Gamemaster run or Cooperative GMless game?

[cornixt]

I see people complaining that it limits replayability, but I don't think it really does. At the end if the year, I'll have a customized copy of pandemic that I've played a minimum of 24 times and a fun story that has unfolded. There's no reason not to play the final board state as often as desired. Let's face it if you're playing a legacy game you probably already own the vanilla version too.

I completely agree with you. The argument against it seems to be that the final layout isn't the playtested version that everyone else has, so it's not the "proper" version of the game and is therefore useless. It's a silly argument, especially for a game where you can change the difficulty level so easily. Or that the resale value is so low - I don't think that many people buy games with the idea of selling them later.

[Goblin-King]

I don't think that many people buy games with the idea of selling them later.

I think more than you'd expect are planning to sell.
We live in a world where board games can easily cost £70-100.
Resale is definitely a factor.

And have you seen the prices on HQ stuff?

[QorDaq]

I don't think that many people buy games with the idea of selling them later.

I think more than you'd expect are planning to sell.
We live in a world where board games can easily cost £70-100.
Resale is definitely a factor.

And have you seen the prices on HQ stuff?

Yeah prices are crazy, back to the context of HQ... I certainly don't propose destroying anything that's original HQ.

I could, however, see some kind of a scenario where a fan "Creates" a legacy-esque version of the game for other fans to discover. Again, not sure how it might work, but I totally imagine homebrew stuff, not collectible classics...Heh.

[Goblin-King]

Yeah prices are crazy, back to the context of HQ... I certainly don't propose destroying anything that's original HQ.

I've actually destroyed lots of original HQ stuff!
Mainly I've killed lots of orcs and goblins for their bases.
I've destroyed certain minis by practicing painting.
But worst of all - And I was a stupid kid back then - I've actually cut a couple of minis to pieces because I needed some plastic bits. What was I thinking!?

[clmckay]

Really that wouldn't be all that different from a custom quest pack with branching paths. I've done that with my own quest packs and I *think* that Teldurn's QP did something similiar, though I can't swear to it at the moment.

In any event it should be easy enough to expand on just using the base quests. When we started the new HQ campaign awhile back I used a quest card system where the group had multiple quests to choose from. Taking this a legacy route, in the Quests running up to the deak of Grak or Ulag or whoever it was Zargon could have had an extra group of Orcs to place in Quests until they were defeated. A similiar thing could have been done for any quests completed after the Witchlord awakes until they finally defeat him. I know that my players ended up waking the Witchlord but went back and did a few of the one-of quests before going back to get the Spirit Blade. In retrospect, perhaps all undead in those quests could have been strengthened as a result or more of them around, or anythign that the imagination can come up with.

In short, I think it'd be pretty easy to make a "legacy" system that'd overlay the existing base quests to spice things up a bit.

[QorDaq]

...But worst of all - And I was a stupid kid back then - I've actually cut a couple of minis to pieces because I needed some plastic bits. What was I thinking!?

Heh, I guess you were thinking "Outside of the Box"? Literally... *Chuckle*...

I don't think I ever cannibalized any of my HQ minis for parts, but I did alter some of the WHQ minis in the interest of adding new enemy types. The best example that comes to mind was taking a Goblin Spearman and clipping the tip of the spear off in order to make a staff for a Goblin Shaman. I think I added a bead or some such to the tip.

Really that wouldn't be all that different from a custom quest pack with branching paths. I've done that with my own quest packs and I *think* that Teldurn's QP did something similiar, though I can't swear to it at the moment...

...In short, I think it'd be pretty easy to make a "legacy" system that'd overlay the existing base quests to spice things up a bit.

Me too. And it might be interesting to create a branching tree of quests from all of the canon offerings. Which is kind of what you mention with the quest card system I think. Kind of like what Descent 2.0 and I.A. do, but maybe a little more complex.

And, I really like the idea of changing the monster types/ quantities (possibly even the locations of certain items?), based on the choices the party makes. This could go a long way towards changing things up for solo-play.

[MadMickyG]

I get extra HQ stuff solely for the purpose of altering to make new or improved monsters.

Took the Axe blade off 1 Chaos Warrior to make the Chaos Champions Battleaxe. Removed the ball and added the skull for my version of a Necormancer.


The axe blade came from this guy. 3 spare Fimirs lost their tails so I could make this multiheaded mace EDIT - I mean flail!!


Cut the legs of a CW to make this guy.


My Orc Monk with his Nunchuka (and the same on a Goblin) cost 4 Orcs with Flails to make!


My GargantuOrc cost me a dismembered Goblin:


And my Chaos Fury.....a Gargoyle and a Chaos Warrior!


Dont even get me started on what it took to make these 4!


My most recent work (no photos yet) is Fimir arms and legs on an Orcs body. Will take photos soon.

EDIT. Here he is with normal size Orc:


I will cut, clip, melt, glue and massacre anything HQ to make something new and terrifying. Like scaring my kids when they see me making something.
And I am bidding on more HQ and some Warhammer stuff so I can continue. Ordered a few more CWs as well. Love modding those guys!

EDIT: On topic, I voted for GM, although I would like to be able to play randomly generated, non GMed games as sometimes my kids dont want to play. But you cant beat a good planned quest!

Another EDIT: Won both HQ and WQ stuff. More new monsters to make! Woot!

[Daedalus]

So I voted GM, mostly because I feel like those games do run a bit deeper. But there is a caveat in that seeing as we are in the midst of a serious golden age of Co-Op games there is a ton to choose from.

The big advantage for me anyway, is that Co-Op allows for minimal prep-work and generally straightforward set-up. Now a game like HQ requires a lot less set-up of course, but when looking at games like Descent 2.0, Imperial Assault, Shadows of Brimstone, and so on, somebody NEEDS to be very familiar with the rules and also relatively familiar with the scenario the players will be tackling in a given session....

The newly released second edition of Mansions of Madness takes some evolved co-op approaches. It retains first-edition plot elements to be discovered via exploration, but adds an app to simplify map exploration and handling of all of the plot choices and reveals that formally required a GM. All this means less set-up time (formally a problem) and familiarity with the scenario by a player is no longer needed.

I like the Game master variant more, mainly because there can be a narrative in the dungeon setup that ties nicely with the narrative of the quest note and the overall campaign story.

A random dungeon is just that: random. Random means you remove any information and replace it with noise. There is no narrative and no thought-through setup. It's just... a row of rooms. For me that's boring. I need a story....

...Now if there would be a way to make it storyline driven and cooperative at the same time, I would like that most.

Have you looked at Mice and Mystics? It's a co-op with a rich, narrative campaign that sometimes includes optional story rewards that link to later adventures. Rooms are preset, though flipping tiles can delay revealing rooms until explored. Adventures typically hold 3-4 pages of thematic information to discover.

It's often hard to win, so I generally reveal special notes as part of vanilla play. A single player could easily hold certain info back as a pseudo DM, requiring other players to discover environmental details on their own. For instance, a guard/prison room features a fallen helmet. A hidden passage can be accessed below it, but only if a search is made from that square. I believe I cued my daughter to investigate it with a hint.

[Wolf]

I made a DM-less Campaign for Heroquest. I like either or but prefer playing with people and not just having single player. Other than that it's kinda whatever you're in the mood for.
The Death of Zargon

Have play tested it a bit so far and really love the encounters, yuh know until a random Chaos Warrior or two comes out of nowhere lol. It can be challenging with only 1 hero but can be just as fun. My first quest I found a hidden door. Of course I played the Barbarian the whole time due to it being such a close combat focused Campaign.

I hope anybody who likes it will like mine. I may upgrade it a bit though.