Managing Hero Power Creep : Gold & Equipment

[whitebeard]

I am a huge fan of what has been called "Vanilla" HeroQuest and minimalist expansions like Kellar's Keep. In my opinion HQ sets itself apart because it does not have or need character progression like every other RPG and the Wizard is not so broken that a few more minor artifacts cannot not make him the most powerful hero on the board.

As play continues beyond the original 14 base quests the issue of heroes maxing out the armory and having nothing left to buy becomes a concern. Kellar's Keep "solves" this by making ridiculously expensive potions available which have only minor benefits relative to the ones found in the treasure deck which are presumably worth on the order of 45 gold coins.

Theft, the rust spell, an encounter with a rust monster, or attempting to break down a door and having weapons or armor fail... These events can keep the heroes spending and shopping. But I am constantly searching for proactive approaches to rid the heroes of their money BEFORE everyone is walking around with a crossbow and battle axe.

Please contribute your non-conventional ideas here for ways the players can / must spend their money.

My thought is that I should update this first post with the ideas given in this thread. Here is what I have so far:

Special Equipment: One time use items, Rope, lanterns, a map, etc. These are required to initiate the quest.

The Snake Oil Salesman: The exact nature of a powerful adversary is not known. Rumors abound and every rumored weakness requires the heroes buy a piece of otherwise useless equipment... And this traveling salesman is gouging the hell out of you. I have a quest where the heroes roll on a rumor table (each hero hears two) and the undead threat varies from a Vampire, ghost, Banshee, etc. Some requiring very expensive protection and/or exorcism method. The materials purchased are shoddy and useless beyond potential application in this quest.

Weight Lifting : You must flee a dungeon rapidly or ride a rickety old boat. You must leave equipment and/or gold behind (players choose which) to reduce weight.

Information: You encounter an informant in the dungeon. You are advised to pay him for what he knows.

Bribery: You need a guard to look the other way or sever an alarm bell connecting the dungeon to re-enforcements.

Poison: You have been "poisoned" by that final wall dart or spear trap. A harmless paste / sap was placed on several trap weapon tips, you noticed this and are easily convinced it was poison. The thief at the end / exit of the labyrinth sells you the "antidote" for all of your gold and/or gives you a sleeping draft and steals all of your gold after you drink it.

Wishing well: You must throw a coin into a specific location to trigger an event (roll a 12 with 2 red dice). Coins which do not make it are not retrievable (fall into a chasm or are guarded by a water elemental who would drown you instantly, etc)

The Smithy: You must have a custom one-time use weapon or item forged. The players have some freedom to decide what.

Restless Undead: The spirit of a miserly lord cannot be defeated and repeatedly demands during battle that you immediately restore his treasure (taken by a previous adventurer)! The room is sealed and the solution is not "obvious".

Broken Promises: The promised reward for quest completion is beyond the poor villagers' ability to pay.

Pressure Plate Switch: A switch must be held to keep a door open. Leaving behind gold and equipment will work to hold it open. If the heroes return with something (like an Orc corpse) to replace the items left behind, they find their items missing and the trap reset.

You break it, you bought it: You are in debt / indentured to a prominent noble after a fiasco protecting one of his treasures. You might kill the monsters and protect his family, but the odds you protect the "objective" are VERY slim. In the end you owe him a LOT of money after accepting the quest and failing. He argues he could have killed the monsters, you were hired to do that AND protect the treaty, battleplans, spelbook, etc. He appears between quests to take payments (1/2 of all gold?) until a sum of 2000 Gold Pieces is payed back?

[Goblin-King]

One important thing you are completely missing is KILLING heroes.
Do what you can to kill a hero or two here and there - destroy the equipment left behind!

[whitebeard]

One important thing you are completely missing is KILLING heroes.
Do what you can to kill a hero or two here and there - destroy the equipment left behind!

Actually I was thinking of this when I titled the post " : Gold". I would propose another topic "Managing Hero Power Creep : Equipment" which specifically targets creative ways to rid the party of favorite equipment (they would then want to re-buy / find). And finally "Managing Hero Power Creep : Death" which provides creative ways to fully reset players who die, e.g. killing heroes and destroying all or most of their artifacts.

I hope the scope of the post is now clear. I'm looking for creative ways to deal with the heroes collectively amassing treasure. Killing heroes is certainly one way to get where you need to be and there are lots of creative ways to do that. To get the requested effect, you effectively need to kill them ALL. Otherwise the party usually outfits the new guy when he shows up. The North America rules are explicit that equipment is lost only if there is no one in the same room who subsequently clears it and recovers it. You need a special rule in the quest pack (overriding the "vanilla" rule ) or as a note on every quest to get what you want . Like the original 14 quests, I try not to write quests which are complete death traps. We do manage to lose a hero or two every other outing and for the reasons listed, this does not typically have the desired outcome. I've been close to a total party wipe, only to have the players roll ridiculous final attacks (like 4 skulls) or mind point based saves.

I do introduce game mechanics in quests in an attempt to isolate heroes to enhance the possibility that a hero will die in a room alone. The possibility of diverse death events which result in the loss of equipment is something I would consider "off topic" here. Death in a pit trap of acid or lava... "nobody wants to jump down there and lose 2 BP / turn to recover your stuff. Sorry dude."

I listed a bunch of stuff, most of it off the top of my head. There must be a lot I'm missing. What else do you have GK?

