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A Case Against Leveling Systems

Discuss general topics relating to HeroQuest that don't fit well in the categories below.

Re: A Case Against Leveling Systems

Postby Josh » Monday August 20th, 2018 5:03pm

I am not a fan of leveling & think Hero's should have something else. Here are my ideas: Tokens made of cardboard or Pennies, nickels, dimes, quarters(real currancy) that we give to the players every two quests. These don't count as actions.

There are four types of Tokens: Combat, Search, Movement & Furniture. None of these count as actions, which should make turn sequences faster too.

#1 COMBAT TOKENS-(Color Red)-Each individual Token counts as either a +1 to Att, or a +1 to Deff that Heros can use on a sinlge roll in a Room or corridor at the start, but latter may upgrade for 500$ to TWO Tokens per room or coridor, then 1,000$ for THREE Tokens per room or corridor, etc.

#2 SEARCH TOKENS-(color Green), With one Token you may hear the speech/noise pattern of the lowest powered enemy in that next room without opening the door. The EWP will place that one enemy in the room giviving the Hero some idea of what type of lifeform lies beyond the door(undead Skeleton or Goblin). Two Tokens will describe ONE of the next lowest race in that room( Orc or Zombie) but no doors or treasure/furniture can be "heard."
A SEARCH TOKEN can also reveal where a single Trap or Secret Door is once the Hero enters, but must still waste their turn on disarming it.

#3 MOVE TOKENS-(blue) Adds +3 to movement per Token. Only one Token per round.

#4 FURNITURE TOKENS?-(yellow) To climb up on furniture or interact with it in some way?

You could put a cap on the use of any of this at 5, 8 or 10 times per room/corridor. Most Hero's will waste them on COMBAT anyway
Last edited by Josh on Thursday December 6th, 2018 5:42am, edited 7 times in total.
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Re: A Case Against Leveling Systems

Postby Tott » Tuesday August 21st, 2018 4:18am

I'm for leveling systems in general but i think you have to be careful with a game like HQ because its simplicity is one of its main features. i do think you need it though, you have to progress the story, you have to increase the challenge in any game or it evetually gets stale. i also think players need something to work towards as a soft reward as well as the hard reward of completeing a quest.
my idea would be to give each character 6 skill slots, there would be about half a dozen skill types: Strength, combat, finesse, cunning, defense, magic and a Hero skill slot.
The barabarian would have 3 strength skill slots, 2 combat skill slots and a hero, the other heroes different combinations.
each hero gains one skill point per succefully completed quest and each skill costs a different numbr of skill points
Im generally against flat out adding 1 extra dice/body point skills UNLESS a certain criteria is met, for instance a 3 point strength skill could be: Charge - if you move at least 6 spaces this turn you may add one combat dice to your next attack.
however, most of my skills would be aimed a modifiying dice or providing passive buffs. e.g. a 3 point defence skill could be: Shield wall - any friendly character adjacent to you may change up to 1 skull to a white shield when defending.

I think a skill system like this combinied with weapon upgrades would give a gradual leveling curve that would stop heros getting too powerful too quickly.
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Re: A Case Against Leveling Systems

Postby j_dean80 » Tuesday August 21st, 2018 6:25am

Or keep HQ vanilla and kill off Heroes every so often to keep them from overpowered.
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Re: A Case Against Leveling Systems

Postby knightkrawler » Tuesday August 21st, 2018 7:29am

...and yet, it depends on your group when and if they are bored.
If they can exchange heroes, how often they individually die, how often they fail as a group, how ... when... if...
As an EWP, you have to play along to a certain extent. Do you wanna make quests more and more difficult? Then you have to let heroes progress and maybe throw them a little something. Do you wanna play various quests of the same difficulty level? Then kill the heroes off more often.

Meaning, every Evil Wizard Player should offer measurements as they see fit. Planning this out ahead makes less sense than we all want it to be true as we really have to cater to our groups' needs and wants.
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Re: A Case Against Leveling Systems

Postby torilen » Tuesday August 21st, 2018 8:57am

Reading through the latest bout of comments...I'm not sure if I have anything to say specifically
TOWARD any of those, but some "new" thoughts come to mind.

