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wallydubbs wrote:So I made a read through all the quest packs to find specific location names that should be found on a map for HeroQuest.
The new HeroQuest has drifted ever further from Games Workshop's ideals for Warhammer that it calls into question whether we can use the Old World Map. I'll give credence that you need to base it off something. But many of the names have changed and the only visual map we have to go on for the new HeroQuest comes from the Path of the Wandering Monk for the World's End Tournament. This doesn't look anything like the Old World Map unless it's being held upside down... In fact, if I was to link this to the Old World Map I'd say it looks like it would be East of the World's End Mountains.
Anyway, here's a list of places that should be found on a HeroQuest Risk map:
Northern Dread Wastes Zargon fled to this place after his first defeat
The Realm goes without saying this is the Empire
Borderlands I believe this is where the orcs are supposed to obide.
Dark Mountains this was included in your map
Darkfire Crag this is a specific area among the Dark Mountains, perhaps not large enough to be labeled.
Bastion of Dread I think this is just outpost or lair for the Dread forces.
Barak Tor Barrow of the Witch Lord, it's labed on the map.
World's End Mountains the mountain chain on the Eastern end of the map. However the chain is so large it couldn't possibly be a territory for a Risk game.
Fountain of Leben the Spirit Blade was cooled in this Elven Fountain, probably too small to put on a map
Darkfire Pass formally Black Fire Pass, a break in the Dark Mountains that the King's army met Zargon's forces
Kaba Karn also found on the map, this place seems to be interchangeable with Keller's Keep, or is there something I'm not understanding about the distinction?
Keller's Keep also features specific areas within such as Grin's Crag, Halls of Belorn, the Great Gate, Warrior Halls and the Great Citadel.
Turekk Tor location of Melar's Maze, there's a whole tower there
Prophecy of Telor also mentions the following areas: Temple of Gilgarreth, Telor's Tomb, Archives at Arborenis, Arena of Misildia, an Elven City known as Haven of Lights and Gurrok Cairn.
The Great Hall and Grand Palace seem to be areas of the Realm where the heroes are celebrated for their victory.
Spirit Queen's Torment mentions Wyvern's Keep, Bleak Swamp Fortress, Drowned Temple, and the Towers of the Elements. It also briefly speaks of the great orc kingdoms.
Kalos this would be an interesting one to locate as it seems to be the Witch Lord's prominent city of the dead
Alvakryn seems to be the only specific place mentioned in Against the Ogre Hoard.
Northland's and Ice Mountain should definitely be a territory on the map
Frozen Horror also notes the Cyberian Range, Xanon Pass and the Frozen Catacombs
Elthorn oddly enough isn't named in Mage of the Mirror and is only referred to as the Elven Kingdom. The only location we're referenced with in MotM is Gliness Fen, which is said to be located in the Marshes, and Silvermane's Lair, which I take is the inner sanctum.
Crypt of Perpetual Darkness only mentions the Marsh of Sorrows and the Lost Mine of Tyjit Shakespeare, but Shaleaxe is said to be a character of lore, there just a mine named after him.
Last, but not least there's Delthrak, which could be a Territory as it seems to encompass smaller areas such as Durlan's Outpost, Vaults of Kadum-Thiah, and the Caverns of Glimmering Skulls. It also makes reference to the Jeweled Kingdoms, which can be anyone's guess
Just saying, some of these broader areas should be on the map too if considered territories.


Spookyhappyfun wrote:My locations so far:
Elf Quest - Mage of the Mirror - Athel Loren
Barbarian Quest - The Frozen Horror - A Growl of Thunder clearly places the Barbarian's tribe in Norsca, even though it probably wasn't meant to be the Warhammer world map. But I don't like that quest so I'm leaving it out of my campaign. For me, the Barbarian's homeland is in the Northern Wastes, north of Kislev before you reach Troll Country. Ice Mountain is located within the Cyberian Range, where the World's Edge Mountains meet the Goromadny Mountains. Xanon Pass branches off of High Pass, leading north into the Cyberian Range
Cael Darkhollow wrote:The Elven Kingdom is ruled by Queen Terrellia and her 5 year old daughter (don't elves age drastically different? she could be decades old and still be a youth) has been kidnapped, and it is your mission to rescue her. The queens sister Archmage Sinestra has issued a ransom note demanding her sister abdicate the throne. Sinestra's stronghold location was not mentioned but we can assume if she means to rule we are still in the Elven Kingdom or at least nearby. The quest book states that should Sinestra rule the safety of the Empire is also at stake. It also implies that the Empire and Elves are allies against Zargon and the forces of Chaos. That would mean the Elf Realm has significant dealings or influence with the Empire and is close geographically.
