, I can confirm the following:

Up to now there are only two different versions of the Spanish rulebook, which are the following ones:

- Spanish Rulebook ref. "0621 F2847 105": Included in all V1 game boxes AND in the earliest V2 game boxes sold before Dec/2022 or Jan/2023. This rulebook has all the errata reported in this thread up to now for the English rulebook, including the page 14's LoS diagram missing line, but also the other errata reported in this thread which are exclusive of the Spanish edition of the rulebook.

- Spanish Rulebook ref. "0422 F2847 SS0": Included in all V2 game boxes sold since Jan/2023 up to now. This rulebook includes many corrections to the errata detected in previous version, including the correction of the LoS diagram of page 14, BUT unfortunately it still keeps the following mistakes from previous version, exclusive of the Spanish edition of the rulebook:

-Page 4: Torture rack has been incorrectly translated as "Estante" instead of "Potro de tortura" like in classical version of the game.
- Page 19: Sub-chapter Cómo los héroes (excepto el Enano) Desactivan una Trampa sin Kit de Herramientas text indicates by mistake "Si sacas una Calavera, has caído en la Trampa, sufriendo 1 Punto de Daño Corporal". Attending to the original text in English, the correct translation of this sentence should had been the following: "Si sacas una calavera, has caído en la Trampa, sufriendo Daño Corporal".
- Page 20: Sub-chapter Cómo el Enano desactiva una trampa text indicates by mistake "Si sacas un Escudo Negro, has caído en la Trampa, sufriendo 1 Punto de Daño Corporal". Attending to the original text in English, the correct translation of this sentence should had been the following: "Si sacas un Escudo Negro, has caído en la Trampa, sufriendo Daño Corporal".

Finally, I can also confirm that the exclusive errata reported in the rest of components (cards, questbook, etc.) of Spanish edition of the game still remain in the V2 game box being sold today, unfortunately.

Edited: I have updated the errata summaries here and here according to the data written on this post.

[HispaZargon]

Here is how I handle the Crossbow/Longsword thing and to me this is the simplest way:

I treat the Longsword as written in the NA edition and the Crossbow I simply ignore the "official rule clarification" that says it can hit the four orthogonally adjacent close diagonal squares (meaning the eight squares surrounding a figure are off limits for hitting with the Crossbow, period... taking my cue from how the Japanese edition was revealed to handle the weapon).

This to me makes them complementary weapons... you buy one to hit the close and diagonals and the other to hit the squares out from your miniature. Otherwise yes, save yourself 100 gold and purchase a broadsword instead for the same effects.

So yes, Crossbow and Longsword are kept the same price, and both are still "one handed" weapons (only the Staff and BattleAxe not being compatible with the Shield matters when it comes to "handedness" in my interpretation).

About Crossbow official rules clarification by Hasbro, maybe the mistake is not allowing its use against enemies in diagonal squares, it makes sense for me. Maybe the real mistake is allowing the use of the Crossbow combined with a Shield. I can imagine someone shooting a regular bow with a Shield in their bow-hand, however I cannot imagine somone shooting a Crossbow and handdling a Shield at the same time with one of his hands. Not allowing the Shield with a Crossbow I think compensates the diagonal squares advantage given by Hasbro to the Crossbow in terms of gold price, compared with the Longsword.

But another problem would arise with this: There are not official rules to deal with the idea of carrying a Shield in the back of the hero, but not allowing its use in combination with i.e. a Battle Axe, no rules which control the time a Hero needs to change his equipment in hands by the equipment he has in the back, belt or backpack, etc... so new gaps would appear, target for more homebrewing

[Kurgan]

Realism and historical accuracy always take a backseat for me in these games, but in real life there are "pistol crossbows" that can be fired one handed and (if you're clever) can be loaded one handed as well. Battle axes can be used with a shield in real life as well, plate armor would not cut your movement speed in half (or slow down a trained fighter much at all). Broadswords don't look like the "broadsword" in heroquest (a basket hilted Scottish weapon vs. the more arming sword looking weapon we might think of). Longswords can be wielded one handed but are more commonly used with two hands. Game mechanics, balance and challenge (and the lore and flavor of these games is closer to mimicing popular media like comics, movies and video games than real life history) take precedence over realism to me.

Things people often complain about when it comes to "realism" (like firing crossbows or throwing knives long distances) tend to be more plausible (look at the world records sometime) or carrying a lot of arrows into battle (in real battles, archers had access to plenty of arrows or bolts and they fired a lot more than most heroes will fire in an entire quest) than say someone lugging 500 gold coins around, or the many potion bottles (carrying all that gear never seems to slow you down and nobody complains much about that!). Even popular video games that limit carrying capacity still kind of assume you are carrying hundreds of pounds of bulky equipment around without hindrance. Whether the artwork is 100% accurate or not, you could say that some form of the weapons they describe could exist but might not function exactly the way the game simulates them even if you set aside the fantastical elements of the game that have no real precedent in earth history (outside of myths and legends). If someone can only enjoy the game if they imagine there are "invisible" porters carrying all the gear, that's fine. I can dismiss a lot of these things by the mere fact that these are HEROES, who are just bloody good at their jobs, the best in the biz!

