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THE CRYPT OF PERPETUAL DARKNESS discussion

Discuss general topics relating to HeroQuest that don't fit well in the categories below.

Re: THE CRYPT OF PERPETUAL DARKNESS discussion

Postby Edge » Friday November 19th, 2021 2:34pm

HispaZargon wrote:I have noticed that Dragon Spear card does not say anything about it can be thrown to a monster. The Spear card from classic EU HeroQuest allowed to thrown it to an enemy but losing it. I think it would be so epic to allow throwing the Dragon Spear to Venim in a desperate last minute attack, even if you lose the artifact!

I haven’t read most of this thread, but I immediately love this image.

And wait? Venim is not female? I absolutely imagined a Dragon Queen, especially with Manganiello’s devotion to Tiamat.
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Re: THE CRYPT OF PERPETUAL DARKNESS discussion

Postby therealshrek » Wednesday December 1st, 2021 11:27pm

Ok, couple notes.... and SPOILER ALERT!!!

The Crown is awesome. I dont know if anyone remembers but in more than one of the old expansions there are rooms that are Dark.
There is even one that that sais in the description that you can not see even by magical means. But more importantly the fact that when you are in this situation
you are minus 2 attack and -2 defense, cant run, cant do ranged attacks.... See a pattern :) Dark is Bad. haha
In this scenario, when you get to the Dragon it is protected by magical Darkness, but it only affects your Attacks, -2 for first couple rounds. Still nasty.

Anyway, Next note - The Dragon.
First thing is the base. We already have more than one miniature in previous expansions that sets the precedent for large creatures.
The Dragon should ne on a 4 square sized base.

Second. The Stats..... Not all bad, but......
We have Monsters with 10 hit points in older expansions, and all the Dragon gets is 5?
If you use a typical Barbarian, Elf, Dwarf, and Wizard. The only Hero with less hit points is the Wizard. Now lets look at advanced heroquest and the conversion
of a Dragon back to basic Heroquest. The 6 Attack and 6 Defense make it at least an Adult Dragon, which makes sense as the main Protagonist for the Quest. So this is Ok....
But that means it should have a minimum of 18 Body.

Second is its Mind of 4. They are old, wise, and cunning creatures with knowledge beyond a mere Heroes comprehension and the only hero its smarter than is the Barbarian?
It should be a 5 or 6, depending on age. Either works here and its Spell capability is where it should be.

Now the second part that is bad, Its non Spell Attacks. We have several examples of creatures like the Polar Warbear that can attack with two claws for 4 / 4.
If this was a direct conversion, its Attack Base would be 5 (not 6), and it would Attack with two Claws for 5/5, a Tail Attack of 4 (Tail is at -1 Att with range = 1/2 Attack and max targets = 1/2 Att
Dragons have a head... They can talk, they can cast Spells, they have Breath Weapons, and they have Teeth. And in addition to Claw/Claw/Tail, they get one Action with their head.
and if it chooses to Bite instead of using its Breath Weapon or casting a Spell, then its Bite Attack is +1 or 6 ATT (So at least one attack is right...) And actually its Breath Weapon
is pretty much good to go as well.

Next, real quick is the Spear. It is an Artifact, but it should still work like a Spear. So Yes, both Diagonal and Throwable.
Again if you take example from the conversion of Advanced Heroquest, then its not simply everything you throw you lose.
Even Arrows have a small chance of being recovered on 10 plus (2d6) (Hand Crafted / Crude Fletched Arrows always break)
Typical Throwing Items like Knives and Axes on a 7+, more durable weapons like a short sword thrown by a large character an Ogre perhaps... on 5+
Magical on 4+, Artifacts on 3+. Obviously anything can be broken so even an artifact would be lost on good ole Snake Eyes.

Anyway, obviously most of this is not officially heroquest since it is based on the Advanced Heroquest conversion tables.
But seriously, Ive used a Dragon before in custom games, and even at 18 Health, a decent group can take out a Dragon by itself with ease.
I actually doubled the Body pts for all Dragons in my games because they should be deadly even to a group of Knightly Heroes with the best equipment.
Poor venom can be killed by a single blow from the Spear with the right potion. Thats not right....
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Re: THE CRYPT OF PERPETUAL DARKNESS discussion

Postby Kurgan » Thursday December 2nd, 2021 8:31am

Perhaps the proposed conversion of the Mythic tier stuff to Advanced Hero Quest (and/or Warhammer Quest) could deserve its own thread(s)?

Maybe it's anti-climactic, but I'm not against the idea of a Dragon dying in a single blow, if it's planned right. Maybe the Heroes have earned it by that point...


