A Case Against Leveling Systems

[TMU]

But I must say that I still think killing Morcar isn't good idea. It gives that epic feeling on the quests, unleast for me.

[burglekutt]

I was thinking that instead of Leveling, a hero gains a Combat Card that gives him a +1Att for A SINGLE SWING, same for +1Deff.
This has to be one of the slowest ways to keep the player excited to get their 6th +1Att Card or their 8th +1 Deff Card which they play before Attacking or Defending and only one Card usable PER ROOM at first, then two way latter on &possibly at a major cost.
Only give them one Card per 4or5 quests? or make the Cards perchasable at maybe:
1st Card $50
2nd Card $100
3rd Card $150
4th Card $200
Etc, & the prices compound the more you buy before a quest($300 for three Cards, $500 for four Cards).

Of course throw in Skill Cards for a lesser price that aren't to important like Move through an enemy, +2 Move, Change Weapons, Hold door shut, flip table over, jump two squares, throw Wizard over Pit Trap lol jk, but not:) etc.

Sounds like alot of cards but you can compact several feats/skills on to one card to give the player options & I'm not saying they can't mark their amount of Att&Deff Cards on a piece of paper instead.
You're basically giving the hero almost nothing, but they have these Cards in front of them which helps them feel more secure.

[Anderas]

What a great Necromancy!

After a very long time I came to the conclusion that I want somewhat overpriced Skill Cards. After all, that's the only thing a hero loses when he dies: All the rest will be given back by his group to the "next" hero.

I want cards that are somewhat situational, and that are mostly usable with multi BP monsters as I do my difficulty ramp up through the BP. If everybody has only one or two, maybe three of those Skill Cards, it doesn't make that hard difference.

Also, after deep calculating single fights and after long hours using Mohawks Questimator for entire quests, I came to the conclusion that the sum of Hero BP and MP can max out at something around 14 and it would be quite beneficial for the game.

[knightkrawler]

What a great Necromancy!

After a very long time I came to the conclusion that I want somewhat overpriced Skill Cards. After all, that's the only thing a hero loses when he dies: All the rest will be given back by his group to the "next" hero.

I want cards that are somewhat situational, and that are mostly usable with multi BP monsters as I do my difficulty ramp up through the BP. If everybody has only one or two, maybe three of those Skill Cards, it doesn't make that hard difference.

Also, after deep calculating single fights and after long hours using Mohawks Questimator for entire quests, I came to the conclusion that the sum of Hero BP and MP can max out at something around 14 and it would be quite beneficial for the game.

My new HQ - Heroes & Villains will not have 12 heroes in four classes to choose from, but the four originals, almost in their original state. And then, with hard money, heroes can specify by buying skills that might sometimes build up on each other. Like, you can only buy skill B if you already have skill A. That way the Warrior can choose to become a knight or a barbarian or something in between or whatever, also crossing over into some skills for the Sojourner/Dwarf or the Adept/Elf. Just an example.

I find there is no need for creating and creating and creating another hero. Yes, there can be a hero catered to anyone and it'f fun to create them, but why not let players choose what they want to become themselves if they survive long enough?

[Goblin-King]

My new HQ - Heroes & Villains will not have 12 heroes in four classes to choose from, but the four originals, almost in their original state. And then, with hard money, heroes can specify by buying skills that might sometimes build up on each other. Like, you can only buy skill B if you already have skill A. That way the Warrior can choose to become a knight or a barbarian or something in between or whatever, also crossing over into some skills for the Sojourner/Dwarf or the Adept/Elf. Just an example.

I find there is no need for creating and creating and creating another hero. Yes, there can be a hero catered to anyone and it'f fun to create them, but why not let players choose what they want to become themselves if they survive long enough?

I've always had a soft spot for this sort of character creation/progression system.
You could in principle take it a step further an have a hero start out as a "blank" dude. His first couple of skills would go into making him "just" a standard hero.
The drawback is the first couple of levels are boring since everyone start out as a peasant. The good thing is you really get the feel of turning this nobody into MY guy.

[knightkrawler]

My new HQ - Heroes & Villains will not have 12 heroes in four classes to choose from, but the four originals, almost in their original state. And then, with hard money, heroes can specify by buying skills that might sometimes build up on each other. Like, you can only buy skill B if you already have skill A. That way the Warrior can choose to become a knight or a barbarian or something in between or whatever, also crossing over into some skills for the Sojourner/Dwarf or the Adept/Elf. Just an example.

I find there is no need for creating and creating and creating another hero. Yes, there can be a hero catered to anyone and it'f fun to create them, but why not let players choose what they want to become themselves if they survive long enough?

I've always had a soft spot for this sort of character creation/progression system.
You could in principle take it a step further an have a hero start out as a "blank" dude. His first couple of skills would go into making him "just" a standard hero.
The drawback is the first couple of levels are boring since everyone start out as a peasant. The good thing is you really get the feel of turning this nobody into MY guy.

That is one brilliant idea. I'll probably offer a new hero creation kit to cater to that, based on that 17-point-system someone came up years ago.

But there's more. I could offer the Warrior to buy spells. It just will be very expensive and he can't wear metal (which is an attribute icon in my system, so you can refer to that little icon on your cards if you are wearing metal or not and how much) which has him max out at 3 attack dice.
I could offer to let the Wizard buy a battle-axe, but every time he casts a spell, he loses 1 body or mind point as long as he carries it.
Things like those.

[Anderas]

The difficulty is to prevent that one best combo that everyone wants. Either through VERY careful crafting of the card texts or through updates during the campaign.

[cornixt]

I have a similar system, but each starting character has a particular maxing out state. The warrior will never be great at magic and the wizard will never be great at fighting, but both can learn each others skills to some extent.

[knightkrawler]

The difficulty is to prevent that one best combo that everyone wants. Either through VERY careful crafting of the card texts or through updates during the campaign.

Well, every skill is going to be there once. Maybe twice.
But you're right, anyhow. It could be a problem. Mutual exclusivity and some stackables are key.

I think I'll give each skill a cost for every hero.
Like a spell-learning skill will be VERY expensive for the Warrior, but less for the Wizard and so on.

[Goblin-King]

The difficulty is to prevent that one best combo that everyone wants. Either through VERY careful crafting of the card texts or through updates during the campaign.

In a system like this there will per definition always be a setup that is best.
The important thing is not to accidentally allow overpowered/gamebreaking combos.