The Wizard and game play questions

[Jalapenotrellis]

but they couldn't see how that was possible based off of how it was worded on the card.

The problem is if the wizard player is last... This makes the spell worthless. Rooms are usually emptied in 1 round, he can't cast it on himself and attack, if a monster is left, it simply vacates sight. There's no real controversy on understanding how it's worded, that is clear... The issue is the Wizard having weaker spells in the harder US version.

The rationale of putting the wizard last is part of the strategy in the game. Look at Sleep: if the heroes put the wizard first, the sleep spell is much more powerful than it is if it is put last because the monsters get two chances, immediately, to break the spell. If the wizard goes first, they get one chance to break the spell when it is cast.

All other spells except rock skin last for one turn. Rock skin is not game breaking allowing one extra defense die. Allowing two extra combat dice is pretty game breaking.

Similarly with courage: if it is cast first (wizard goes first), heroes have a chance to use the spell before it has a break for one attack. If it is cast last (wizard goes last), monsters can run out of line of sight to break the spell, but they also sacrifice possible chances to attack, which as monsters, is a big deal. Attacking is more powerful than defending in this game, and when Zargon only has a few things to control, he wants to do as much damage as possible.

Allowing it to be a slaughter fest makes no sense to me. All other spells are for single attacks (ball of flame, fire of wrath, genie) or single movement or one effective combat interaction (rock skin, tempest). It says specifically next attack and line of sight to make sure it isn't too powerful, to allow two conditions to break it.

[wallydubbs]

I think the rule book just suggests that the wizard go last due to lack of body points. It's a guideline for inexperienced players.
However, players that are more experienced may choose to send him out first due to reasons you just outlined (sleep spell).
It should be the heroes that decide what turn order they take (this can be done by choosing a seating arrangement if you do the circle thing).

In regards to the spells and their length, though I personally believe it was just worded badly, i think they meant for Courage to last longer. All rules that are not quite clear should be left for Zargon/Morcar to decide; The instruction manual is very clear on that.

Below is a picture of the original European spells Courage and Rock Skin. There's no mistaking that these were meant for a 1 turn use.

The 2nd edition of the game streaches the duration of these spells to either 1 body point or line of sight.

The American version, which is more difficult then the European version, has these spells worded so it can be taken either way. The decision, in your game group, is inevitably up to you.

[mitchiemasha]

I think the rule book just suggests that the wizard go last due to lack of body points. It's a guideline for inexperienced players.

Yeah... I'm with you for sure.

The rationale of putting the...

Judging by your reply you completely picked up on the wrong context of my words. I should of kept my reply focused rather than including more information.

You're players couldn't see why it's "controversial on the internet" because the controversy isn't around understanding the wording of the US card, it is very clear to how the words say it works. The rest of my words were to simply give you an idea of why and where the controversy is, not to restart the debate. We're already well aware of the variables you mentioned.

Well if the room is empty by the Wizard's turn, or just down to a monster or 2, don't cast it... especially not on himself.

Exactly...

[mitchiemasha]

Here are the 2nd edition EU cards


Which gives me an idea for those who like progression. If you have both edition decks, the Wizard only gets the 2nd edition cards after becoming a champion, wearing the Talisman or what ever. Without the extra MP he has the weaker spells.

[Jalapenotrellis]

I apologize if my replies were terse. I have been replying from my phone. Seeing the three different editions--completely make sense why there are three different interpretations. It's pretty clear though in each individual instance of the game, I agree.

[mitchiemasha]

I apologize if my replies were terse.

No need... I'm happy this has resulted in a new idea for my mods. I just need to source some first edition spell cards now. I have a few decks of 2nd. I've just bought a joblot of random bits off ebay cheap and it looks like there might be 2 decks in it, fingers crossed 1 is first.

[lestodante]

Prince Mitchiemasha I like your idea of the progression!!
What a pity only this 2 spells have a variant.
But we can go with custom cards for the others, of course.

[wallydubbs]

I think Future Sight could go for longer duration too.

[mitchiemasha]

What a pity only this 2 spells have a variant.

Damn it!!!!!!

[Daedalus]

The vanilla Wizard is a terribly underpowered scrub.

A note on Courage, the thing that fuels that spell is being able to see a Monster. As soon as you cannot see a monster the spell breaks and does nothing. This means if you cast the spell behind a closed door planning to move in and attack later then as soon as you cast the spell it will break because you cannot see a Monster.. . .

The Wizard isn't bad out of the blocks, but he does need some buffs as the Quests progress, in my opinion. Extra spell sets from artifacts fixes that well enough.

Regarding Courage, casting the spell outside of a closed door with no monsters in view does not break the spell. That is because "The spell is broken the moment the Hero can no longer "see" a monster." The qualifier "no longer" necessitates that a monster first is seen before the spell may end.

Rock Skin is another spell that got an unnecessary nerf. 1 combat die to defend isn't saving anyone anytime soon if it disappears after 1 point of damage. This spell isn't worth the trouble of saving then burning an action to cast. Problem is, it usually isn't worth casting in advance either because heroquest has ways of inflicting a point of damage on you here and there whether it's from a trap or something else.

I suppose the NA defense value was downgraded down to one combat die in response to a balance issue discovered in EU play. A +2 defensive buff cast on a Hero with 6 defend dice makes him that much more nigh-invulnerable against most monsters of the first two expansions.