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Re: What order should the quest packs be played?

PostPosted: Saturday February 9th, 2019 4:20am
by Anderas
Yes you're right. Wizards of Zargon is a fan translation from Europe to NA System.

Re: What order should the quest packs be played?

PostPosted: Saturday February 9th, 2019 11:15am
by Maurice76
wallydubbs wrote:There's been a bit of a debate regarding Keller's Keep and Return of the Witch Lord.


I fail to see why this is even an issue. When the Witch Lord is defeated in the expansion carrying his name, the epilogue specifically mentions that the Emperor is throwing a banquet at the palace for the Heroes to celebrate their victory over such an evil opponent. Throwing a banquet at the palace is pretty much impossible when he's still holed up in the depths of Kellar's Keep (side note: it's Kellar's, not Keller's). For me, there's no ambiguity as to the order between Kellar's Keep and Return of the Witch Lord as a result.

Re: What order should the quest packs be played?

PostPosted: Saturday February 9th, 2019 11:26am
by Goblin-King
Agreed!

Also there's some storytelling tricks going on. When the Witch Lord is first defeated in the game system, why wouldn't the heroes rush to his stronghold and finish him off before he regains power?
Because the Emperor needs your help in Kellar's Keep. That side mission is the reason the Witch Lord has had time enough to regain strength and rebuild his army of the dead.

Re: What order should the quest packs be played?

PostPosted: Saturday February 9th, 2019 2:34pm
by lestodante
The short stories written behind the boxes of the 2 questpacks may create confusion because they swap events on each others.
Anyway, I hope this may offer a valid solution:

Kellar's Keep was UK released in October 1989.
Return of the Witch Lord was UK released in February 1990.
Kellar's Keep had a second UK release in May 1990.

The differences beetween the 1st and the 2nd releasese are minimum, they corrected the pic on the back of the box (previously showing a demo sheet of tiles) and corrected the 9-adult to 10-adult, like on the main game box, plus some fixing on few quests.

Re: What order should the quest packs be played?

PostPosted: Monday February 11th, 2019 7:47am
by wallydubbs
Jalapenotrellis wrote:I didn't know there was a Wizards of Zargon. I thought there was only a Wizards of Morcar game. I was told Against the Ogre Horde and Wizards of Morcar were Europe only, which makes rules odd when you get to them playing the NA systems. I don't have experience playing that far yet...can't wait though.

Officially, no, there is no Wizards of Zargon as this expansion only came out in Europe. However the names for Morcar and Zargon are interchangeable.
There appears to have been a project years ago on this website to reformat Wizards of Morcar and Against the Ogre Horde and make them playable in North America (I'm pretty sure they would have done the same with Frozen Horror and Mage of the Mirror for Europe)... not that the differences between Europe and American versions are anything major. They're practically the same thing and can still count as "official quests."

Maurice76 wrote:
wallydubbs wrote:There's been a bit of a debate regarding Keller's Keep and Return of the Witch Lord.


I fail to see why this is even an issue. When the Witch Lord is defeated in the expansion carrying his name, the epilogue specifically mentions that the Emperor is throwing a banquet at the palace for the Heroes to celebrate their victory over such an evil opponent. Throwing a banquet at the palace is pretty much impossible when he's still holed up in the depths of Kellar's Keep (side note: it's Kellar's, not Keller's). For me, there's no ambiguity as to the order between Kellar's Keep and Return of the Witch Lord as a result.


That's fair enough, I don't think there should've been an issue either, yet there were a few posts earlier that vouched for RotWL going first. I suppose that's their right if one wishes to play that way. Like you, I feel aspirations of continuity should win out.
I brought it up mainly to Express one way of making RotWL more complicated, as it was stated that the undead are way too easy. Keller's Keep was a bit more difficult.

Re: What order should the quest packs be played?

PostPosted: Tuesday February 12th, 2019 8:28am
by j_dean80
This is the order I see fit:

The Gathering Storm (Game System)
Kellar's Keep (with added Quest 11 from WoM)
Return of the Witch Lord
The Dark Company
Against the Ogre Horde (with added conclusion)
The Mage of the Mirror (with added Quest 6b from WoM)
Summons of the Wizards' Council (remake of WoM)
The Frozen Horror

Re: What order should the quest packs be played?

PostPosted: Tuesday February 12th, 2019 9:53am
by Spookyhappyfun
My current play order:

The Gathering Storm (slightly re-ordered with Plague of Zombies added in)
Kellar's Keep (with added Quest 11 from WoM)
Return of the Witch Lord
The Champion's Trial
Elixir of Beauty
Brigands Beware
The Halls of Durrag-Dol
Inn of Chaos
The Sword of Zalmir
The Eye of Chaos
Against the Ogre Horde
The Mage of the Mirror (with added Quest 6b from WoM)
Summons of the Wizards' Council (remake of WoM)
The Frozen Horror
The Dark Company
Champion of the Empire

I've made and am still working on edits to these to work with my own collection (including additional heroes, monsters, cards, leveling up, etc.) and also to make the story flow a little better. You can find my edited version of the booklets in my signature. Bear in mind that they're all still works in progress (and mostly just the regular booklets with lots of PDF notes and re-ordered pages, so not very pretty).

Re: What order should the quest packs be played?

PostPosted: Friday February 22nd, 2019 7:50am
by Scipio
Relevant question!

We're planning a couple of HQ-days this weekend, and I want to run Wizards of Morcar or Against the Ogre Horde -not quite decided yet, but not really important. We've never played either.
I assume these are a bit too harsh for fresh heroes, but what's a good "upgrade pack"? What should I give the heroes to give them a good starting point? 500 gold each and all the artifacts?

Re: What order should the quest packs be played?

PostPosted: Friday February 22nd, 2019 10:24am
by Pancho
Scipio wrote:Relevant question!

We're planning a couple of HQ-days this weekend, and I want to run Wizards of Morcar or Against the Ogre Horde -not quite decided yet, but not really important. We've never played either.
I assume these are a bit too harsh for fresh heroes, but what's a good "upgrade pack"? What should I give the heroes to give them a good starting point? 500 gold each and all the artifacts?

I like both of the expansions that you mentioned, but marginally prefer Against the Ogre Horde. WOM is only 5 quests, whilst Ogres is 8, so bear that in mind if you only have a couple of sessions available to you.
Both of these will be pretty much impossible for fresh Heroes. Assuming that the players have had experience of Heroquest before, they might be able to survive if you give them all 5 artefacts from the base game (EU), plus 500 gold for equipment if going up against the Ogre Horde, plus maybe a bit more if confronting The Wizards of Morcar, as they will also need to buy Men-at-Arms.
If you go with Ogres, also look out for a dodgy falling block trap in the Outer Caves quest (in the room with the fimir), as many players believe it to be game-breaking (possibly the result of not being properly play tested).

Edit; If I remember correctly the EU version of Ogres did not allow regeneration of BP between quests but gave each hero 4 healing potions at the start of the adventure. I would ditch that rule and let them recover health as normal, but still give them the healing potions. They're going to need them.

Re: What order should the quest packs be played?

PostPosted: Friday February 22nd, 2019 10:25am
by wallydubbs
The heroes will have a bit of trouble if they're not maxed out already. Hopefully you're not starting them with base stats.
500 gold will give them enough to buy chainmail. Will you be letting them stop at the Armory during the quests?
They may get by the first quest, but they'll struggle later on.
As Zargon (or Morcar), if you catch them struggling, you can always add extra weapons and armor on weapons racks during the quests to give the heroes an upgrade if needed.