The first quest is to recover a stolen artifact in a small fortress along the southern border of the Empire. As the southern edge of the Empire is the Black mountains home to Goblins, monsters as well as dwarf strongholds it could be there in the Black mtns or it could be farther south in the Warhammer region known as the Border Princes. Perhaps the people of the Empire sees the mountains as the border, forgetting or overlooking the other races' territorial claims in those mountains.
the second rescue mission is south of the Elven Kingdom. The third another rescue from a mine not given locale description.
The 4th mission is an alchemists laboratory on the western border of the elven lands. the 5th another rescue to the south of elven lands at a castle.
We finally learn Sinestra's stronghold location is within the marshes of Gliness Fen. Are we in the elven Kingdom? Nearby?
What kingdom would that be?
In Warhammer the wood elves have the realm of Athel Loren, a vast woodland within the borders of the Kingdom of Bretonnia (but autonomous) across the Grey mountains from the Empire.
But the elven king and queen are Orion and Ariel, who are worshipped as living avatars of the deities Kurnous and Isha.
Another enclave of wood elves exists inside the borders of the Empire itself, the Laurelorn Forest. Did the HeroQuest quest pack occur there in that independent elven realm not ruled by Bretonnia, the Empire or the elf King and Queen of Athel Loren?
Little is written about the elves living in the northeastern Laurelorn forest of the Empire, beyond WFRP stating they repel all intruders and are the source of elvish player characters in the Empire. Is the Queen Terrellia of HQ their ruler? This would put the rescues to the south and west in the Grey mountains perhaps. Suitable locations and the likely sites of other HeroQuest quests.
Final possibilities would be the High Elf merchant colony at Marienburg (independent merchant city state between Bretonnia and the Empire, and surrounded by marshes, with a Netherlands lowland real World equivilant,) or even the Elven Kingdoms of Ulthuan on their island in the western sea, ruled by the Phoenix King. Both not very likely as High elves do not look like wood elves in both appearance and equipment and whose rulers are differently named.
Laurelorn inside the Empire is the best fit for the HQ Elf Quest Pack "Elven Kingdom."
All of these Old World elves of course are Games Workshop's imitations of Tolkien's elves of the 3rd age of Middle Earth: the forests of Loren=Lorien, Celeborn and Galadriel=Orion and Ariel, the Laurelorn Forest=Greenwood/Mirkwood, High elf colony at Marianburg=the sea elves of the Grey Havens, the High Elvish home isles of Ulthuan=Eldamar, and the isle of the dead at the center of the inner sea of Ulthuan=Tol Eressëa the isle at the center of the bay in Eldamar. The only 3rd age elven location not represented in the GW Old World is Rivendell.
The Barbarian homelands of the North has both Old World and literary equivalents as well. From the questbook, Xanon Pass, the only pass in the Cyberian Range leads to Ice Mountain, the locale of the quests. The barbarian hales from the Northlands. This range, pass and mountain are not named on the maps of the Old World.
Another HeroQuest map found in The Tyrants Tomb novel, gives more "Northlands" locales not named on any Warhammer map for another homecoming to Norscan forests by the barbarian character in HQ, (and a quest there, A Growl of Thunder) but this Northlands map is framed to the east by the Worlds Edge Mountains, to the north by the Northern Chaos Wastes, and to the south by the Sea of Claws; large geographic features indeed found on most Warhammer old world maps. The names of the towns, hamlets and villages listed that are not repeated in Warhammer on WH maps are immaterial. Likewise how many unnamed ranges or peaks are there, only named perhaps by the locals who live near?There are no detailed maps of the far north in any Games Workshop product, besides such barbarian villages are likely beneath the notice of scholarly cartographers from the Empire.