Why should a crossbow not be able to be fired at an enemy that is at close range (fist striking distance)? That's not realistic at all, but it's in the game. I think probably they would have meant to exclude the 8 squares in 1990 but just made a omission using imprecise language (much as they did with Courage, as pointed out to me, they squashed the language of the 1st and 2nd EU editions together instead of just using the much more clear language of the 2nd edition alone) and then later people interpreted it that way because it was a loophole.

But, guessing at what they intended is always a tricky thing. People play it how they want to, but technically they are not saying you can't do something, so people assume you can. It's ambiguous.

In the EU editions aiming wasn't so important. If you were in the same room with them, you could hit them and if you were in a corridor you could hit them so long as another body wasn't in your path to intercept the shot. But in the NA edition you can trace almost as many lines so its "shooting accuracy" only goes down a little bit in official quests.

[HispaZargon]

The following errata was found only in the Spanish Edition of The Frozen Horror expansion:

THE FROZEN HORROR expansion box content:

Questbook:

- Page 37: Text "Cada vez que el Yeti ataca a un Héroe, éste pierde al menos 1 Punto Corporal y el Yeti se aferra al Héroe con un brutal abrazo." is an incorrect translation of the English text, and it should had been "Cada vez que el Yeti cause al menos 1 Punto Corporal al atacar a un Héroe, el Yeti atrapará al Héroe con un brutal abrazo.", which doesn't mean the same from game mechanics standpoint.

Edited: I have updated the errata summary here according to the data written on this post.

[Bareheaded Warrior]

Maybe the real mistake is allowing the use of the Crossbow combined with a Shield. I can imagine someone shooting a regular bow with a Shield in their bow-hand, however I cannot imagine somone shooting a Crossbow and handdling a Shield at the same time with one of his hands. Not allowing the Shield with a Crossbow I think compensates the diagonal squares advantage given by Hasbro to the Crossbow in terms of gold price, compared with the Longsword.

The point is that you don't ever use the crossbow with a shield. I don't mean that you are or are not allowed to, I mean that the situation never arises. A shield gives you an extra combat die in defence so is only ever relevant when you are defending against someone else's attack, that is on another person's turn. The crossbow is only relevant when you are shooting someone with it, that is on your own turn. The two never need to mix as at any given point it is either your turn or it is not.

This can be rationalised by a hero, on their turn as an action, stowing their sword and shield, drawing their crossbow, loading and shooting at a target and then restoring their previous configuration. Arguments could be made against this on the grounds of realism, but then these are trumped by a simpler gameplay experience, which is what HQ is about. This is why you should not be able to use a missile weapon if you have a monster on any square that is next to you (adjacent or diagonal)* because if you do have a monster that close then you need to keep your hand-to-hand weapons ready to attack or defend.

The reason why this is stated as adjacent only in the rulebook is because at that basic stage of the game that statement is accurate, once the game becomes more advanced and you have heroes and monsters with diagonal attack weapons, then that prohibition extends to both adjacent and diagonal squares. (It also states in the rulebook that you can only attack adjacent targets and not diagonal ones, again that is true at the basic level but is later extended to include diagonals when diagonal attack weapons are introduced later)

*To be clear this doesn't just mean that you cannot shoot a target in a square that is next to you, it means that you cannot shoot at any target if you have a monster next to you.

[HispaZargon]

Maybe the real mistake is allowing the use of the Crossbow combined with a Shield. I can imagine someone shooting a regular bow with a Shield in their bow-hand, however I cannot imagine somone shooting a Crossbow and handdling a Shield at the same time with one of his hands. Not allowing the Shield with a Crossbow I think compensates the diagonal squares advantage given by Hasbro to the Crossbow in terms of gold price, compared with the Longsword.

The point is that you don't ever use the crossbow with a shield. I don't mean that you are or are not allowed to, I mean that the situation never arises. A shield gives you an extra combat die in defence so is only ever relevant when you are defending against someone else's attack, that is on another person's turn. The crossbow is only relevant when you are shooting someone with it, that is on your own turn. The two never need to mix as at any given point it is either your turn or it is not.

This can be rationalised by a hero, on their turn as an action, stowing their sword and shield, drawing their crossbow, loading and shooting at a target and then restoring their previous configuration. Arguments could be made against this on the grounds of realism, but then these are trumped by a simpler gameplay experience, which is what HQ is about. This is why you should not be able to use a missile weapon if you have a monster on any square that is next to you (adjacent or diagonal)* because if you do have a monster that close then you need to keep your hand-to-hand weapons ready to attack or defend.

