Some advice needed for introducing HQ to the next generation

[Bareheaded Warrior]

Thanks both for the feedback

I don't see how you can both make the monsters tougher and the combats shorter, seems like a contradiction

I agree it seems like a contradiction but the new combat rules do seem to do that when playing although I haven't yet crunched the numbers to prove it. With close combat weapons now having more attack dice and attacks counting black shields as skulls an attack that previously had 2 attack dice now has effectively 4 (+1 for the weapon changes and +1/3 for the dice changes) which makes the combat shorter and allowing both Heroes and Monsters to defend on White shields only makes the Monster defence comparable to the Heroes i.e. tougher.

Fists 1, Dagger 2, Short sword, Spear, Hand Axe, Staff 3, Broadsword 4, Battle Axe 5

With regards to special abilities for Heroes then yes I am planning on giving them all some special abilities to make them unique but I haven't finished this yet so only a sneak preview for now and some of this will only make sense in the context of other rule changes!

Barbarian [B] - extra 2 BP (8) to reflect his robust physique and an extra attack die in close combat to reflect his formidable strength, however he disdains the use of ranged weapons (not thrown) as cowardly and refuses to wear Plate Armour as it restricts his flowing movements and after all he is 'ard enough without it.

Dwarf [D] - extra BP (7) to reflect his thick set squat physique and a bonus for rolls to spot hidden features due to his familiarity with underground environments (he comes with a tool kit as part of his basic equipment now)

Elf [E] - already has the ability to cast spells as a special ability and is the only Hero aside from the Ranger to be able to use a Bow

Wizard [W] - already has the ability to cast spells and in my version has less restrictions around equipment, armour and weapons (still restricted but less so) - thinking about replacing the Wizard with a Monk and or Priest characters, Monk being focussed as Wizard on casting, Priest being Warrior and limited Caster?

For both of the spell casters, my current hero set has only three players and haven't chosen either the Wizard or the Elf so I am focussing on everything else at the moment and will review spell casting and Mind Points at a later date

Ranger [R] - Bonus to Agility tests (climb, fall, leap, jump and similar), access to Bow, Marksman - bonus to ranged attacks - extra die possibly?

Halfling / Rogue [H], one less BP to reflect reduced brawn, nimble ability allows faster movement, and access to Sling, bonus to Sneak actions

[TMU]

So late to the party, and sorta off-topic, but I myself started to play I think when I was about 12-14 years old. For me what made me interested in the game back then, was the fact I didn't actually play with anyone What I mean is that I just took the box and played with the models and just enjoyed without the actual gameplay You should try that too

[Daedalus]

2. Based on the decision in question 1, are there any simple mods / changes that are essential or at least recommended to include from the start, and if so what are they and what are the benefits of each?
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Updating this post to provide a list of the House Rules that I am currently using, some may stick, some may not. Reasons and details for each can be found in the thread below;...

#2. Heroes have fixed movement of 6 squares as standard but can declare a 'Runu' action at the start of their turn, rolling a single die and moving that many extra squares instead of making an action.

You could keep fixed movement outside of combat fixed as above and I think you'll have all the exploring paced as you like. For times when combat is entered, I'd suggest reverting back to rolling two red dice as combat is less coordinated and chaotic. The HQ movement dice provide a nice initiative system for mixing the order of first attacks. Bad rolls mean unexpected delay and late attacks for Heroes. Good rolls allow Heroes to exploit their first-turn advantage. Tension rises with this unknown movement, and that's good for more dramatic battles.

#3. If you start your turn adjacent to a Monster you cannot walk away until it has be)en killed, no strolling out of combat!

That seems harsh--has it caused some bad endings? If it has, you could ammend the rule by allowing a Hero or monster to leave if one or more other allies is also adjacent to the engaged opponent.

#4. Heroes retain all items and equipment, including potions, from quest to quest. Artefacts and magical items, including potions can't be sold and have no gold value, can resell any mundane equipment between quests at 50% original value.

The 50% selling rule others play with originates from the Elf and Barbarian Quest Packs, by the way.