A few locales of interest on the map in the Tyrants Tomb novel are Dargvellig Voy (the isles of the Fimir), Ymirheim, the Norscan Steppes, and Le Massif Des Geants. No mountain ranges or peaks are mapped except for the Worlds Edge Mountains, so the exact location of Xanon Pass, the Cyberian range, the Barbarian's home village and the peak named Ice Mountain, lair of the Frozen Horror remain unknown.
A great many unnamed ranges and mountains are shown on many maps of Norsca (also called the Northlands) in the various Chaos army books and boxed set of Warhammer. Its location across the Sea of Claws confirms the HQ Barbarian Quest Pack's general location in the Old World. The Northlands are described as frigid wastes with a few settlements and roving barbarian tribes. Nothing in either quest pack contradicts anything in Warhammer or the Old World setting. New monsters such as polar warbears don't conflict either, Warhammer materials routinely generated new monsters often with each new army book or suppliment including gnoblars, Rhinoxen etc. often not found outside a single source book, or others mentioned a few times then never heard from again such as fimir and zoats.
Les Edwards art for the barbarian character in HQ is directly inspired by Frank Frazettas art depicting Conan the Barbarian, a Robert E Howard literary character. They are the same or at least twin brothers, or at a minimum certainly of the same race of northerner barbarians. Conans homeland to the north of the civilized nations is named Cimmeria, too similar to the Cyberian range not to notice. Perhaps Siberia in the real world is the influence, although Russia is represented by the Kislev nation to the east and south. Ymir is a god of the north in Howard's Hyboria tales of Conan, the Ymirheim found on the HQ map would be literally translated as Ymir's home. The massif des geants would be translated the mountain stronghold of giants, and a similar name to the Masif Orcal a mountain stronghold located farther south in the old world. Perhaps the Maddif des Geants was inspired by Tolkien's Helcaraxë, the grinding ice also known as the icy wastes mentioned in the Silmarillion.
Cael Darkhollow wrote:Sure it can be set anywhere there are elves (not necessarily wood elves even, although the figures are in wood elf style so naturally we make that assumption) because the text of the quest book never clearly states where the elf kingdom is. But it is much more satisfying to tie in to known populations of WH elves in the texts rather than saying basically "it could be anywhere there are elves, who are we to decide what they call a kingdom?"
Athel Loren as the best known main wood elf WH population was long assumed by some HQ players to be the locale and obviously clearly differs in the King and Queens names causing some to view HQ elf quest as an alternate timeline or world diverging from the Old World setting.
but I don't think even that idea conflicts necessarily as Orion and Ariel could be the high king and queen of the elves ruling several smaller kingdoms each with their own local rulers. No mention of that possibility exists however in wood elf lore text, instead the smaller groups inside Athel Loren are called clans, so Athel Loren seems unlikely as the HQ locale because we know the queens name of the "elf kingdom" is Terrellia.
In the wood elf text we read half a page about a lost kindred:
"their entire kindred set out on a long trek over the Grey Mountains and beyond into the uttermost east. Here they wandered through a forested wilderness barely inhabited by tribes of men, yet already infested with orcs. Though warhawk riders and scouts tried to follow to keep contact, they finally lost track of them as winter snows covered the forests. The kindred of the Wythel trees were never seen again.
Since that time rumors of an enclave of wood elves hidden deep in the forests east of the Grey Mountains have reached Athel Loren. Attempts have been made to contact them and a few scouts claim to have met fellow scouts of the Lost Kindred. There seems to be no reason to doubt their word, but nevertheless almost everything about the Lost Kindred remains a mystery in Athel Loren though their survival seems certain." page 13, Wood Elves army book 4th edition.
Sounds like the elves of Laurelorn forest in the early Empire region pre-Sigmar to me, based on location to the east over the Grey Mountains but could possibly be yet another group of elves entirely.
In Warhammer Fantasy Role Play we read about the wood elves:
"The elves had time to recover and establish themselves in several small colonies around the central Old World. The most important were the kingdoms of the Laurelorn and Loren Forests, which together comprise more than 80% of the Elf population in the Old World.
These two kingdoms became the focus for elvish survival, with all the other clans and tribes looking to them for leadership."
Well then, in Warhammer, we have two main wood elf kingdoms and it is stated all other clans and tribes bow to their rulers. Athel Loren's rulers are named, so by default the other kingdom of the two whose rulers are not named is by far the best WH candidate for Terrellia's Elf Kingdom in the HQ elf quest book.