1 - As far as leveling to make the heroes more powerful? Pertaining to HQ itself, I think I might tend to
agree with some others that HQ is unique in its simplicity. There are a ton of homebrew quests here...I
know I've made a few myself...and while that adds a lot to the game, I don't know if many of them really
up the ante of the game. It is more that they simply add more paths for the heroes to follow at their various
power levels (or as Anderas terms it, and I love the term, x-die equipment).

2 - That said, perhaps an idea is to allow leveling to let the heroes do MORE. Give the Wizard more spells.
Not necessarily more powerful spells, and not necessarily more offensive or defensive spells. If you go through
my homebrew spell list, there are quite a few that are there simply to add character and flavor. The Evil Wizard,
or the group as a whole, would work to find ways for the Wizard or Elf to use these spells to allow them to have
fun building their character. Would this be possible for the other characters. The dwarf can pick locks, disable
traps...as someone else said, build ballista...build traps and siege engines. Between quests...blacksmithing
and forging new equipment.

3 - Last thought for my tired brain this morning - it is SUCH A SHAME that those colored dice are not more
readily available, even customizable (is that a word?). Sure, there are places to custom order dice, but
they get expensive. It could be a ton of fun to move a method of leveling into using the specialized
combat dice. Instead of simply getting more and more powerful weapons and more attacks, maybe the
barbarian and dwarf specialize in their weapons and become more deadly, and so can roll the dice that
allow for the possibility of 2 or 3 skulls with one roll. It seems more powerful...but I am not really sure.
You're not adding more dice and more skulls...are you? I'm not doing the math right now...sorry.


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Re: A Case Against Leveling Systems

Postby Tott » Wednesday August 22nd, 2018 8:25am

only thing id say against deliberatly killing off heroes, if someone has been playing a hero for a long time, got decent gear on them etc, then killing that hero can often be a massive disensentive for that player to continue to play. people become attached to their characters! :(
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Re: A Case Against Leveling Systems

Postby torilen » Wednesday August 22nd, 2018 9:12am

I would go more with just giving great harm and make them buy more healing potions.
Killing characters off just to keep them from getting powerful only causes the issue
of having to "find and recruit" new characters and having the party get used to them
and trust them. (I mean, how do the players know the new character is not a spy?)

But hey, characters die. Bad rolls, bad choices, doing stupid things...it happens. I wouldn't
worry so much about characters dying in HQ. I can't imagine there would be THAT much
attachment, and it doesn't usually take 20-30 minutes to make a new one, as it might
with D&D or other full rpg.


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Re: A Case Against Leveling Systems

Postby mitchiemasha » Wednesday August 22nd, 2018 4:03pm

Killing heroes isn't as big issue if you have a simple Character Creation. The last group i was in, each player had a few Heroes. They made different ones for different occasions, depending on who had turned up that day. They enjoyed the process of creating new characters and seeing how they'd play. Discussing ideas and themeing new mechanics was often the start of the night.

We always believe the story has to follow the same 4 Heroes... But different members can quite easily come and go. I was impressed by the different stories the players made up for this.


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Re: A Case Against Leveling Systems

Postby Anderas » Thursday August 23rd, 2018 4:02pm

That's a group thing again. Know your heroes.

Do you have RPG people who would get out of the game with their character?
Your group mitchie looks perfect for having someone dying sometimes. Your character generation system is a good incentive to make such a player group.

Sotiris did something similar. Each character was unique, so if someone died you couldn't replace that one, you had to choose a different one. That was nice for trying things, too. But it was not possible in his system to make your own hero.


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Re: A Case Against Leveling Systems

Postby Count Mohawk » Thursday August 23rd, 2018 10:18pm

torilen wrote:3 - Last thought for my tired brain this morning - it is SUCH A SHAME that those colored dice are not more
readily available, even customizable (is that a word?).


I agree wholeheartedly - which is why I decided to make some "cheap Chinese knockoff" colored dice by taking ordinary, garden-variety 10-cents-per-each d6es and applying stickers to their faces. Presto-change-o, a whole bucket of colored dice!
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Since I print these things on Avery sticker paper, I can make any distribution of faces I please. For example, you may notice one of the dice on the left has a "wild face" on it (skull, shield AND walrus all at once).
Image
Here's a couple of uncut sheets of die faces I made this week, in preparation for some potential Questing on the weekend. Many of these distributions are unique to me; you won't find them on spielwarensaloon! (yet)

Anyway, if someone wants to try their hand at this sort of thing, I'm willing to share the Word document I used to make it.


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