*To be clear this doesn't just mean that you cannot shoot a target in a square that is next to you, it means that you cannot shoot at any target if you have a monster next to you.

Thanks, very well thought approach... you were close to change my mind about it , unfortunately maybe I have not understood it well because, sorry I think your interpretation does not fit well for example with Battle Axe card rules as written on its card. If your interpretation was correct, doen't matter if a hero uses a Battle Axe to attack a monster, he could defend with the Shield if he owns it because the monster attack happens during the Monster turn and the hero could have had enough time to change which equipment has in hands before being attacked, however of course the Battle Axe rules says that he cannot. In other words, when the hero wielding a Battle Axe can use a Shield? Always could do it based in your approach, but we know they cannot. Of course this is going an extra mile further, but ...

Implicitly, I have always understood that the Hero who uses a weapon during his turn, uses it during the whole turn, including the next turns of the other heroes and Zargon turn. In other words, the hero only wields the equipment he use on his turn until his next turn. This fits with the idea of wielding a Battle Axe, owning a Shield (for example on the back or left at the floor) but the shield may not be used in the same turn as the axe if the hero is attacked, although the hero owns one. Of course, this is an interpretation, not written anywhere in the rules, but it fits with the rest of the rules written.

The reason why this is stated as adjacent only in the rulebook is because at that basic stage of the game that statement is accurate, once the game becomes more advanced and you have heroes and monsters with diagonal attack weapons, then that prohibition extends to both adjacent and diagonal squares. (It also states in the rulebook that you can only attack adjacent targets and not diagonal ones, again that is true at the basic level but is later extended to include diagonals when diagonal attack weapons are introduced later)

However, it is also true that both NA rulebooks clearly states on this picture what means "diagonally" and what means "adjacently", so maybe here we have the official implicit answer to this question, and the Crossbow may be used against diagonally placed enemies (as Hasbro confirmed now for the remake), since "adjacently" has been officialy considered different to "diagonally" since 1990:

Adjacently_Diagonaly_Meanings_NA_Classic.JPG

Adjacently_Diagonaly_Meanings_NA_Remake.JPG

Those were my 2 cents.

[Bareheaded Warrior]

If your interpretation was correct, doesn't matter if a hero uses a Battle Axe to attack a monster, he could defend with the Shield if he owns it because the monster attack happens during the Monster turn and the hero could have had enough time to change which equipment has in hands before being attacked, however of course the Battle Axe rules says that he cannot. In other words, when the hero wielding a Battle Axe can use a Shield? Always could do it based in your approach, but we know they cannot. Of course this is going an extra mile further, but ...

Not correct, because switching weapons can only happen when you don't have a monster next to you and if you are attacking a monster with the battle axe then he must be adjacent to you.

The reason why this is stated as adjacent only in the rulebook is because at that basic stage of the game that statement is accurate, once the game becomes more advanced and you have heroes and monsters with diagonal attack weapons, then that prohibition extends to both adjacent and diagonal squares. (It also states in the rulebook that you can only attack adjacent targets and not diagonal ones, again that is true at the basic level but is later extended to include diagonals when diagonal attack weapons are introduced later)

However, it is also true that both NA rulebooks clearly states on this picture what means "diagonally" and what means "adjacently", so maybe here we have the official implicit answer to this question, and the Crossbow may be used against diagonally placed enemies (as Hasbro confirmed now for the remake), since "adjacently" has been officially considered different to "diagonally" since 1990:

Adjacently_Diagonaly_Meanings_NA_Classic.JPG

Adjacently_Diagonaly_Meanings_NA_Remake.JPG

Those were my 2 cents.

I wasn't suggesting any confusion between adjacent and diagonal (a diagram was provided to make it 100% clear that they were referring to adjacent and NOT diagonals), I was suggesting that rulebooks often use an approach that I refer to as "layering" where they present the basic "true, most of the time" version of the rules first and then later introduce exceptions and complications as an extra layer on top of the basics.

For example

To attack a monster or a character, you must be in one of the four squares: to the side, front or rear. You cannot attack diagonally...
However you may not use the crossbow or throw a weapon if you are adjacent to your opponent...
Characters may not search if they are adjacent to a monster...

All of which is correct and consistent in the context of the basic rules

However once you add another layer on top of this with

The Spear may be used to attack diagonally.

Then you have expanded 'attacking' to potentially include both diagonals and adjacent squares so you need to reconsider the 'basic' rules from above in light of this and expand them to match therefore you CAN now attack diagonally, you CANNOT use the crossbow or throw a weapon if you are adjacent or diagonal to an opponent and you CANNOT search if you are adjacent or diagonally to a monster.

For ease of wording I use the phrase "next to" to mean adjacent and/or diagonal