In Warhammer Fantasy Role Play we read about the wood elves of Laurelorn ensconced in the province of Nordland :
"The Elves of Laurelorn are isolationist, wanting to be left alone in the beautiful woods they have come to call home. Unlike men, who seek to tame the lands in which they live, the elves of Laurelorn regard the forest and its land as a living thing, something over which they feel protective. They do, however, recognize that mankind provides the bulwark of the defence of their lands against Greenskins and Chaos, so they try to not antagonize the surrounding realms of the Empire, unless they try to establish dominion over Laurelorn itself.
Elf adventurers in the Empire are almost always from Laurelorn."
page 9, Sigmars Heirs WHFRP
"Beyond the Demst [river] is the core of Laurelorn, a place Nordlanders call "the witches Wood" out of their superstitious fear of the Elf Queen. imperials are forbidden to cross into it on pain of death: even the Elector Counts of Nordland are under this ban. What lies within the Witch's Wood is unknown: some have speculated that the elves have no capital, living a nomadic life under the trees. Old books, on the other hand, mention a nameless city of glass deep in its heart, a place that glows with its own light. Whatever the truth, it is certain that neither creatures of Chaos nor Greenskins last long once they enter the Laurelorn, for the elves defend their home ferociously against all comers." page 64 ,Sigmars Heirs WHFRP
Now we know that Laurelorn is ruled by a Queen, and I think we can reasonably assume her name is Terrellia.
A perfect set up for the quest book narrative.
Mentor sends the HQ elf hero because the queen herself secretly informed him of the kidnapping and ransom.
Only the HQs elf hero's inclusion permitted entry into the forbidden kingdom (likely his/her homeland based on the most elf adventurers in the Empire are from Laurelorn bit)
edit: the back of the quest box confirms the elf homeland: "your homeland is in turmoil."
but he/she still had to prove himself/herself in solo quests before his/her companions could join him/her to rescue the Elf Princess Millandriell.
You guys can do whatever you want;
but if you want to put The Mage of The Mirror HQ quests in the best possible Warhammer location based on text evidence, I think you would be forced to agree it is the elf Kingdom of Laurelorn, inside the Empire and east of the Grey Mountains.
Cael Darkhollow wrote:There are more tantalizing clues:
per back of the elf quest pack:
"Greetings bravest of all elves! The Queen of the Elven Kingdom anxiously awaits your return. Your homeland is in turmoil as the Queen's evil sister Sinestra the Archmage, has joined forces with Zargon. Sinestra has kidnapped the Queens daughter Millandriell and hidden her in a dark and mysterious mirror maze.
Fearless Elf, you have been chosen to rescue the fair princess. To determine your worthiness, you alone must complete three dangerous quests. If you survive, you and your fellow heroes will then venture into the forbidden Realm of Reflection-where all is not as it seems. There you must destroy Sinestra and rescue the princess from the dark forces of Chaos."
Sounds a whole lot like the nordlander peasant legends quoted from WHFRP earlier:
"What lies within the Witch's Wood is unknown: some have speculated that the elves have no capital, living a nomadic life under the trees. Old books, on the other hand, mention a nameless city of glass deep in its heart, a place that glows with its own light. Whatever the truth, it is certain that neither creatures of Chaos nor Greenskins last long once they enter the Laurelorn, for the elves defend their home ferociously against all comers." page 64 ,Sigmars Heirs WHFRP
City of glass, a place that glows with its own light, sounds like a perfect match for the forbidden Realm of Reflection. The old myths could be true. Sinestra's lair of glass could lie within the kingdom (queendom?) of Laurelorn itself, which lies inside the Empire Provence of Nordland, or adjacent in the marshes to the east (Sinestras stronghold did mention marshes) and the Sea of Claws to the North. Much closer to the Chaos threat of the North, especially if you subscribe to the HQ Emperor is Magnus the Pious and the timeframe of HQ is during his reign immediately after the great war with residual Chaos forces roaming the Empire.
A position in the North next to the sea of claws also makes sense for the Barbarian Quest Pack homefaring whether you play that first or after the Elf Quest Pack by most accounts they go back to back.



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