#5. Throwing weapons are only lost on a roll of all but otherwise can be recovered by moving onto the target square or automatically when the area is searched.

I think this works fine with standard equipment as published, but combined with rule #8 that increases Hero weapon damage, the odds appear too slim, in my opinion. A 3-AD spear would on average be good for 216 throws, making it practically permanent. Two black shields should work better, I think. Making Heroes pay for replacement weapons every few to several Quests is good for game longevity as it will help keep the base monsters relevant longer.

Where can I get a copy of the US rules (is there more than one version?) and what else would I need to go with that, is there a different quest book or other supplements for the US version?

All of drathe's and Phoenix's localisation's and reformattings come highly recommended, as you must know why by now. Most changes are minor and made to correct errors from the originals. The biggest change I can think of was to swap out the Elven chainmail of the text for the Elven Bracers Artifact Card that the Mage of the Mirror Quest Booklet neglected to include.

Bradley Boruch and Stephen Baloban had posted decent copies of the original North American releases long ago. You can still find them at heroquest.no-ip.

Maximum attack dice (assuming mundane - non artefact weapons only - vanilla HQ) is 4 dice, same assumptions for defence gives us 6 dice. Now bearing in mind that you have a basic 3/6 chances of rolling a skull gives an average of two skulls in attack and a basic 2/6 chance* of rolling a shield gives us an average of two white shields in defence - which cancels out nicely except, when you think about it, would you want them to cancel out? To my mind I would expect attack to be stronger than defence (or more accurately damage stronger than protection) by a ratio of 3:2 or even 4:2, after all having Heroes strolling round a dungeon not even bothering to draw their swords whilst a rain of blows bounces off their armour isn't much fun - ok I'm exaggerating a little!
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Any thoughts (and please feel free to check my ratio calculations!)

Later, the attack limit is increased by monsters of the expansions. The Ogre Chieftain, Ogre Lord, High Mage, Orc Shaman, UK 1st ed. Swordsman? and Frozen Horror all have 5 Attack Dice. The Storm Master, Giant Wolf, and Ogre have 6 Attack Dice. Finally, a Polar Warbear can throw 8 Attack Dice against a single Hero. Those attacks are usually countered by 5 or 6 Defend Dice.

Since the Heroes have such a large number of Body Points, I think higher monster Attack Dice doesn't contradict your white-shield houserule. In fact, you get expansion playtesting experience of others for comparison. Also, Count Mohawk's Questimater has a lot of data available for further, upper-Attack-range values.

[Bareheaded Warrior]

October 9th, 2016 Legacy of the Orc Warlord

Quest Book Version: Anderas' quest difficulty system on Green (but without Graks spells and artifact)

Rulebook version: My latest house rules – see my signature for the link

Players; Rich (Evil Wizard), Thomas (Dwarf), Leon (Barbarian), Courtney (Ranger)

Playing Time: 120 minutes

After quite a break this was an epic return to HeroQuest. All three Heroes had some decent kit with two of the three Heroes having battled their way through the original Quest book to this point without dying (they did die on the first attempt at the Trial, but then made it though second time around) even the Ranger (Elf with a bow instead of spells) had managed to clock up three successful quests in a row however none of that accumulated kit helps at the start of this particular quest!

After escaping from their cell the party headed left and then down to the door lead by the Barbarian striding ahead, stretching out his legs from captivity. The Barbarian beat the Orc Warrior in the room with the fireplace armed only with his fists but took some damage in the process ending with only 2 Body Points having fought what must be the luckiest dice rolling Orc alive (at least up to the point that he was no longer alive). The Dwarf searched the room and found some gold.

The party then headed out of this room up the passageway to the room at the top left which as luck would have it was the room containing their equipment. The Ranger raced ahead of the others and burst into the room and attacked the lone Goblin Scout in a fit of madness and managed to get herself isolated and killed yet again although in her defence the dice were not in her favour!

The dynamic duo arrived shortly after and the unbloodied Dwarf finished off the pesky Goblin.
The Dwarf searched the room and restored his kit including Orcs’ Bane and returned the Barbarian’s kit and they divvied up the gold and potions from the Ranger before applying a healing salve each restoring the Dwarf to full Body Points and the Barbarian to a more rosy 5 Body Points .