Here is one more: Pressure plate switch to hold door open for last hero to exit (equipment and/or gold). There is no time for the Dwarf to do anything creative with stone demolition. Maybe they could double back and replace what was left behind with an Orc corpse? Maybe they think this at the start, but the dungeon has no monsters!!!

[j_dean80]

Poison Arrow - This Trap fires in a straight line until it hits a Hero, Monster, or a wall. The firing direction and starting point is marked by an arrow. Only Heroes can trigger this Trap. Any Hero or Monster struck by this Arrow loses 1BP per turn. The Poison's affects can be stopped only with a Poison Antidote.

This is a new trap I came up with for my new Quest Pack I've been working on. This will help some. The Antidote costs 300 to heal 2 BP and only can be used once per Quest or else it in itself is poisonous in large doses.

[whitebeard]

Poison Arrow - This Trap fires in a straight line until it hits a Hero, Monster, or a wall. The firing direction and starting point is marked by an arrow. Only Heroes can trigger this Trap. Any Hero or Monster struck by this Arrow loses 1BP per turn. The Poison's affects can be stopped only with a Poison Antidote.

This is a new trap I came up with for my new Quest Pack I've been working on. This will help some. The Antidote costs 300 to heal 2 BP and only can be used once per Quest or else it in itself is poisonous in large doses.

Offering poison antidote which compliments a specific type of enemy (like a particular tribe of goblins known to use the poison) makes a lot of sense for a single quest. My objective is for the heroes to end a quest with much less gold than they started with. If the antidote is expensive, the heroes will rely on healing spells and potions found in the dungeon.

How about a "You break it, you bought it" quest? Think GhostBusters...You are in debt / indentured to a prominent noble after a fiasco protecting one of his treasures. You might kill the monsters and protect his family, but the odds you protect the "objective" are VERY slim. In the end you owe him a LOT of money after accepting the quest and failing. He argues he could have killed the monsters, you were hired to do that AND protect the treaty, battleplans, spelbook, etc.

[j_dean80]

Offering poison antidote which compliments a specific type of enemy (like a particular tribe of goblins known to use the poison) makes a lot of sense for a single quest. My objective is for the heroes to end a quest with much less gold than they started with. If the antidote is expensive, the heroes will rely on healing spells and potions found in the dungeon.

The Heroes would burn through a lot of healing spells and potions quickly if they lose one BP per turn until cured. That would go between Quests as well. Just cause someone "goes home" after completing a Quest doesn't make them all of a sudden cured from a poison.

[whitebeard]

You're right. I have seen other poisons in HQ which act for just a few turns. Missed the part about permanent effect. I would end it if the hero rolls a 6 on a red die.

Thanks!

[Big Bene]

All these are great ideas, many of them fine subplots in their own right, some giving a whole new twist to the gaming experience.

But except for "Wight Lifting" and "pressure Plate Switch" they include NSCs making extraordinary expensive claims.
These may be perhaps understandable in the cases of "You break it, you bought it" and "Restless Undead".
But a weapon, a drug or even information can only go so far in price before smelling fishy. In a world where you can get a magical (!) potion for 100 to 500 Gold and a full armor for 850, when a townguard asks for 1500 gold to look the other way, players will suspect that you do it for some other purpose.
Well I don't know just how much you want / need to drain them. Just a thought.

[Goblin-King]

Acid trap: A highly corrosive acid sprays all over one random piece of equipment. The hero will need to instantly throw that item away.

Water: A hero with 4 or more in +Defense can't swim and must either discard armor down to the point where he is at +3 or lower. How to get them into water is your headache.

Magical guardian: An ugly little creature will open a magical passage for the heroes. At a price...

Blessing: Between quests a hero can pay a temple for a blessing. Once during the following quest he may re-roll 1 attack or defense roll.

[whitebeard]

All these are great ideas, many of them fine subplots in their own right, some giving a whole new twist to the gaming experience.

Still looking for more. If the players can lose several hundred gold in a quest that is at their discretion (e.g. does not involve the Quest notes simply taking their money away), then I think they are indeed winning ideas.

But except for "Wight Lifting" and "pressure Plate Switch" they include NSCs making extraordinary expensive claims.
These may be perhaps understandable in the cases of "You break it, you bought it" and "Restless Undead".
But a weapon, a drug or even information can only go so far in price before smelling fishy. In a world where you can get a magical (!) potion for 100 to 500 Gold and a full armor for 850, when a townguard asks for 1500 gold to look the other way, players will suspect that you do it for some other purpose.
Well I don't know just how much you want / need to drain them. Just a thought.

If the heroes are carrying 1500 gold, then I would say that the EWP has already lost. Quests which by design decrease the net worth of all characters might happen 1/4 of the time? If you do this, then you can mix in the occasional treasure horde and still be in constant need of equipment (as a group) after 10 quests. I would hope that no more than 1 or 2 of these ideas get applied in a single 10 quest package.

Back to your example. I would expect maybe 2 or 3 guards in the dungeon (depending on the path taken) that ask for 100 gold each. And the ensuing combat, if the bribe is denied is equally "expensive" (someone is likely to die and the notes state that thieves in the shadows drag off the belongings - Thanks GK!). This and the fact that the quest would have no explicit cash reward, sets the heroes back monetarily while moving them forward in the plot.