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Re: THE CRYPT OF PERPETUAL DARKNESS discussion

Postby Kurgan » Saturday December 11th, 2021 2:14am

SPOILERS:

List of Artifact Locations for this quest book:

Quest 1: Ring of Return (repeat from GS)
Quest 1: Magical Throwing Dagger (repeat from KK/ROTWL)
Quest 4: 2 Random Spell Scrolls (could include Lightning Bolt or Tempest but presumably any from the Mythic tier decks should be used to draw from*)
Quest 6: Spell Scroll: Lightning Bolt (also exists in Prophecy of Telor)
Quest 6: Spell Scroll: Tempest (repeat from KK)
Quest 8: Dragon Spear
Quest 9: Crown of Shadows
* this would mean 14 total cards including: Courage (2x), Fire of Wrath (2x), Ball of Flame (2x), Heal Body (2x), Tempest, Rock Skin, Pass Through Rock, Genie and Sleep. There is no actual card for Lightning Bolt but you could substitute any one generic artifact to stand in for this ability when doing the "random draw."


SPOILERS

Prophecy of Telor Artifact Locations
Spirit Queen's Torment Artifact Locations
Crypt of Perpetual Darkness Artifact Locations
Last edited by Kurgan on Wednesday October 18th, 2023 12:33pm, edited 2 times in total.


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Re: THE CRYPT OF PERPETUAL DARKNESS discussion

Postby HispaZargon » Sunday January 16th, 2022 9:06am

Hi, SPOILERS AHEAD:

I was thinking about Venim's Lair darkness rules:

According to the questbook, darkness only affects to the number of attack dice of heroes... but what happens to spell casting? Can the Wizard cast spells in darkness without any restriction? And, what happens with "sight" rules, are all the monsters visible once the heroes enter the lair tile or maybe the farthest ones can be kept hidden a couple of turns? I would like to have seen those details explained in the questbook...

About Venim stats:

I consider that Venim should be the strongest Nemesis of all the available questpacks so I increased his BPs to 10 and his Mind Points to 6. Official 5 BPs for Venim, the same as an Ogre, for a dragon sucks a little bit for me... Moreover, according to classic fantasy, as therealshrek pointed above, dragons use to be very intelligent creatures so at least I better gave him 6 MPs, the same MPs as the Witch Lord, Fellmarak or the Storm Master, official 4 MPs for Venim is a low value in my opinion.

Some playtesting could give me an idea about increasing more its BPs, but at the moment 10 BPs I think would be enough, notice there are also a Gargoyle and 2 Mummies in the same room as the dragon...


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Re: THE CRYPT OF PERPETUAL DARKNESS discussion

Postby lestodante » Sunday January 16th, 2022 12:16pm

I agree, I would prefer him to be more powerful, more BP and MP.
Also with the Dragon Spear you can attack him with 4 combat dice!


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Re: THE CRYPT OF PERPETUAL DARKNESS discussion

Postby HispaZargon » Friday January 21st, 2022 11:24am

Yeah... and what do you think about the Minotaur Skeleton stats from quest #4?

Note C says it is a giant horned minotaur skeleton equiped with a battle axe... but its stats say it only has 3 attack dice, 3 defence dice and 2 body points... in my opinion it should had at least 4 attack dice due to the battle axe and at least 3 body points or more since it is suposed to be a giant creature... In the other hand 3 defence dice would be ok since it is an undead with no special armour.

About Movement the stats say 6 squares, I think would be ok too since although it is a skeleton, I imagine regular minotaurs as fast creatures in contrast to their size.


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Re: THE CRYPT OF PERPETUAL DARKNESS discussion

Postby Kurgan » Friday January 21st, 2022 11:39am

It could be but to me when you're dealing with a magical creature, all bets are off. It's a minotaur (strong) but it's undead (slow) but it's a skeleton (fast) but it's a giant (slow). It has a battle axe (strong) but the thing wielding it is weaker than a regular minotaur (unknown).*


*Unless the Lost Quest Packs have any data (as close to "official" as we may get!).


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Re: THE CRYPT OF PERPETUAL DARKNESS discussion

Postby Daedalus » Friday January 21st, 2022 12:59pm

HispaZargon wrote:Hi, SPOILERS AHEAD:

I was thinking about Venim's Lair darkness rules:

According to the questbook, darkness only affects to the number of attack dice of heroes... but what happens to spell casting? Can the Wizard cast spells in darkness without any restriction? And, what happens with "sight" rules, are all the monsters visible once the heroes enter the lair tile or maybe the farthest ones can be kept hidden a couple of turns? I would like to have seen those details explained in the questbook...

Wizard's of Morcar may provide some guidance through the Pit of Darkness, which is 30 feet deep. If we set 30 feet as a minimal qualifier for darkness, any figure six squares away isn't visible.
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Re: THE CRYPT OF PERPETUAL DARKNESS discussion

Postby Kurgan » Friday January 21st, 2022 1:59pm

Does it say figures inside a Pit of Darkness can't be seen though? I thought a figure on an adjacent square could still attack them...

Edit: Although the "Pit of Darkness" icons (introduced and described in Against the Ogre Horde) appear in Wizards of Morcar's quests, they aren't elaborated on. In ATOH these traps function like normal pits except that the damage taken by those who fall in varies with the type of Armor (or lack thereof) they are wearing, nothing more.

Quest 2 of WOM does mention magical darkness in a single room which affects monsters as well as heroes (but does NOT affect the undead figures)... they attack and defend with 2 less AND no ranged attacks are allowed in the darkness. I'm relying on Phoenix's versions here, but if I'm wrong based on the originals, please let me know.


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