I decided to have mercy on the player of the Ranger being knocked out of the game so early (and also the effect that would have on the rest of the parties chances) and left the Ranger’s main weapons and armour out of the returned loot and when the Barbarian continue the search he uncovered a hidden door behind the weapons rack that proved locked. This improvisation brought in my ‘Door Status’ rules earlier than I had intended – fortunately I had finished writing them a couple of days before – as I wasn’t intending to introduce them until I started writing my own quests.

The Dwarf used his tool kit to open the locked door and in the process freed another prisoner, a Ranger who joined the party with her basic equipment only - recovered from the dead Ranger – bow, long-knife, padded jack and healing salve. The Barbarian completed the searching of the equipment room by finding some more gold.

The troupe refreshed and fully equipped then took the long and winding road across the top of the board and down the right hand passageway dealing with the Orc and Goblin on the way with renewed confidence. The Ranger then took the lead and her and the Goblin outside the door of the central room exchanged arrows before the latter perished, leaving the Ranger free to open the door to the rack room ending the Heroes turn. The revealed Monsters in the room piled into the doorway attacking the Ranger as the Goblin Scout shot arrows from the back of the room.

With the Ranger in danger (nice!) and our two muscle bound heroes unable to get through the door to assist, the Ranger took the calculated risk of moving away from the combat to the door of the central room and allowing the Orc Warrior facing her to have a free attack which she survived although it did do some damage. The Dwarf and Barbarian then ploughed into the room killing the Orc and Troll respectively although the Barbarian was hit by the Troll’s Death Vomit special attack losing him a Body Points and coating him in the stomach contents of a Troll (including some Troll-stones). The Goblin Scout cowering in the corner managed to miss the Barbarian with an arrow before being picked off by the returning Ranger from the doorway of the room in a great (and rare) display of teamwork. A search of the room uncovered a Healing Potion for the Barbarian which he stowed for later and the Ranger took this opportunity to apply her healing salve having taken quite a beating in her last encounter.

The Heroes then geared up for the centre room with the Dwarf opening the door and taking the risky action of charging straight in and killing the first Orc, the Ranger took the option of moving into the door way and firing at the unmistakable silhouette of the large Troll, causing the loss of a single Body Point and the Barbarian, left behind searching the last room, managed to roll a poor 2 for movement and was left behind the Ranger unable to back up the now isolated Dwarf.

Rolling for the Trolls regeneration ability produced a Black Skull restoring the lost Body Points, thus began a promising Evil Wizard turn!

Closing in and striking one after the other with the remaining four Orc Warriors and the Troll, resulted in the Dwarf pressed with his back to the opening losing Body Points at an alarming rate although he was still standing by the end of the Evil Wizard’s turn.

Starting the Heroes turn the beleaguered Dwarf tried to make some room in the pack so the Barbarian could come to his assistance but he made a second and final tactical error by attacking the Troll rather than one of the Orc Warriors and left it standing with a single Body Point remaining. The Ranger desperately shot an arrow at the Troll in an attempt to finish it off but the shot merely glanced of its armoured hide. The Barbarian was unable to do anything except roar with frustration.

The next Evil Wizard turn proved decisive with a succession of Orcs killing off the Dwarf and then with the Ranger left vulnerable in the doorway the Troll stepped up and with a massive blow and a turn of bad luck for the Ranger managed to inflict a fatal 4 Body Points with a single hit reducing her to a corpse (again!).

With two Heroes down and the exit not even located yet things looked bad for the Barbarian. Pausing only to finish off the Troll (no Death Vomit on this occasion), loot the corpses of his fallen colleagues – picking up Orcs’ bane - and quaffing his healing potion, restoring him to his full 8 Body Points he set off out of the door at the back of the centre room and headed down the centre of the board feeling a little vulnerable.

A bad start to his encounter with the Troll around the corner, when his thrown axe missed the target and was lost in the darkness, ended well as he blocked all damage from the Trolls blow and his return stroke killed it instantly although a second vomit shower took the shine off the moment a little but those Troll-stones do add up (D6*10GC each batch).

Reaching the bottom passageway on the board our heroic Barbarian found himself caught between an Orc Warrior and two Goblin Scouts at the t-junction and whilst he made short work of each of the Monsters when he reached them, the movement and doubling back under fire, not helped by the strategically placed pit trap that he caught his leg in, meant that he now resembled a porcupine and with one of the arrows being poisoned he was left with a single Body Point remaining.

Kicking open the door to the exit room, he was relieved to see the staircase but dismayed as Grak, the Orc Warlord, and his pair of Orc Warriors, supported up by two more of those pesky Goblin Scouts were placed between him and his goal. Fully expecting to be joining his colleagues in the afterlife he braced himself in the doorway as the arrows glanced off his armour and the Orcs closed in.

In very tense battle that brought the other two players back to the table to cheer him on, the Barbarian used the attack dice re-rolls of Orcs Bane to great advantage in killing off both the Orcs Warriors and Grak, the Orc Warlord, without a single blow getting passed his armour – helped a little by one of the Goblin Scouts shooting an Orc Warrior in the back by accident and wounding him, sadly that arrow turned out not to be poisoned.

There then followed a tense few moments as on the Evil Wizard’s turn both Scouts shot arrows at the Barbarian in the doorway on his last remaining Body Points, both of which hit but were turned by the Barbarians mail hauberk. The Barbarian then strode into the room making short work of one of the Scouts. In a breath holding finish the last Scout shot at the Barbarian at almost point blank range and missed, generating a collective sigh of relief from the gathered spectators and the Barbarian slaughtered this last Monster before dragging his punctured body out of the Dungeon into the bright light of day!

In summary – a good Quest with an interesting twist at the start. My beefed up Monsters with special abilities and general combat changes make Quests sufficiently deadly so in future I will check x quest maps plans for any improvements on the originals but will not be adding any extra Monsters when indicated.

There was some very good luck in this quest, some of the final rolls, a relatively short journey without their kit and no Wandering Monsters drawn throughout the Quest (although the Barbarian didn’t search the last couple of rooms in all the excitement but that may have been a good thing!), but a fair share of bad luck also with both the Ranger deaths.

[TMU]

Great read, this. I love reading battle reports like this one

[DarakuTenshi]

When I was younger I used to use the white shield for the monsters block as well, I found that it made Zargon overpowered. As the DM you already have an advantage of a hoard of monsters, but increasing their defense is dangerous.

[mitchiemasha]

When I was younger I used to use the white shield for the monsters block as well, I found that it made Zargon overpowered. As the DM you already have an advantage of a hoard of monsters, but increasing their defense is dangerous.

Agreed, it's the 1 mod I frown upon. I feel it breaks theme and everything. An easier way to buff monsters but not too much, is to give them an enchanted shield/armour... "A black shield rolled in attack against a monster negates a skull" Or a waaagh skill. "Any skulls rolled in defence are hits against the attacker, even if the Orc is killed, attacker defends as normal." This, 'thematically' is the Orc sinking its self on your blade just to get a hit in, disregarding the need to defend. Make undead easily reanimated and must be finished off. Give goblins MAM... But never defend on white shields.

[knightkrawler]

I almost agree.
The only "monsters" that get to defend on white shields in HQHV are corrupted humans, like soldiers or townguards fighting for the "wrong" cause.

[j_dean80]

I almost agree.
The only "monsters" that get to defend on white shields in HQHV are corrupted humans, like soldiers or townguards fighting for the "wrong" cause.

Those examples, the white shields make logical sense.

[Jade]

When I was a child, I remember playing that monsters defend on white shields, as well. It made them very difficult, and the heroes really had to pool together and play carefully to survive. I also played with the house rule that if the Wizard rolled a black shield, he could recover a spent spell, which made him a lot more powerful (but in an unpredictable way) and helped to keep the heroes alive.

I'm not actually sure where these house rules originated from—I suspect the white shield rule was me misinterpreting the rules (I was only 9), and the black shield rule may have been an attempt to make up for how difficult the game was!